Breaking: Alex Cobb TRADED to Angels for Jahmai Jones

[Second Base]

1 minute ago, Angelsjunky said:

I've settled on two possibilities:

1) The Angels are going to trade one of Canning or Barria in a package for someone like Gray.

2) Perry Minasian is not very smart.

What are the other choices? Cobb is 34 and compiled a 5.10 ERA over the last three years in 217 IP. There are tons of guys that could provide those innings or better still available on the market, not to mention Canning, Barria, and probably Sandoval. 

Even if this frees up a starter in a trade, several AAA filler types--Faria, Diaz, Suarez, McNaughton--could probably be as good as Cobb.

Hot take - Minasian knows some things, and Alex Cobb will be every bit as good as Jose Quintana in 2021.

[Warfarin]

7 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yea you have said this a lot this off season.  How do you stretch him out when he is in the bullpen and now he has to start?  He will be in the pen when everyone is healthy, then when someone goes on the IL then he starts, in his first start he shouldn’t be expected to go even 4 innings, because he isn’t stretched out.  Then he pitches maybe 5 innings in his second start.  So basically when we have an injury it is back to having bullpen games.  He can’t be sent down to get stretched out.  That is why you either put him in the rotation or you trade him and get whatever value you can out of him.  

He will likely be stretched out in spring training.

As I mentioned, likely someone will go on the IL and he will be stretched out already and start off in the rotation.  I highly doubt everyone will be healthy by the end of spring training.

And when that pitcher, who is on the IL, is ready to be activated, they can make however many rehab starts they need (likely just 1 if they are only out 10-15 days), then come back in.  Then, someone else in turn rotates out, etc.

The very good teams are pretty good at manipulating the system to do things like this.  Obviously if we have like 10 SPs who can't be optioned, that's a burden, but if we have 7 or 8 SPs (Bundy, Heaney, Quintana, Canning, Cobb, Barria, Ohtani, and maybe someone else we may sign) .. that isn't too hard to manage, especially since Ohtani is a once-a-week SP who has barely pitched and likely won't contribute more than 60-70 IP this year, and even that seems rather dubious.  Sandoval and Suarez can be stretched out in AAA as well.

[Angelsjunky]

2 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

Arte hasn't been burned by any big SP contracts so I'm not sure why he's obsessed with All these 1 year deals for mediocre pitchers.All of these stupid one-year contracts are baffling. Party hasn't been burned by any It’s rather surprising to see Jones included in this sw stock has tumbled in recent seasons, he’s a former second-round draft pick who at one point ranked among MLB’s top 100 prospects at Baseball America, MLB.com and Baseball Prospectus. Baseball America ranked Jones 11th on the Halos’ 2020-21 The 23-year-old Jones went 3-for-7 in a very brief MLB debut with the Angels in 2020, so he’s a departure from some of the Orioles’ other prospect acquisitions. He’s a near-MLB-ready piece that could be plugged into the big league mix as soon as this season. Jones has played second base and center field throughout his minor league career. His bat has stalled a bit in Double-A, where he’s batted .237/.315/.338 in a very pitcher-friendly environment.

Well said.

[Chuck]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Am I the only one that can’t see what Beatles posted? 

He either pasted something with a white text color where there's a white background, or changed the text color accidently. 

Here you go!

Arte hasn't been burned by any big SP contracts so I'm not sure why he's obsessed with All these 1 year deals for mediocre pitchers.All of these stupid one-year contracts are baffling. Party hasn't been burned by any It’s rather surprising to see Jones included in this sw stock has tumbled in recent seasons, he’s a former second-round draft pick who at one point ranked among MLB’s top 100 prospects at Baseball America, MLB.com and Baseball Prospectus. Baseball America ranked Jones 11th on the Halos’ 2020-21 The 23-year-old Jones went 3-for-7 in a very brief MLB debut with the Angels in 2020, so he’s a departure from some of the Orioles’ other prospect acquisitions. He’s a near-MLB-ready piece that could be plugged into the big league mix as soon as this season. Jones has played second base and center field throughout his minor league career. His bat has stalled a bit in Double-A, where he’s batted .237/.315/.338 in a very pitcher-friendly environment.

[ScottT]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[James]

1 minute ago, Chuckster70 said:

He either pasted something with a white text color where there's a white background, or changed the text color accidently. 

Here you go!

Arte hasn't been burned by any big SP contracts so I'm not sure why he's obsessed with All these 1 year deals for mediocre pitchers.All of these stupid one-year contracts are baffling. Party hasn't been burned by any It’s rather surprising to see Jones included in this sw stock has tumbled in recent seasons, he’s a former second-round draft pick who at one point ranked among MLB’s top 100 prospects at Baseball America, MLB.com and Baseball Prospectus. Baseball America ranked Jones 11th on the Halos’ 2020-21 The 23-year-old Jones went 3-for-7 in a very brief MLB debut with the Angels in 2020, so he’s a departure from some of the Orioles’ other prospect acquisitions. He’s a near-MLB-ready piece that could be plugged into the big league mix as soon as this season. Jones has played second base and center field throughout his minor league career. His bat has stalled a bit in Double-A, where he’s batted .237/.315/.338 in a very pitcher-friendly environment.

I preferred it in white text. Thanks

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Chuckster70 said:

He pasted text with a white text color where there's a white background. 

Here you go!

Arte hasn't been burned by any big SP contracts so I'm not sure why he's obsessed with All these 1 year deals for mediocre pitchers.All of these stupid one-year contracts are baffling. Party hasn't been burned by any It’s rather surprising to see Jones included in this sw stock has tumbled in recent seasons, he’s a former second-round draft pick who at one point ranked among MLB’s top 100 prospects at Baseball America, MLB.com and Baseball Prospectus. Baseball America ranked Jones 11th on the Halos’ 2020-21 The 23-year-old Jones went 3-for-7 in a very brief MLB debut with the Angels in 2020, so he’s a departure from some of the Orioles’ other prospect acquisitions. He’s a near-MLB-ready piece that could be plugged into the big league mix as soon as this season. Jones has played second base and center field throughout his minor league career. His bat has stalled a bit in Double-A, where he’s batted .237/.315/.338 in a very pitcher-friendly environment.

Ok, usually when it struggles to load we have a tweet or some type of attachment.  

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

He will likely be stretched out in spring training.

As I mentioned, likely someone will go on the IL and he will be stretched out already and start off in the rotation.  I highly doubt everyone will be healthy by the end of spring training.

And when that pitcher, who is on the IL, is ready to be activated, they can make however many rehab starts they need (likely just 1 if they are only out 10-15 days), then come back in.  Then, someone else in turn rotates out, etc.

The very good teams are pretty good at manipulating the system to do things like this.  Obviously if we have like 10 SPs who can't be optioned, that's a burden, but if we have 7 SPs (Bundy, Heaney, Quintana, Canning, Cobb, Barria, Ohtani, and someone else we may sign) .. that isn't too hard to manage.  Sandoval and Suarez can be stretched out in AAA as well.

Ok and if he is stretched out at the beginning of April that will do us no good at the beginning of May or in June or in July.  

[BTH]

7 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I've settled on two possibilities:

1) The Angels are going to trade one of Canning or Barria in a package for someone like Gray.

2) Perry Minasian is not very smart.

What are the other choices? Cobb is 34 and compiled a 5.10 ERA over the last three years in 217 IP. There are tons of guys that could provide those innings or better still available on the market, not to mention Canning, Barria, and probably Sandoval. 

Even if this frees up a starter in a trade, several AAA filler types--Faria, Diaz, Suarez, McNaughton--could probably be as good as Cobb.

Well, we still haven't seen the entirety of the trade and don't have all the details. We don't know for sure that it's just Cobb for Jones. We also don't know exactly how much money the Orioles are paying down.

Also, it's possible that Perry Minasian is very smart and is actually smarter than the rest of us. Maybe they see something in Cobb that we don't. I'm not saying it's particularly likely, but he has a GM job and we don't so he's done something right.

[Warfarin]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Ok and if he is stretched out at the beginning of April that will do us no good at the beginning of May or in June or in July.  

My rationale is that he will be stretched out in spring training and will likely be pitching in the rotation in April.  He will be taking the place of whoever is injured.   If no one is truly injured, which seems incredibly optimistic given our history, then someone will likely be fighting some kind of "nagging injury" and will be on the IL.  I think you get my point, right?

[Stradling]

10 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I've settled on two possibilities:

1) The Angels are going to trade one of Canning or Barria in a package for someone like Gray.

2) Perry Minasian is not very smart.

What are the other choices? Cobb is 34 and compiled a 5.10 ERA over the last three years in 217 IP. There are tons of guys that could provide those innings or better still available on the market, not to mention Canning, Barria, and probably Sandoval. 

Even if this frees up a starter in a trade, several AAA filler types--Faria, Diaz, Suarez, McNaughton--could probably be as good as Cobb.

When you look at the front office Minasian has put together I am pretty sure you can rule out option 2

[Angelsjunky]

Just now, Trendon said:

Well, we still haven't seen the entirety of the trade and don't have all the details. We don't know for sure that it's just Cobb for Jones. We also don't know exactly how much money the Orioles are paying down.

Also, it's possible that Perry Minasian is very smart and is actually smarter than the rest of us. Maybe they see something in Cobb that we don't. I'm not saying it's particularly likely, but he has a GM job and we don't so he's done something right.

If it is Cobb +$8M for Jones, then it is not smart.

If it was Cobb +$15M for Jones, it would still not be smart as Cobb.

If it is Cobb +$8M + a prospect for Jones, then it depends upon the prospect.

 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Warfarin said:

My rationale is that he will be stretched out in spring training and will likely be pitching in the rotation in April.  He will be taking the place of whoever is injured.   If no one is truly injured, which seems incredibly optimistic given our history, then someone will likely be fighting some kind of "nagging injury" and will be on the IL.  I think you get my point, right?

I get your point, I just think that the whole 6 man rotation won’t really be 6 guys throwing every 6th day.  I think Ohtani will be given every opportunity to start and I believe that we will see off days be our “sixth starter” frequently.  It’s just going to be a weird season.  I agree depth is a good thing, I just feel that depth for the role Barria will be playing in your mind is better suited for someone that can shuffle back and forth from AAA.  

[Warfarin]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

I get your point, I just think that the whole 6 man rotation won’t really be 6 guys throwing every 6th day.  I think Ohtani will be given every opportunity to start and I believe that we will see off days be our “sixth starter” frequently.  It’s just going to be a weird season.  I agree depth is a good thing, I just feel that depth for the role Barria will be playing in your mind is better suited for someone that can shuffle back and forth from AAA.  

I do agree that is the most optimal way to balance it for sure, without question.  I just think, based on our history of injuries, things will ultimately "resolve themselves" in terms of our rotation being overly crowded, so to speak.

[Angelsjunky]

6 minutes ago, Stradling said:

When you look at the front office Minasian has put together I am pretty sure you can rule out option 2

Well as Trendon says, we don't know the exact details of the contract. But what we do know (or think we know)--that it is Cobb plus $8M or so ("more than half") for Jones, then I would question the judgement of that front office. I don't buy the idea that the Angels know something about Cobb. He's a 34-year old who has pitched like a #5 starter for the past three seasons.

The only thing I can see in his record is that he actually had his highest average velocity in 2020, 92.5 MPH. But that's hardly a huge jump from his career 91.4 and it obviously didn't make any difference in his performance, as he's been worse in 2018-20 then he was before.

The guy is the definition of mediocre, and the Angels are just taking on a salary dump. That only makes sense when the team dumping the player is adding a prospect, not the other way around.

Remember that the Angels threw in Will WIlson to dump Zack Cozart. Jones isn't significantly worse than Wilson as a prospect, but they're actually sending him to the Orioles to take on their dump. It doesn't make sense.

So I would expand my previous possibilities to three:

1. Cobb adds another arm, as they have a trade involving Canning or Barria.

2. The Orioles are throwing in a good prospect.

3. Perry and his gang aren't very smart.

Edited February 2, 2021 by Angelsjunky

[stormngt]

2 hours ago, totdprods said:

 

The team's overall ERA when factoring in relief might have been around 4.50, but the rotation?

This was essentially the rotation last year, and this was probably our best rotation in the last several seasons...

1. Heaney (12 GS): 4.46 ERA in 66.2 IP
2. Bundy (11 GS): 3.29 ERA in 65.2 IP
3. Canning (11 GS) and Andriese (1 GS) (12 GS): 4.50 ERA in 58 IP*** 
4. Sandoval(6), Barria (5) and Peters (1) (12 GS): 5.76 ERA in 50 IP
5. Teheran (9), Ohtani(2), and Suarez (2) (13 GS): 14.24 ERA in 30.1 IP 

I tried grouping the guys together to avoid dramatically skewing results, but this is how our rotation split 60 games up last year. 

***This one was the most affected by lumping together pitchers, as Canning was at 3.99 and Andriese's lone start added 4 ER in 1.2 IP, bringing their combined to 4.50. I could've tacked him on elsewhere, but didn't feel right adding to one of the other slots.

Bundy 3.29 Era

Barrira 3.62 ERA

Canning 3.99 ERA

Heaney 4.46 ERA

That courson was pretty solid.  Your post highlights the problem the Angeks had of lack of depth.  

Quintana would be a nice addition for the fifth.   However to add depth we will be replacing Barria 3.6 ERA with Cobbs 4.30.

I can see why fangraphs dropped us from 13th to 16th starting pitching staff.  We got worse on the trade because a better pitcher will be demoted.

 

[Second Base]

I feel like everyone that's waiting for another prospect to be added into this trade is just repeating history.

Remember when Napoli and Rivera were dealt and we knew Vernon Wells was part of the return? Every player was absolutely certain that there Jays were either covering almost all of Wells' contact or that they would add in one of their top prospects like Drabek. 

And all it was was 5 million in top of Vernon Wells. 

You're waiting for something that just isn't there.

 

 

[Second Base]

And that's not to say Cobb is going to be Wells level bad. Not at all. Just, the price is a pretty clear overpay, that's all.

[Lou]

8 minutes ago, Second Base said:

And that's not to say Cobb is going to be Wells level bad. Not at all. Just, the price is a pretty clear overpay, that's all.

You know the final price?

[AngelsLakersFan]

7 minutes ago, Lou said:

You know the final price?

It’s greater than Jones + $500k

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, Warfarin said:

My rationale is that he will be stretched out in spring training 

Tdawg, you got this one?

[Lou]

3 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

It’s greater than Jones + $500k

We won the trade!

[AngelsLakersFan]

If you squint hard enough you can almost see the makings of a serviceable #4 starter. Sadly there isn’t a lot of upside here.  I think this just goes to show that the current market for just about any starting pitcher must be nuts and Minasian is worried about coming up empty.

[Inside Pitch]

Remember 20 minutes ago when the shittiest news of the day was this trade?  

[ELEVEN]

3 hours ago, Second Base said:

Ok, so if Cobb does have a Bundy type of leap in performance, can anyone spot it? 

With Bundy, it was almost immediate. People started posting that if he used his for seamer less and started using his slider and cutter more, that he would be really good. Bundy does just that and is in fact, really good. 

So does Cobb have a simple adjustment like that, that he needs to make? Or is he just sort of who he is at this point?

Surely, getting out of the AL East and in front of a good infield defense isn't going to make THAT drastic of a difference, will it?

Stop throwing his sinker?