Breaking: Alex Cobb TRADED to Angels for Jahmai Jones

[HaloMilliVanilli]

I thought I saw somewhere that a portion of the Angels cost on Cobb is going to be deferred.  Does that impact what we can still spend this season or alter what goes toward the cap?

[Stradler]

Hey guys, I bet Cobb is excited by this trade.

[Pancake Bear]

1 minute ago, Lazorko Saves said:

That's a weird misspelling of Teheran.

Teheran fell off. So did Weaver eventually. Maybe it's Cobb's turn. The statement remains true, though, regardless whether you like it or not.

Would you rather a guy like Archer with good peripherals who never seems to actually get results consistent with them?

[Inside Pitch]

6 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

The only reason I said "aside from Teheran" is cuz the boneheads on AW went all snowflakey in the beginning of year trying to justify the only reason why the Angels had the second worst ERA was because of Teheran. 

Man, I typically have a really good memory for stupid comments.  I'm going to have to assume this was said in a thread I didn't read because I just can't see it happening.  There are too many stats juinkies here for people to have not called that out.   What has been pointed out by @Dochalowas this...

 

[Pancake Bear]

2 minutes ago, HaloMilliVanilli said:

I thought I saw somewhere that a portion of the Angels cost on Cobb is going to be deferred.  Does that impact what we can still spend this season or alter what goes toward the cap?

 

[Lazorko Saves]

2 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

Would you rather a guy like Archer with good peripherals who never seems to actually get results consistent with them?

Nah, I kind of like the Cobb deal.  Just poking on the FIP thing.  I can't see Cobb turning into another disaster like Julio did.

I do agree with your point about our rotation not really being all that bad, we just need to lift the floor and we're already better.

Edited February 1, 2021 by Lazorko Saves

[Pancake Bear]

1 minute ago, Lazorko Saves said:

Nah, I kind of like the Cobb deal.  Just poking on the FIP thing.  I can't see Cobb turning into another disaster like Julio did.

I do agree with your point about our rotation not really being all that bad, we just need to lift the floor and we're already better.

I mean, it is probably the riskiest of our SP's and could easily go south like Teheran. Wasn't JT's velocity going south too, though?

The real question is whether or not Minasian has a good eye for pitching. If he does, we could end up sneaky good. If not, it'll be Eppler all over again. It's really hard to judge the pitching acquisitions until we see results.

[Lazorko Saves]

That deferred money *HAS* to coming from Baltimore, doesn't it?  It's deferred from previous seasons.

There is zero chance we are the hook for that, otherwise this beyond Tony Reagins-bad territory.  $20.25 mil plus what we pay him for 2021?  No way that's what we just traded for.

Edited February 1, 2021 by Lazorko Saves

[HaloSpurs]

53 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Was hoping for a better use of this. But might never get the chance.

Cobb's your uncle.

@Lou @HaloSpurs

I feel like this is as good a reference as you’ll ever get 

[Pancake Bear]

53 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Ok, so if Cobb does have a Bundy type of leap in performance, can anyone spot it? 

With Bundy, it was almost immediate. People started posting that if he used his for seamer less and started using his slider and cutter more, that he would be really good. Bundy does just that and is in fact, really good. 

So does Cobb have a simple adjustment like that, that he needs to make? Or is he just sort of who he is at this point?

Surely, getting out of the AL East and in front of a good infield defense isn't going to make THAT drastic of a difference, will it?

The Athletic Orioles beat guy: 

"The only question was whether the oft-injured Cobb could stay healthy, but he had made 29 starts in 2017 and was only 30. Obviously, he didn’t stay healthy, has made just 41 starts in three seasons with a 7-22 record and 5.10 ERA. He made 10 starts in a truncated season last year, going 2-5 with a 4.30 ERA."

If last year was closer to normal for him, shaving of even a small bit from that 4.30 by leaving the East could be a solid enough pitcher. Small sample, though.

[Pancake Bear]

Also, @Second Base, you might like this. From the same article:

"It’s more conceptual than statistical. Cobb’s a legitimate veteran leader. He learned from pitchers such as James Shields and David Price when he was in Tampa and took that role seriously. Some pitchers are labeled as “leaders,” but really aren’t. Cobb, however, loved talking pitching and gave the young guys all the time they needed."

He also notes putting up a 4.30 in the AL East isn't easy. And, I would add, he didn't get the benefit of pitching to the Orioles. 

[Second Base]

4 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

The Athletic Orioles beat guy: 

"The only question was whether the oft-injured Cobb could stay healthy, but he had made 29 starts in 2017 and was only 30. Obviously, he didn’t stay healthy, has made just 41 starts in three seasons with a 7-22 record and 5.10 ERA. He made 10 starts in a truncated season last year, going 2-5 with a 4.30 ERA."

If last year was closer to normal for him, shaving of even a small bit from that 4.30 by leaving the East could be a solid enough pitcher. Small sample, though.

Leaving the AL East and getting in front of a better defense might put his ERA closer to 4.00. If Mickey Callaway has as big of an impact as he had on Everyone last year, he might even drop into the three's if we're lucky.

[Second Base]

1 minute ago, Pancake Bear said:

Also, @Second Base, you might like this. From the same article:

"It’s more conceptual than statistical. Cobb’s a legitimate veteran leader. He learned from pitchers such as James Shields and David Price when he was in Tampa and took that role seriously. Some pitchers are labeled as “leaders,” but really aren’t. Cobb, however, loved talking pitching and gave the young guys all the time they needed."

He also notes putting up a 4.30 in the AL East isn't easy. And, I would add, he didn't get the benefit of pitching to the Orioles. 

All very encouraging. I'm starting to like the acquisition more, just not the price they paid.

[Chuck]

 

[Stradling]

8 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

Also, @Second Base, you might like this. From the same article:

"It’s more conceptual than statistical. Cobb’s a legitimate veteran leader. He learned from pitchers such as James Shields and David Price when he was in Tampa and took that role seriously. Some pitchers are labeled as “leaders,” but really aren’t. Cobb, however, loved talking pitching and gave the young guys all the time they needed."

He also notes putting up a 4.30 in the AL East isn't easy. And, I would add, he didn't get the benefit of pitching to the Orioles. 

So a good clubhouse guy, there’s a shock.  

[Warfarin]

11 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

 

If we end up being on the hook for only 4-5mil of his final year, that's pretty solid IMO.  

The Orioles get a prospect back and find someone to absorb ~1/3 of his salary.  For a team who is not contending at all, getting a prospect back and shedding 5mil (or whatever) of payroll for a guy you are not going to have beyond this year does hold value.

[Junkballer]

4 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

Also, @Second Base, you might like this. From the same article:

"It’s more conceptual than statistical. Cobb’s a legitimate veteran leader. He learned from pitchers such as James Shields and David Price when he was in Tampa and took that role seriously. Some pitchers are labeled as “leaders,” but really aren’t. Cobb, however, loved talking pitching and gave the young guys all the time they needed."

He also notes putting up a 4.30 in the AL East isn't easy. And, I would add, he didn't get the benefit of pitching to the Orioles. 

This speaks to Minasians statements about a players fit in the clubhouse being a big factor for him.  Perhaps he was looking for a veteran who would be more helpful to mentor the younger arms coming up.  It makes some sense to explain why he chose Cobb over some of those cheaper, no trade piece required FAs may have penciled in equal or better stats.  Im on board  as long as he isnt done with the starting rotation and improves the bullpen.

[DMVol]

12 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

 

I guess you have to know how the deferred money is handled but that looks like the O’s wanted Jones pretty badly....

[Inside Pitch]

47 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

I agree. Which is why I don't think this is a bad trade. 

I'm not HAPPY with it, but like someone else said, it raises our floor. 

Look at the stats @Inside Pitch posted.

I hate this addition, mostly because I think they could have done it for cheaper but he helps raise the floor some..   At this point it seems Perry's focus is to add as many redundancies as possible in hopes of avoiding a potential black hole.   You gotta figure RF is next.

[Second Base]

17 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

 

That's fine, it's the deferred money owed that I'm concerned about. 7.5 million in 2022, 4.5 million in 2023 and 2024, and 4.75 million in 2025. 

If the Angels are giving up Jahmai Jones they shouldn't be in the hook for ANY of that, but from previous reports, they are, which would make this an absolutely atrocious trade by any measure. Even if they think Cobb would rebound a bit, to owe him future money is not a good idea at all.

[Stradler]

24 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

Also, @Second Base, you might like this. From the same article:

"It’s more conceptual than statistical. Cobb’s a legitimate veteran leader. He learned from pitchers such as James Shields and David Price when he was in Tampa and took that role seriously. Some pitchers are labeled as “leaders,” but really aren’t. Cobb, however, loved talking pitching and gave the young guys all the time they needed."

He also notes putting up a 4.30 in the AL East isn't easy. And, I would add, he didn't get the benefit of pitching to the Orioles. 

All valid points, the trade isn't as bad as it looks, he's like a pitching coach under the pitching coach, also a pretty reliable starter that should benefit in the AL West.  I think expectations have just be subverted greatly, Bauer is not coming here, it's pretty much a sure thing.

[Stradling]

Just now, Second Base said:

That's fine, it's the deferred money owed that I'm concerned about. 7.5 million in 2022, 4.5 million in 2023 and 2024, and 4.75 million in 2025. 

If the Angels are giving up Jahmai Jones they shouldn't be in the hook for ANY of that, but from previous reports, they are, which would make this an absolutely atrocious trade by any measure. Even if they think Cobb would rebound a bit, to owe him future money is not a good idea at all.

I don’t think you should be concerned with that.  There is no way Arte will take on any deferred money unless the cost to this years team is zero dollars.  

[Angels 1961]

6 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I hate this addition, mostly because I think they could have done it for cheaper but he helps raise the floor some..   At this point it seems Perry's focus is to add as many redundancies as possible in hopes of avoiding a potential black hole.   You gotta figure RF is next.

No 2 additions to bullpen, Petit and Jose Alvarez would be my picks. RF Goodwin back would be nice.

[Hubs]

We also don’t know if they’re sending a lower level prospect back or how the final trade will look, so let’s hold off on the judgements and overreactions 

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

Damn 21 pages worth of heads exploding!!!!....

 

I guess, I will grab my bag of popcorn and go sit on the couch.