Pujols has been terrible

[Stradling]

Just now, CALZONE said:

I'm not a gambler. I would agree to make a donation to the OC miracle league if I'm wrong. What about you?

Absolutely.  

[Homebrewer]

You should both wire me the money for safekeeping.

[Jeff Fletcher]

32 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

 

1.  Is Albert hurt more so than usual? (personally, I think this question is a good one right now because it addresses the fact that he's clearly struggling and that everyone sees it but it's not directly offensive.  If they don't elaborate on the answer, then I'd let it go.)

2.  At what point do Albert's struggles warrant a conversation about him taking a couple days off or moving down in the lineup?  

Even now, the timing isn't all that appropriate for the 2nd question.  But if he's still struggling when Trout comes back, I think it's fair to ask any questions that specifically relates to the teams performance relative to any specific player.  I want to know what the plan is for this year.  I want to know how we're going to compete and win ball games in 2017.  As long as the questions are focused on the season in front of us, I think that's fair game.  

It's not Albert responsibility to take himself out of the lineup.  

1. This is a question we ask frequently, even of Albert. He generally says "I'm fine. None of your business."

2. As long there clearly aren't better alternatives, there's no point in asking this question. Right now Pujols has a .656 OPS. Cron is at .574 and Valbuena is at .567.

[yk9001]

So Pujols is an "announced" 37 years old, is playing like garbage, physically looks like garbage, and we aren't allowed to ask when he should retire? 

What a joke.

[Jeff Fletcher]

Another thing .... let's not get too carried away with "this is the end of Albert" rather than "this is a bad couple weeks like he, and every player, has."

He has a .468 OPS in the last 59 PAs. In the 48 PAs before that, he had a .988 OPS.

Last year he was .638 for 34 games, then .950 for 23 games, then another slump then another 1.039 for 22 games.

This is how baseball works. You just have to go along for the ride.

Alex Gordon (who many Angels fans were pining over as a free agent) is hitting .196 with a .592 OPS right now. I bet if the Royals released him there would be a whole thread saying "Let's get Alex Gordon!" 

[mtangelsfan]

6 minutes ago, yk9001 said:

So Pujols is an "announced" 37 years old, is playing like garbage, physically looks like garbage, and we aren't allowed to ask when he should retire? 

What a joke.

You really must not have read through this thread.  Question has been asked and answered just a week ago.

[yk9001]

2 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Youll have to ask us this several times. Right now we want EYJ to learn first and replace him. Once he falls to earth and cron gets hot, we'll want cron. If revere gets hot for 9 days in july, well talk about him being a figgins type fast guy at the corner.

The only constant is that this is scioscias fault.

Then how about we get somebody in the off-season for once who can compete for the job.

Or is Pujols allowed to have competition for playing time?

[Stradling]

8 minutes ago, yk9001 said:

 

Or is Pujols allowed to have competition for playing time?

This would be an Arte/Eppler problem and not an Albert problem, if it were to be true. 

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, johndw52 said:

How about this? Give him about 40 M via NDA at end of 2017 and offer options for 3 yrs to become Latin czar of scouting.  Face of Latin baseball so to speak. Also throw in a couple of Mil to his charity. Think that could work?  Be gentle with me please.

Johndw

MLBPA has to approve any changes to his contract..   it would never fly.

[Troll Daddy]

How about let him play out the season and discuss it in the off season like always. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

I honestly believe Pujols would retire if he didn't feel he could play at any acceptable level.

BUT....

I honestly don't believe he will ever think that. I think he'll always feel "if I can get just get through a healthy winter and get my legs back under me, I can be awesome again" or something along those lines.

As for the issue of getting some competition for him, this year they brought in Luis Valbuena, so they had 3 guys for 2 spots. Pujols has been the best of the three. You want to get someone with a big name who is certain to be better than him .... say, trade for Freddie Freeman ... you're going to use a lot of assets to get a guy at a position where you already have someone, and going to be left with other big gaping holes and even fewer assets to fill them. It would like buying a second car when you can't even afford a place to live, just because the car you have is kind of dumpy. 

The best way to go is to fill all the holes around him, since he is basically a fixed piece of the roster. Neither he, nor his salary, are going anywhere.

[yk9001]

27 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

You really must not have read through this thread.  Question has been asked and answered just a week ago.

I know, I know. Read the USA today article.

[Ohtaniland]

48 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

1. This is a question we ask frequently, even of Albert. He generally says "I'm fine. None of your business."

2. As long there clearly aren't better alternatives, there's no point in asking this question. Right now Pujols has a .656 OPS. Cron is at .574 and Valbuena is at .567.

Kendrys Morales' OPS is .785 

[Brandon]

15 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

MLBPA has to approve any changes to his contract..   it would never fly.

trying to think of a time this was even brought up, the a-rod to boston deal that fell through? all parties were cool with the trade, but the mlbpa nixed it because they obviously are shooting for player salaries to rise behind his deal.

i think the closest thing is actually what we are talking about with pujols, where gil meche retired leaving money on the table saying he didn't deserve it and it wasn't fair to the royals to pay him.

[Ohtaniland]

14 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

The best way to go is to fill all the holes around him, since he is basically a fixed piece of the roster. Neither he, nor his salary, are going anywhere.

This ^^^^

@Stradling the OC Miracle League accepts checks. 

[Inside Pitch]

3 minutes ago, Brandon said:

trying to think of a time this was even brought up, the a-rod to boston deal that fell through? all parties were cool with the trade, but the mlbpa nixed it because they obviously are shooting for player salaries to rise behind his deal.

i think the closest thing is actually what we are talking about with pujols, where gil meche retired leaving money on the table saying he didn't deserve it and it wasn't fair to the royals to pay him.

LaRoche up and quit too ..   but like Meche, he retired -- so the MLBPA couldn't force him to play.   If AP retired, they wouldnt be able to do anything either.    But anything that would be a reworking of his existing contract would require approval.

They always use the whole it has to benefit the player BS...

[Troll Daddy]

Yankees were in a similar situation with Arod the last few of years of his contract. 

[Angelsjunky]

Albert will heat up. Last year at this point he was hitting .230/.308/.390 after June 23 game before heating up. Right now he's hitting .232/.280/.376, so not that far off. Chances are he heats up and finishes around .260/.320/.450 with 25+ HR and 100ish RBI. Not very good but not awful, but not worse than what Valbuena or Cron are capable of.

Albert was a truly great player from 2001-2010, then he became a very good player in 2011-12, then an average to above average one from 2013 on. As has been said many times before, by myself and others, he'll keep playing as long as his name is written in the lineup card, and that will happen as long as he's the best available option. Cron and Valbuena haven't done much to threaten his job, and Thaiss is having a mediocre season in A+ as a 22 year old, looking like he's following the Cowart-Ward career path of prospects. Even if Thaiss starts hitting better, he probably won't be in the majors until late 2018 at the earliest, so Albert has at least two more seasons before his job is potentially threatened from within.

What about 1B/DH free agents? This offseason the big name is Yonder Alonso, who had a breakthrough year. My guess is he gets traded at the deadline this year to a team who tries to extend him to a longer contract. Eric Hosmer is the other good hitter available, but he's not great. After those two you have players like Adam Lind, Carlos Santana, Mitch Moreland, etc - decent players, but no one that really stands out. 2018-19 looks similar.

Anyhow, I think Eppler's current plan is to keep playing Albert and Cron/Valbuena for the next year and a half, and hope Thaiss develops. If and when he does, you then see where Pujols is at. If he's still hitting .250ish/.750ish, then he'll probably stick as the DH. If he starts dropping below .700 OPS, it is harder to justify a full-time role, and the Angels either go with Cron, or sign someone else. Maybe he stays full-time for another year or two, then spends his last 2-3 years as a part-time player, retiring a year early to look like the good guy and save the team a few bucks.

[thebloob]

The initial contract to Pujols that he and his wife found so insulting was 5 years long.  Looks like that assessment of his long term viability was spot on.  He could have played out his 5 years, maybe add a bonus year for milestones then ride off into the HOF sunset.  The only thing worse than a professional athlete hanging on too long, is one that hangs on too long for 4-5 years, people forget their greatness and just want them to get the hell out...

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

1. This is a question we ask frequently, even of Albert. He generally says "I'm fine. None of your business."

2. As long there clearly aren't better alternatives, there's no point in asking this question. Right now Pujols has a .656 OPS. Cron is at .574 and Valbuena is at .567.

1.  ok

2.  the point is that some people disagree with that even if the Halos don't.  We already know that Albert get's the benefit of the doubt.  The question is whether there's an end to that or if there is any thought of at least trying something different.  Like Eric Young.  Personally, I'd rather see Cron.  Not many would agree I guess.  

I guess what you are saying is 'why bother' until we actually see it happen and then you'll ask about the thought process after the fact.  

[Angelsjunky]

21 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

2.  the point is that some people disagree with that even if the Halos don't.  We already know that Albert get's the benefit of the doubt.  The question is whether there's an end to that or if there is any thought of at least trying something different.  Like Eric Young.  Personally, I'd rather see Cron.  Not many would agree I guess.  

 

I actually agree, I just don't think it will happen - and Cron isn't doing anything to make it happen - at least until Pujols doesn't just kinda suck, but really sucks.

[tdawg87]

Cron is the type of asshole who will suck balls here, get released, sign with Texas, and then bat .500 against us with 8 HR.

[JustATroutFan]

9 hours ago, Glen said:

I'm sure if asked, Scioscia would say he's going through a rough patch and he's working on some things, but he's a great hitter and we expect him to hit his way out of this soon.  HIs numbers will probably start to rise again once Trout is back.

He wasn't hitting well before Trout got hurt either.

[Brandon]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

LaRoche up and quit too ..   but like Meche, he retired -- so the MLBPA couldn't force him to play.   If AP retired, they wouldnt be able to do anything either.    But anything that would be a reworking of his existing contract would require approval.

They always use the whole it has to benefit the player BS...

nice pull forgot about laroche.

speaking of re-working, i always have this thought of someone replicating the bobby bonilla scenario......

[arch stanton]

5 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

Sorry to disappoint you but I had a whole career in sports communications in my twenties and spent plenty of time talking to future hall of gamers fave to face.  The main reason I left the business was money.  But one thing I learned that really disappointed me was the number of people in that business that were intimidated by the players or that very much seemed to care more about being accepted by the players than asking the hard question.

There was always that guy in the room or more than one.  It was pretty lame.

After reading your posts, the most shocking thing in this thread is learning that you've already passed your twenties