Angels are interested in Corey Kluber

[popo85]

Especially if they can get Teheran for a lower deal

[DCAngelsFan]

19 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Sandoval, Rengifo, and Deveaux would be a bit much IMO, but not horrible if it was ultimately those three. Deveaux is pretty redundant, Rengifo is expendable...Sandoval would sting but you have to give up at least something that usually stings a bit.

If Kluber was the top arm, I’d be more hesitant, but if he’s paired with Price, Ryu, Gray, or Bumgarner, I’d be more okay with that price.

I’m guessing Carrasco is being mentioned as a possible salary dump? It’s a team friendly deal but does span several years if I remember and the Indians have the depth to manage without him, and I guess his health and durability could be a concern long-term.

I really can't see including Sandoval - there's risk that attaches to Kluber - at best, he's gone in 2 years.  At worst, Sandoval out-performs him.  

Even if we pick up another FA from your list, they'll be someone trending towards the end of their careers, and we have to think about replacing them as soon as we get them.  

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

31 minutes ago, totdprods said:

He broke his arm on a line drive and had an oblique strain while recovering. He’s been steady as a rock well before then, and we’ve seen similar older vets like Greinke, Verlander, Scherzer maintain. 

For his relative cost - both in prospects mentioned above and salary/length - the gamble is worth it. If he returns to form you just got a legit #1 for less than $40m and all it cost you was two lotto ticket prospects we basically struck gold on from Cron and Maldonado, and a savvy Bahamian prospect that went under the radar. It’d be a shrewd move. But I agree in that I’m needing to know more about our other arm before I pull the trigger. If that’s the cost for our *top* SP acquisition, I think we can aim for something else first. 

Actually he was pretty bad out the gate last year giving up 23 ER in 35.2 innings pitched before taking the line drive off his arm. The strike outs were there but he was also walking guys at about 4x the rate he did the prior year. I’m not saying he’s done and I’d take him at the right price but at 34 his best days may be behind him.  How fast and far he falls is the question.  

[totdprods]

27 minutes ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

Actually he was pretty bad out the gate last year giving up 23 ER in 35.2 innings pitched before taking the line drive off his arm. The strike outs were there but he was also walking guys at about 4x the rate he did the prior year. I’m not saying he’s done and I’d take him at the right price but at 34 his best days may be behind him.  How fast and far he falls is the question.  

It’s 35 innings.

[Lou]

7 minutes ago, totdprods said:

It’s 35 innings.

that's 10 starts for us

[hangin n wangin]

52 minutes ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

Actually he was pretty bad out the gate last year giving up 23 ER in 35.2 innings pitched before taking the line drive off his arm. The strike outs were there but he was also walking guys at about 4x the rate he did the prior year. I’m not saying he’s done and I’d take him at the right price but at 34 his best days may be behind him.  How fast and far he falls is the question.  

From what I remember, Kluber is typically a slow starter, so how he started last year is not anything that crazy.

https://www.letsgotribe.com/2018/4/10/17218806/corey-kluber-is-off-to-the-best-start-of-his-career

"Prior to 2018, Corey Kluber never finished a full first month of starts with an ERA under 4.00. He pitched more than 30.0 innings every month, because he is Kluber after all — even when he struggles he’s going to work through it — but we’ve always just assumed he’d have a bad April. "

 

He also just ran into horrible luck last year. He broke his hand off a come backer and then he had an oblique injury when he finally returned from that injury. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that last year was just a bad year for him due to injuries. If we can get him with out giving up too much, I would love it.

For me, it's between him and Jon Gray. I would love to acquire one of those two.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

17 minutes ago, totdprods said:

It’s 35 innings.

It’s in response to you saying he was hurt last year.  When he was healthy, he wasn’t nearly as effective as he was the prior year. 

[Vlad27Trout27]

I think an Upton for Kluber could be in play, if Upton is willing to be traded. 

The reasons?

 i don't think Cleveland is in a full rebuild, they still have a strong 1-3 without Kluber, with Clevinger, Carrasco and Bieber. Plus they  have there top pitching prospect in Mckenzie close, and have a fair amount of pitcher to plug into the 5th spot. Even if they do trade Lindor, and get someone like Lux and May, these are good pieces and keeps them in contention. 

They always needed offense and an right handed Of, that is a middle of the Line-up bat, which Upton Provides.

Something like

Indians: Upton (57 mil in salaries for the next 3 years), Rengifo/Jones and a Relief Pitcher/ prospect that projects between a starter/relief pitcher

Angels: Kluber and Plutko

 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Vlad27Trout27 said:

I think an Upton for Kluber could be in play, if Upton is willing to be traded. 

The reasons?

 i don't think Cleveland is in a full rebuild, they still have a strong 1-3 without Kluber, with Clevinger, Carrasco and Bieber. Plus they  have there top pitching prospect in Mckenzie close, and have a fair amount of pitcher to plug into the 5th spot. Even if they do trade Lindor, and get someone like Lux and May, these are good pieces and keeps them in contention. 

They always needed offense and an right handed Of, that is a middle of the Line-up bat, which Upton Provides.

Something like

Indians: Upton (57 mil in salaries for the next 3 years), Rengifo/Jones and a Relief Pitcher/ prospect that projects between a starter/relief pitcher

Angels: Kluber and Plutko

 

I really don't see a scenario where they bring on that much money.  Also I am pretty sure Upton is owed $72 million over the next three years.  

[DMVol]

9 minutes ago, Vlad27Trout27 said:

I think an Upton for Kluber could be in play, if Upton is willing to be traded. 

The reasons?

 i don't think Cleveland is in a full rebuild, they still have a strong 1-3 without Kluber, with Clevinger, Carrasco and Bieber. Plus they  have there top pitching prospect in Mckenzie close, and have a fair amount of pitcher to plug into the 5th spot. Even if they do trade Lindor, and get someone like Lux and May, these are good pieces and keeps them in contention. 

They always needed offense and an right handed Of, that is a middle of the Line-up bat, which Upton Provides.

Something like

Indians: Upton (57 mil in salaries for the next 3 years), Rengifo/Jones and a Relief Pitcher/ prospect that projects between a starter/relief pitcher

Angels: Kluber and Plutko

 

Cleveland is trying to move money....Upton for Kluber is in the other direction.....

[ksangel]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

Cots didn't include the $4M bonus he earned for '20 & $21

You are correct. Was only looking at option and missed the increase in salary.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

3 minutes ago, hangin n wangin said:

From what I remember, Kluber is typically a slow starter, so how he started last year is not anything new.

He also just ran into horrible luck last year. He broke his hand off a come backer and then he had an oblique injury when he finally returned from that injury. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that last year was just a bad year for him due to injuries. If we can get him with out giving up too much, I would love it.

In 2018 he had a 2.18 ERA over 45.1 IP through April then an ERA of 1.83 over 39.1 IP in May. I’ve followed him for years because of fantasy baseball and while he has started slow some years 2019 wasn’t pretty. Maybe he was dealing with an injury or still working on things from spring training.  For the right price he’s a great add given what he’s owed but there’s some risk. 

[Rally Gorilla]

Kluber is 33 and coming off broken arm and only seven starts in 2019.    Baseball-reference projects him to pitch 99 innings in 2020.  Our rotation is going to need a lot more help than that.

[beatlesrule]

I still think the Angels should just sign Madbum and use some guys to trade for a younger starter. If the Indians just want salary relief, Kluber should not cost 2 good prospects or players. Age plays a big factor here. Ryu's last 2 years have been really good and no draft pick attached. Madbum has a pick attached but that's not as valuable as the known prospects or players the Indians would be getting for Kluber if in fact they want 2 or more good players.

[Vlad27Trout27]

20 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I really don't see a scenario where they bring on that much money.  Also I am pretty sure Upton is owed $72 million over the next three years.  

yeah its 72 mil, what my trade involves us eating 15 mil. This leaves upton's salary at 57 mil. It kind of matches up with Kluber's Salary for the first 2 years (40 mil) For the third year,  you had a few pieces to offset this last year.

Clevland made a similar trade before as (Bauer trade) will they make a similar trade? i have no idea. Even considering the Bauer trade, it was a bad trade. ! years of Puig, Reyes who is a 1 dimension player, no OBP, ok Average, no speed just a Dh, plus two prospects that look like 4s/5s.    

[Stradling]

If it costs us the prospects that are being mentioned, Rengifo or Jones and Sandoval or something like that, you gotta do it.  Rengifo doesn't really have a spot on the team with the signing of Rendon.  In addition to that, it still allows us to keep all of our other prospects to pick up a real game changer at the deadline if we are in it.  If Kluber is as good as he was in 2018 we have an legit #1.  

[hangin n wangin]

20 minutes ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

In 2018 he had a 2.18 ERA over 45.1 IP through April then an ERA of 1.83 over 39.1 IP in May. I’ve followed him for years because of fantasy baseball and while he has started slow some years 2019 wasn’t pretty. Maybe he was dealing with an injury or still working on things from spring training.  For the right price he’s a great add given what he’s owed but there’s some risk. 

Look at the link I posted. It says, "Prior to 2018, Corey Kluber never finished a full first month of starts with an ERA under 4.00. He pitched more than 30.0 innings every month, because he is Kluber after all — even when he struggles he’s going to work through it — but we’ve always just assumed he’d have a bad April. "

I have also followed him in fantasy baseball for years.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

From 2014-2017 he averaged 35 IP with an ERA of 4.2 in April. His ERA during those 4 April’s was between 4.14 to 4.24 which is extremely consistent. Last year he only pitched 24 innings in April because he wasn’t effective and going deep in games with an ERA of 6.75.  Assuming a player who historically starts slower will always do that is how you end up getting a guy on the wrong side of his career. Again for the right price sure but if the Angels get him I’m not assuming they get the 2014-2017 version, the 2018 version or the 2019 version.  Hopefully they get something in between which is a #3 who gives them 150 or more innings. 

[jordan]

It’s definitely a win if Angels can keep Adell and Marsh through all of this. I could see Marsh being better suited as trade bait at the deadline if a major piece needed to be added. 

[Lou]

Kluber is definitely getting moved.

tweet tweet 

[Reveille1984]

50 minutes ago, Stradling said:

If it costs us the prospects that are being mentioned, Rengifo or Jones and Sandoval or something like that, you gotta do it.  Rengifo doesn't really have a spot on the team with the signing of Rendon.  In addition to that, it still allows us to keep all of our other prospects to pick up a real game changer at the deadline if we are in it.  If Kluber is as good as he was in 2018 we have an legit #1.  

I don't think that package will do it, unfortunately.  I'd pretty much give up anyone not named Adell/Canning for two years of Kluber.  Whether it's Jones, Marsh, Rengifo, etc.  Kluber is going to be a hot trade target with all of the tier 1 guys off the free agency board.

Sure he's a risky acquisition, but there's no sure thing left anymore unless we go after a primo young stud.  

[hangin n wangin]

36 minutes ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

From 2014-2017 he averaged 35 IP with an ERA of 4.2 in April. His ERA during those 4 April’s was between 4.14 to 4.24 which is extremely consistent. Last year he only pitched 24 innings in April because he wasn’t effective and going deep in games with an ERA of 6.75.  Assuming a player who historically starts slower will always do that is how you end up getting a guy on the wrong side of his career. Again for the right price sure but if the Angels get him I’m not assuming they get the 2014-2017 version, the 2018 version or the 2019 version.  Hopefully they get something in between which is a #3 who gives them 150 or more innings. 

35 innings is just not enough innings to say he was a different pitcher, especially after what he did the year before, which was ace like stuff.  Look at how Darvish started the year. People here want Darvish. It was a slow start, in my opinion, nothing more.

The stuff was still there. He just wasn't pitching good. And again, it was only 35 innings.

Also, I didn't assume he would always start slow, I just pointed out that it was common for him. He didn't start slow in 2018, like you pointed out and I pointed out in the article.

[m0nkey]

I’m on page 2 but I would still offer “a lot” for Kluber. I’m still a believer that he’s still got his top notch stuff despite his fluke injuries last year, poor performance in the small sample, and age. 

[Mark68]

2 hours ago, Lou said:

Kluber is definitely getting moved.

tweet tweet 

Tweet tweet

 

 

[Chuck]

The more I think about Kluber and the cost that has been floated around for him, you gotta pull the trigger on this if they're asking for Sandoval (who I really like), Rengifo and Devereux.