This Bullpen is on Eppler

[Torridd]

7 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Will this cause Epp to change his bullpen strategy, going forward?

Succeeded a year ago, but also an abysmal failure so far in 2018.

I don't think so. I like a lot of the arms, but they're being used too often and in pressure situations they're not meant for. Get a Herrera and I think we can right the ship. I like the way Eppler works, but we can't wait around for an internal fix. I don't think one is there.

[Torridd]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

I didn't read through the whole thread, so apologies if it's been expressed already....

I think the pen will be a work in progress, and as bad as it's been this month, it was still awfully effective for awhile, notably when our rotation was struggling. 

Now that the rotation seems to have finally turned a corner and is getting into games deeper on a regular basis, I'm hoping some of the pens current struggles are just associated with a bit of fatigue and overuse to open the year and it'll level out in coming weeks. 

Eppler is also going for it - he'll address the pen either internally through Pena, Jewell, Krol, Paredes, etc. if he feels they're the best route, or through minor acquisitions like he did when he snagged J.C. Ramirez in '16 or David Hernandez in '17, or he may even opt to go big - either way, he's been pretty efficient at finding arms and acquiring the right guys, so I have faith he'll make the right moves in due time.

We're still on pace for just shy of 100 wins.

I hope you're right about fatigue, but it's a big gamble. If you're wrong, we could lose out on a top bullpen guy and have to scrounge around the whole season while we lose games.

[Torridd]

59 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

That’s the thing about last night.

Parker pitched one inning and one pitch over the past 9 days.

If Scioscia tried a 6 out save with Anderson, why NOT a 5 out save with Parker and his 1.80 ERA the past 15 innings?   Altuve kills LHHs.

I guess I have as much faith in Parker as I do the rest of the Round Table.

[Torridd]

19 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Question, is part of the problem that the pen is putting too much pressure on itself because of the recent struggles, and it’s boomeranging out of control?

Would say 3 straight solid bullpen games late help to push them forward?

Good question. I don't know. My gut says these guys just aren't good enough for closing opportunities, at least against the cream of the league. Maybe we can see how things go against Tampa Bay and Toronto and reassess? But if they continue to stagnate that's just more time off the calendar.

[Stradling]

15 minutes ago, Torridd said:

The answer is yes. We'll lose a lot more games like last night if we wait until July. Another thing is we don't want to get caught up in a bidding war. If we're the first to ask, we have a better shot.

I am sure every team calls every team weekly in some way or another.   There’s nothing saying if we offer a 5-10 prospect guy on our list the Royals won’t shop around immediately.   

[Torridd]

5 minutes ago, SuperTroopers said:

I am sure every team calls every team weekly in some way or another.   There’s nothing saying if we offer a 5-10 prospect guy on our list the Royals won’t shop around immediately.   

So you're saying they'll use Herrera like a carrot? That can backfire on them too. The longer they wait the less they'll get for him. 

[floplag]

For me, the question is this, is there any one guy out there that you have faith in or feel good about when they come onto the gameat this point?  even one? 
Yes guys like Percival would occasionally self destruct, but for the most part when they came out of the pen you felt like the game was over, you could relax a little... with our pen today its when you start drinking heavily.

One guy inst going to change that, but having a solid anchor at the back that we know we can could on would make a world of difference and be a huge step in the right direction. 

For all of Epplers brilliance to date he seems dead set on the bullpen being his cheapest component.   Its simply not something he values apparently.  How many years now have we been dumpster diving and clean peanut eating?  Its not an accident. 

Now, i get the whole "the 9th isnt more important than the 7th" thing, i truly do,  BUT... when you construct a rotation as we have with guys that arent innings eaters, the 6th thru the 8th become hugely important.  For me his lack of effort in the pen is so counter intuitive based on our rotation.  It isnt like were going to replace all of them, the logical move is to shore up what behind them. 

We had one of the best in the league this year beaten last night, and gave it away.   We had a rookie beating Cole, let that sink in for a sec all you "we need a starter" guys... and the pen gave it away.   Now we get perhaps the best in the league today.    Its a short series, but if this was the playoffs its the difference between advancing and going home. 

Im not suggesting we sell off the farm, far from it, but this team needs to win now.  selling off parts of it are to me wholly acceptable to get the arms we need.  We simply must upgrade the pen to be considered a post season viable team, period. 

[mulwin444]

1 hour ago, Torridd said:

Who do you bring in? Right now, these guys are spent and a mess. We need competent, fresh meat made even more necessary with Middleton's injury. I think we may have to bite the bullet on a top prospect. Can we really wait until June? 

A righthanded reliever...pick one.  Anyone would have been better than Alvarez in that situation (lifetime .340 .393 OBP .888 OPS against lefties).  Game is on the line at that moment, Alvarez was at 20 pitches and struggling after getting time off for fatigue.  Parker, Bedrosian, Anderson, Johnson...they needed 2 outs to get out of that inning and sticking with Alvarez was not a good option.

[nando714]

25 minutes ago, Torridd said:

So you're saying they'll use Herrera like a carrot? That can backfire on them too. The longer they wait the less they'll get for him. 

Or they give him a QO and he gets paid big for 1 season or they get a draft pick 

[Make Angels Great Again]

Remember when RJ Alvarez, Cam Bedrosian, and Mike Morin were supposed to be our elite 7/8/9 back end?

Sigh...

[Torridd]

10 minutes ago, nando714 said:

Or they give him a QO and he gets paid big for 1 season or they get a draft pick 

I doubt he stays with them. KC is on their down phase.

[totdprods]

I'm really not down with the Herrera trade in May or even (most of) June idea.

He'll cost a Top 10 prospect at a minimum (a cost that may be better utilized later in the season) and you're putting an enormous amount of expectation on one guy to fix the pen - if Herrera struggles, gets hurt, or if anyone else fails to improve or gets hurt, you're right back where you started, minus a prospect and maybe depth depending on who you DFA from our relatively option-less pen.

I really think it's just the staff balancing itself out - rotation didn't offer much help or length in March/April, pen picked up the slack and probably burned themselves up a little bit in the process - now the rotation is leveling out and the pen is still catching its breath, while being expected to deliver in high lev situations. 

[Second Base]

2 hours ago, Torridd said:

This is not Scioscia's fault.

Sticking with Jose Alvarez when it was clear after the second batter that he didn't have it IS Scioscia's fault.  He kept Alvarez in there for another few batters, just long enough for the Astros to stick it to the Angels.  He could've brought in Noe Ramirez, he could've brought in Justin Anderson, he could've brought in Jim Johnson, he could've brought in Blake Parker and we still likely would've won that game. 

His bullpen selection.  

The blame is on Scioscia.

[nate]

There were options to get relievers although we don't know if the terms were unreasonable, but the pen was obviously the weak part of the team going into FAcy, along with the cavalcade of damaged goods in the starting rotation.

Anyway, the pen is definitely holding this team back, but the offense needs to get their heads out of their asses.  Upton is carrying the team right now, others need to step up.  Trout will get his but we need to get used to his performance being down a bit just because teams are pitching around him to the extreme.

[m0nkey]

10 hours ago, Taylor said:

So Scioscia brings in Bedrosian or Johnson, who likely also give up a hit to Altuve. Then, everyone blames Scioscia for bringing in Bedrosian or Johnson.

I would say Altuve gets a hit less than 50% of the time

[UndertheHalo]

4 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

Sticking with Jose Alvarez when it was clear after the second batter that he didn't have it IS Scioscia's fault.  He kept Alvarez in there for another few batters, just long enough for the Astros to stick it to the Angels.  He could've brought in Noe Ramirez, he could've brought in Justin Anderson, he could've brought in Jim Johnson, he could've brought in Blake Parker and we still likely would've won that game. 

His bullpen selection.  

The blame is on Scioscia.

It wasn’t clear that he didn’t have it.  He quickly got ahead of Altuve and others.  

It is unusual that he left Alvarez in vs. the righties but I understand the decision.  Alvarez has had solid numbers vs righties this year.  He’s been steady and reliable this season and he and Parker were the most rested arms.  Upon reflection I probably would have brought a righty in but it’s not an easy or clear choice.  Parker probably but I guess Bedrosian or Johnson would have made sense also.  I would have been saving Andersen for the 9th.  Anyway  not great options.

we just don’t have a good situation at the back end of close games.  

[Torridd]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

I'm really not down with the Herrera trade in May or even (most of) June idea.

He'll cost a Top 10 prospect at a minimum (a cost that may be better utilized later in the season) and you're putting an enormous amount of expectation on one guy to fix the pen - if Herrera struggles, gets hurt, or if anyone else fails to improve or gets hurt, you're right back where you started, minus a prospect and maybe depth depending on who you DFA from our relatively option-less pen.

I really think it's just the staff balancing itself out - rotation didn't offer much help or length in March/April, pen picked up the slack and probably burned themselves up a little bit in the process - now the rotation is leveling out and the pen is still catching its breath, while being expected to deliver in high lev situations. 

Logical, but again a risk. I mean anyone can get hurt including Trout so the injury slant doesn't work for me. Trades are based on risk anyway and I think it's worth the gamble.

[totdprods]

1 hour ago, Torridd said:

Logical, but again a risk. I mean anyone can get hurt including Trout so the injury slant doesn't work for me. Trades are based on risk anyway and I think it's worth the gamble.

Right - but when has Eppler ever really paid a premium or rolled the dice on an acquisition in that way? 

I just don't see it happening yet. The pen is going through some natural regression and challenges right now with Middleton out, Alvarez overused, Anderson a total wildcard, and Bedrosian and Parker starting the year poorly.

A minor pick-up would help. I don't think this pen is so bad that their May/June performance will be the reason we miss out on the playoffs. By late June prices will start to come down, we will have gotten through a draft, and we'll have a better sense on how (and who) to use our prospect chips.

[GrittyVeterans]

We haven't developed a truly elite reliever since K-Rod I'm pretty sure.

That's a little crazy

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, GrittyVeterans said:

We haven't developed a truly elite reliever since K-Rod I'm pretty sure.

That's a little crazy

Blame J. Pierpont Reagins and Dip*ssy, who clearly had no clue on how to build a farm system.

[zenmaster]

What stat (if any) shows how often a reliever comes in and allows inherited runners to score? Seems our RPs are notorious for this. Low ERA but still give up runs every outing almost. 

[Torridd]

I don't believe this counts yesterday's blown save. http://proxy.espn.com/mlb/stats/team?stat=pitching&split=41&type=expanded

We need a closer now.

 

[Taylor]

1 hour ago, GrittyVeterans said:

We haven't developed a truly elite reliever since K-Rod I'm pretty sure.

That's a little crazy

I miss Shigetoshi Hasegawa.

EDIT: Nevermind. Just looked at his stats, and he was way more average than I remember him being.

[Sherlock31]

26 minutes ago, Torridd said:

I don't believe this counts yesterday's blown save. http://proxy.espn.com/mlb/stats/team?stat=pitching&split=41&type=expanded

We need a closer now.

 

7 out of 9......I feel bad for our starters.......

[floplag]

3 minutes ago, Sherlock31 said:

7 out of 9......I feel bad for our starters.......

that, my freinds, is a whopping 22% save %, or to put it another way, second worst in the game.   cle which has blown all 4 of 4
We do have 25 holds, though i cant find a stat of how many hold chances there might have been.