Official 2022-23 Offseason Hot Stove Thread

[Blarg]

2 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

It’s still a long term contract for out of house FA, although at least Minasian is very familiar with Swanson.

Fuck Swanson. This guy had one year when his bat didn't suck and that is his walk year. You don't invest big money on a defense only Shortstop that has no value at any other position.

This guy is complete fools gold and everyone will be yelling how Minasian fucked up when next season he drops back to his mid 80's OPS+.

You guys are acting like drunk guys at closing time getting winks from the fat chick at the end of the bar that you ignored all night. Sober up!

[Taylor]

8 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Fuck Swanson. This guy had one year when his bat didn't suck and that is his walk year. You don't invest big money on a defense only Shortstop that has no value at any other position.

This guy is complete fools gold and everyone will be yelling how Minasian fucked up when next season he drops back to his mid 80's OPS+.

You guys are acting like drunk guys at closing time getting winks from the fat chick at the end of the bar that you ignored all night. Sober up!

He's actually been remarkably consistent since 2019, and his 2021 numbers are very similar to his 2022 numbers. 

His OPS+ hasn't been in the 80s since 2019, when it was 89. Since then, it's been 111, 99, and 115.

Outside of the abbreviated 2020 season, 2022 was his best offensive year, but it's not like he increased his output by a significant amount.

[Vlad27Trout27]

Red Sox saw the Judge news and and started dishing our cash. 

[AngelStew43]

According to MLB.com, we had 5 players play SS for us in 2022. Fletcher, Rengifo, Velazquez, Duffy, and Wade. Their combined production was:  .224, 15 HR, 46 RBI.  They K'd 153 times. 

Dansby Swanson played in all 162 games, hit .277, 25 HR, 96 RBI.  He did K 182 times, but I like the fact that he alone would close a gaping hole in our roster. 

The only one of our 5 that should be playing every day is Rengifo.  Fletcher can earn his keep as a utility player, as he did when he first came up.   

[CanadianHalo]

 

I expect another Renfroe/Gio type move and that’ll be that positional player wise

[Hubs]

25 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

According to MLB.com, we had 5 players play SS for us in 2022. Fletcher, Rengifo, Velazquez, Duffy, and Wade. Their combined production was:  .224, 15 HR, 46 RBI.  They K'd 153 times. 

Dansby Swanson played in all 162 games, hit .277, 25 HR, 96 RBI.  He did K 182 times, but I like the fact that he alone would close a gaping hole in our roster. 

The only one of our 5 that should be playing every day is Rengifo.  Fletcher can earn his keep as a utility player, as he did when he first came up.   

Rengfio in his breakout year had a .294 OBP. I would say he is perfectly fine to be given the "Starting job" But I also think Fletcher and he can platoon nicely. Signing a SS, like Swanson gives them the opportunity to have a platoon (with Urshela even) at 2nd ... and 1st base.

[beatlesrule]

Wait, are people here really thinking that the Angels are gonna sign a big FA SS?

[Inside Pitch]

56 minutes ago, Taylor said:

He's actually been remarkably consistent since 2019, and his 2021 numbers are very similar to his 2022 numbers. 

Raw numbers yes, weighted compared to the league -- nope. (as you pointed to).

OPS+

18 - 87
19 - 89
21 - 99
22 - 115

11.4 bWAR  13.2 fWAR (6.4 in 22)

For perspective...  Here's Simmons first four seasons with Angels

OPS+

16 - 91
17 - 102
18 - 108
19 - 78

19.5 bWAR  13.9 fWAR  (look at how much bWAR overvalues defense).

Swanson brings power but, offensively he's been pretty much what Simmons was for the Angels when compared to the league average..  

Good player, but how much does one throw at him, because he's one of those guys you'd be paying for what you expect him to do moving forward because his history isn't that great.

[jsnpritchett]

21 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Raw numbers yes, weighted compared to the league -- nope. (as you pointed to).

OPS+

18 - 87
19 - 89
21 - 99
22 - 115

11.4 bWAR  13.2 fWAR (6.4 in 22)

For perspective...  Here's Simmons first four seasons with Angels

OPS+

16 - 91
17 - 102
18 - 108
19 - 78

19.5 bWAR  13.9 fWAR  (look at how much bWAR overvalues defense).

Swanson brings power but, offensively he's been pretty much what Simmons was for the Angels when compared to the league average..  

Good player, but how much does one throw at him, because he's one of those guys you'd be paying for what you expect him to do moving forward because his history isn't that great.

 

On 12/4/2022 at 2:22 PM, jsnpritchett said:

Swanson's career OPS+: 95

Simmons' OPS+ with the Angels: 96

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

40 minutes ago, CanadianHalo said:

 

I expect another Renfroe/Gio type move and that’ll be that positional player wise

So psr Minasian, we may be looking at a starter, or a RP, or an infielder, but maybe an outfielder.

At least now we know what to expect.

[Revad]

34 minutes ago, CanadianHalo said:

 

I expect another Renfroe/Gio type move and that’ll be that positional player wise

A bat first fourth outfielder, or at least one that’s league average offensively, might offer more bang for the buck than acquiring a SS.  If Rengifo continues to improve and Fletcher recovers a bit and Squid/Soto play well, then the middle infield looks ok.  

[Inside Pitch]

37 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

 

 

Didnt see it -- but youve done this to me before..  Curses!!!

[Vlad27Trout27]

Hows the BP market looking? I know Jansen is signed, but any other good closers out there? I've heard rumors of Kimbrel. Seems like the big guys are signing quick. 

[Chuck]

Winter Meetings tonight is Zzzzzzz

[TempeAngel]

6 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

The Angels this past year had one of the best records in baseball after the first 50 games...

You are proving my point with your case. I said "a case could be made".

The case: In a 60 game season the best teams may not even make the playoffs because a flawed team gets hot early or a really good team has a 3-4 week slump. So to win in 60 games can be more difficult than winning in 162. In a full the season the best and worst teams are fleshed out.

[TempeAngel]

5 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

And it also allowed the Marlins to actually make the post-season.

Right. And a team that was better than the Marlins did not make the post season. Therefore, the shortened season made it more difficult on a better overall team that got off to a slow start. 

The Dodgers were clearly one of the best teams in the league but if they struggled for the first 20-25 games they may not even make the playoffs. In a 162 game season they figure it out.

[BTH]

40 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Winter Meetings tonight is Zzzzzzz

I think everyone dipped after the Rule 5 draft.

For whatever reason, the Winter Meetings end today and not on Thursday.

[Warfarin]

2 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

So psr Minasian, we may be looking at a starter, or a RP, or an infielder, but maybe an outfielder.

At least now we know what to expect.

Notably, he did not say they are looking for a GM  

[Warfarin]

11 minutes ago, Trendon said:

I think everyone dipped after the Rule 5 draft.

For whatever reason, the Winter Meetings end today and not on Thursday.

Yeah, I seem to recall the Winter Meetings usually lasting until Thursday, but I guess not this year.

[Warfarin]

3 hours ago, Blarg said:

Fuck Swanson. This guy had one year when his bat didn't suck and that is his walk year. You don't invest big money on a defense only Shortstop that has no value at any other position.

This guy is complete fools gold and everyone will be yelling how Minasian fucked up when next season he drops back to his mid 80's OPS+.

You guys are acting like drunk guys at closing time getting winks from the fat chick at the end of the bar that you ignored all night. Sober up!

I'd like to think Minasian would know Swanson well enough to know whether he's a worthwhile commitment long-term.  The Angels are being linked to him due to Minasian's "connection," but for all we (or anyone) know, maybe that acutally works against Swanson - maybe Minasian saw enough of him and felt he wasn't worth the long-term investment.  The Braves don't seem to think so, either.

Yeah, I don't know.  I feel SS needs a definite upgrade, but assuming there is some kind of budget involved and finite resources, I'd rather they spend the money elsewhere instead of giving one of the star ones a 30+ mil/yr AAV contract.  Maybe they swing a trade for a cost-controlled SS instead, and in a year or two, with new ownership and a pretty good payroll situation, the new ownership group will invest in a star FA at that point.  

[beatlesrule]

2 hours ago, Trendon said:

I think everyone dipped after the Rule 5 draft.

For whatever reason, the Winter Meetings end today and not on Thursday.

San Diego offered another day but they decided to meet elsewhere.

[CanadianHalo]

 

Pain. Well Perry, I’m impressed you wanted Contreras. Damn shame you didn’t land him but I’m glad to hear you tried 

[ukyah]

8 hours ago, Duren, Duren said:

I have an old PC game called Baseball Manager,that let's you make your own changes, trades and so on if desired. And where you can replay any year in history. Quite a way to get the feel of what the game was like at any given time. 

do you mean baseball mogul? i used to play that game all the time. i loved building the teams.

[CanadianHalo]

I had said a few pages back I wanted a combo of Contreras and one of Bassit/Senga then trade for a SS over one of the big time shortstops. 

We would’ve been set up nicely this season. Not sure where you pivot to from here. If you wanted Contreras that’s a big time blow to your plans. You aren’t trading for Murphy. Stassi is a black hole in the lineup. Contreras OBP plus pop in his bat is such a massive plus from the catcher position. 

[m0nkey]