Angels minor leaguers blast Arte Moreno for terrible living conditions

[Dtwncbad]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

It's so difficult for these guys now. They can't even cook at home because other people live there. 

Don’t forget the horror that some of these places only have one XBox and limited controllers.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Something else to consider here. (And again, Im not blaming or finger pointing).

Minor leaguers fall into a small group of categories. Dominican kid, signed as a FA to whatever bonus. Usually tiny, I assume. 

Has talent, some scout felt he had a shot. But at his core, can play baseball and barely speak english.

High school kid. Same story as above. Either some scout saw something and a team offered a large enough bonus to skip college. Or no college offer, and the bonus to try minor league ball was best you got. Again, your skill is playing baseball.

College player. Either didnt get drafted out of high school, or if you did, wasnt a good enough offer to skip college. Your skill is playing baseball.

My point being is that at its core, the only value these guys offer to investors is the fact they MIGHT be good enough to make it to the show someday. Very few will, and very few will "make it" at the bigs.

The vast majority are never going to provide value to their investor. In the end, being a minor leaguer (unless youre an actual prospect, or a AAAA guy) is a young mans game.... like real young man. If you dont fir into those two categories, you should probably move on sooner rather than later.

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, REDneck said:

This may have already been mentioned, but if I hear Bachman complain about living conditions and nutritional needs not being met after just signing for close to 4 million..Im going to lose my shit!

Yes, I realize they all dont receive that large of a bonus.

This is stupid. So he can’t complain about the conditions his team mates live under because he got $4 million?

[Angels 1961]

6 minutes ago, Stradling said:

This is stupid. So he can’t complain about the conditions his team mates live under because he got $4 million?

Yeah and he was under paid

[Docwaukee]

This is just another opportunity missed.  Of course the org knows the conditions for these guys and it's disingenuous for them to claim otherwise.  Granted they are under no obligation to do anything and minor leaguers should and do know that a lot of this is part and parcel with being a minor leaguer yet it sure would be great to hear about how the org help manage their day to day in terms of their regiment.  

Even if they were given an option to opt into a housing and meal plan that was made available or at least something more thoughtful that could go into the development process.   Even though they don't have to it's yet another thing that could lend to just a better and more fruitful process.  

The priorities for this org often leave me scratching my head.  

 

 

[tdawg87]

I appreciate that people have worked their asses off to make a living. You earned every dollar you have ever made. 

But you're successful, well-off people telling others how to use their money. Not everyone is in the exact same position as you were 20 plus years ago. 

Things are absolutely not the same. Getting extra jobs and "supplementing income" is not as easy as you guys are making it out to be.

You get drafted out of high school. What jobs are you going to get? McDonald's? Walmart? 7-Eleven (that's what I did.)? How much time are they going to be able to spend working 2 jobs to "supplement their income" while training to become professional athletes? Look at them as interns for the Angels. 

Anyway, the point should be that every organization pays their minor leaguers. "They don't have to pay them" is not an argument, because they all do. We want a successful organization right? We haven't in over a decade. Why might that be?We should be treating them better. Other organizations are realizing this. Every organization should realize this. 

We want these guys to turn into stars. Give them everything they need to accomplish that. Better living conditions, better equipment, better training facilities. That's doing what you can to set these guys up for success. If you only want to pay them what you're currently paying them then fine. But at least give them the tools they need to be successful. 

[St1ck]

If you're a late round draft pick that didn't get a big signing bonus you have to know that low pay comes with the territory. A buddy of mine used to sponsor a player from the Quakes every year which consisted of bringing the players groceries and shit like that. If a player is still hanging around low A ball after 4 or 5 years it's time to hang it up because baseball is not going to be your career. 

[DCAngelsFan]

7 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

...

We want these guys to turn into stars. Give them everything they need to accomplish that. Better living conditions, better equipment, better training facilities. That's doing what you can to set these guys up for success. If you only want to pay them what you're currently paying them then fine. But at least give them the tools they need to be successful. 

I wish I could "Like" this a dozen times.

It's not about doing what you're minimally required to do, or what you can get away with.  Hell, it's not even being a super-nice org that does nice things for their own sake (although, there's no reason you can't be kind with no expectation you'll benefit from it)

Consider it an investment in them - like you said, give them what they need to, maybe, someday pay back your investment.  Many of us have probably been there - late with the rent, empty refrigerator, looking for change in the couch so you could buy some coffee - all that stress and grind can't be good for a players development.  Reduce that stress, make sure they have food and other essentials, you'll have healthier, happier players that might someday contribute at the major league level. 

THis org could easily buy some multi-family dwellings, and rent them below-market (or just give them) to players that opt for it (the rich ones can get themselves something better) - you might even get the localities to kick in - (though a players-only housing might not qualify for 'affordable housing' treatment)

c'mon, Arte, be better.

 

[Dtwncbad]

1 minute ago, DCAngelsFan said:

I wish I could "Like" this a dozen times.

It's not about doing what you're minimally required to do, or what you can get away with.  Hell, it's not even being a super-nice org that does nice things for their own sake (although, there's no reason you can't be kind with no expectation you'll benefit from it)

Consider it an investment in them - like you said, give them what they need to, maybe, someday pay back your investment.  Many of us have probably been there - late with the rent, empty refrigerator, looking for change in the couch so you could buy some coffee - all that stress and grind can't be good for a players development.  Reduce that stress, make sure they have food and other essentials, you'll have healthier, happier players that might someday contribute at the major league level. 

THis org could easily buy some multi-family dwellings, and rent them below-market (or just give them) to players that opt for it (the rich ones can get themselves something better) - you might even get the localities to kick in - (though a players-only housing might not qualify for 'affordable housing' treatment)

c'mon, Arte, be better.

 

I am with you.  Angels farm system would be stellar if they made sure these guys slept on full mattresses instead of twins, and never had to share a microwave.

[Lou]

43 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

But you're successful, well-off people telling others how to use their money

Aren't people here telling Arte how to spend his money? 

[Dtwncbad]

3 minutes ago, Lou said:

Aren't people here telling Arte how to spend his money? 

Yeah how stupid to listen to successful well off people on what you should do with your money.  That’s some crazy shit for sure.

[AngelsFaninGA]

48 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

This is just another opportunity missed.  Of course the org knows the conditions for these guys and it's disingenuous for them to claim otherwise.  Granted they are under no obligation to do anything and minor leaguers should and do know that a lot of this is part and parcel with being a minor leaguer yet it sure would be great to hear about how the org help manage their day to day in terms of their regiment.  

Even if they were given an option to opt into a housing and meal plan that was made available or at least something more thoughtful that could go into the development process.   Even though they don't have to it's yet another thing that could lend to just a better and more fruitful process.  

The priorities for this org often leave me scratching my head.  

 

 

Agreed. Knowing a couple guys that have played in the minors, the conditions don't deviate very much from what we've heard here. So for this to be coming from the Angels' organization and not any of the others in the league says that something must be particularly wrong here. 

It's even more evidence that there's some sort of underlying cultural issue within the organization under Arte (as if the Skaggs mess wasn't proof enough). 

[tdawg87]

Just now, Dtwncbad said:

Yeah how stupid to listen to successful well off people on what you should do with your money.  That’s some crazy shit for sure.

Correct. It is.

Because you don't know how to make them successful. You know how to make yourself successful. What works for you doesn't work for everyone else.

And you aren't giving advice. You're just calling them whiners and telling them they need to do what you did.

[Angel Oracle]

25 minutes ago, DCAngelsFan said:

I wish I could "Like" this a dozen times.

It's not about doing what you're minimally required to do, or what you can get away with.  Hell, it's not even being a super-nice org that does nice things for their own sake (although, there's no reason you can't be kind with no expectation you'll benefit from it)

Consider it an investment in them - like you said, give them what they need to, maybe, someday pay back your investment.  Many of us have probably been there - late with the rent, empty refrigerator, looking for change in the couch so you could buy some coffee - all that stress and grind can't be good for a players development.  Reduce that stress, make sure they have food and other essentials, you'll have healthier, happier players that might someday contribute at the major league level. 

THis org could easily buy some multi-family dwellings, and rent them below-market (or just give them) to players that opt for it (the rich ones can get themselves something better) - you might even get the localities to kick in - (though a players-only housing might not qualify for 'affordable housing' treatment)

c'mon, Arte, be better.

 

This

Have to spend money to build long term success.   Other franchises have done this with their farm.

I’m from an older generation, so I understand what some posters are saying.

But, that is not what the thread should be focused on.

Halos need to keep up with the competition, by improving the farm by all means possible.

That is all this thread should be about. 

 

[tdawg87]

7 minutes ago, Lou said:

Aren't people here telling Arte how to spend his money? 

No one is telling Arte anything.

Keep deflecting from the fact that this organization could be run better. Tell me it's being run well. Do it.

[Lou]

8 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

No one is telling Arte anything.

Keep deflecting from the fact that this organization could be run better. Tell me it's being run well. Do it.

Yes, they are. 

Every organization could be run better.

[Lou]

12 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

No one is telling Arte anything

The post immediately before your post: "Have to spend money to build long term success"

There are dozens of other examples, in including Arte building housing for players. 

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

It’s always easy saying how someone else should spend their money whether that someone is making $2,500 a month or they have an investment worth over $1B. 

[Lou]

5 minutes ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

It’s always easy saying how someone else should spend their money whether that someone is making $2,500 a month or they have an investment worth over $1B. 

I've been saying this here for over a decade. 

[Blarg]

You guys do know that Moreno does not own or operate any of the minor league clubs, right? 

[tdawg87]

11 minutes ago, Lou said:

I've been saying this here for over a decade. 

No you haven't. You were literally saying people making $2500 a month should be able to live off that and that families live off that.

You were only defending the billionaire.

[Angels Fan Forever]

42 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Yeah how stupid to listen to successful well off people on what you should do with your money.  That’s some crazy shit for sure.

This is not about you.

[Lou]

4 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

No you haven't. You were literally saying people making $2500 a month should be able to live off that and that families live off that.

You were only defending the billionaire.

I've been bemoaning people here telling Arte how to spend his money since the inception of this board. 

That's the topic i was referring to.

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, tdawg87 said:

I appreciate that people have worked their asses off to make a living. You earned every dollar you have ever made. 

But you're successful, well-off people telling others how to use their money. Not everyone is in the exact same position as you were 20 plus years ago. 

Things are absolutely not the same. Getting extra jobs and "supplementing income" is not as easy as you guys are making it out to be.

You get drafted out of high school. What jobs are you going to get? McDonald's? Walmart? 7-Eleven (that's what I did.)? How much time are they going to be able to spend working 2 jobs to "supplement their income" while training to become professional athletes? Look at them as interns for the Angels. 

Anyway, the point should be that every organization pays their minor leaguers. "They don't have to pay them" is not an argument, because they all do. We want a successful organization right? We haven't in over a decade. Why might that be?We should be treating them better. Other organizations are realizing this. Every organization should realize this. 

We want these guys to turn into stars. Give them everything they need to accomplish that. Better living conditions, better equipment, better training facilities. That's doing what you can to set these guys up for success. If you only want to pay them what you're currently paying them then fine. But at least give them the tools they need to be successful. 

I agree with this. 

I dont think teams are "obligated" to pay better, nor are players "owed" it. 

But if Im investing in athletes, Id spend the money to try to make them the absolute best.

But again, as far as the wages go, at the end of the day, minor league ballplayer isnt a super profitable job skill. I dont see why it would be more than minimum wage, personally, at least at the rookie ball level. Especially considering the vast majority wont advance past it.

[ukyah]

3 hours ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

Its whining because they should know what they're getting themselves into when they sign an employment contract. Signing the contract and then bitching that you don't like the terms is the definition of a whiner. It's a principle thing. Has nothing to do with "tough it out and take what they give you." You're taking what you agreed to receive.

I wonder how many Dominican or Cuban players are complaining. I'm guessing it's either significantly less or zero.

 

I wouldn't have an issue of course if the minor leaguers were taken better care of. In fact it's almost certainly the right decision for the health of the franchise. But some players acting like they've been cheated aren't living in reality.

so, the united states should be more like cuba or the dominican republic? two of the absolute poorest countries in the world. ok, roger that.

the employment contract is exactly the issue. supposedly, and there's plenty of smoke on this issue around mlb already, the conditions aren't living up to what the players expected. when we're talking about professional athletes not being afforded proper living conditions, proper food, etc, then i really don't think that's employees whining. i think that's employees drawing attention to a situation that needs correcting.

once again, the american attitude against employees shines as brightly as ever. look at these soft american snowflakes who want food and a place to live. why can't they be more like the cubans and dominicans? now they know how to be poor and mistreated! keep in mind these are professional athletes. these are kids who have excelled to get where they are at. these aren't people who have made a series of bad choices and are forced to work a menial job.

personally, i think it shows how stupid mlb really is, even if you think of the players as race horses. you've already invested in them to acquire them, wouldn't they be more likely to develop into derby winners if you gave them the necessary food, housing, training to maximize their potential.