Pujols has been terrible

[Blarg]

Yup, it's gotten that bad.

[Docwaukee]

2 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

What is most worrisome about Pujols is that he usually heats up by now - often in May or certainly by June. I wonder if this is simply the new norm, which means he really shouldn't be a regular.

I can't help but wonder when major league GMs are going to start realizing that mega-contracts for 30-something big, fat first basemen are not good ideas (Pujols, Howard, Fielder, soon Cabrera).

Good chance he gets over 100k for the first time in his career with the fewest walks in any of his full seasons.  With his legs, it was quite remarkable that he's been as productive as he has the last 3 years.  He's just not a very good hitter anymore.  16.3% line drive rate.  15th lowest in baseball.  Not that he can't be effective with a low LD rate, but with a 10.9% hr/fb rate, that's not much of a recipe for success.  

I know you've seen me mention this before, but the guy was line to line from the day he walked on to a major league field for the first time.  Then in 2009, he started to lose the ability to his hrs to RF which got progressively worse in 2010 and 2011.  Then he signed with the halos prior to 2012 moving to a home park which punishes balls hit to RF.  But the biggest thing is that split second cheat he started to incorporate which has led to a substantial decline in plate discipline.  At an unprecedented rate really.  He actually still does well on balls in the zone.  

His out of zone swing rates are as follows:

Cards 2002-2007: 15.0, 22.4, 17.3, 17.8, 19.2, 17.3

Cards 2008, 2009:  21.4, 22.7

Cards 2010, 2011:  26.7, 31.0

Angels 2012-current:  35.6, 33.4, 32.4, 31.2, 32.1, 33.7.  

The other problem is that his out of zone contact rates have actually gone up.  

This year has been just a mess for him though.  Now on top of the above, his contact rate is down and his swinging strike rate is up to the highest it's ever been.  Maybe he gets hot here at some point, but his advanced metrics show a trend that is going to be difficult to recover from.  

[Ohtaniland]

22 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

Good chance he gets over 100k for the first time in his career with the fewest walks in any of his full seasons.  With his legs, it was quite remarkable that he's been as productive as he has the last 3 years.  He's just not a very good hitter anymore.  16.3% line drive rate.  15th lowest in baseball.  Not that he can't be effective with a low LD rate, but with a 10.9% hr/fb rate, that's not much of a recipe for success.  

I know you've seen me mention this before, but the guy was line to line from the day he walked on to a major league field for the first time.  Then in 2009, he started to lose the ability to his hrs to RF which got progressively worse in 2010 and 2011.  Then he signed with the halos prior to 2012 moving to a home park which punishes balls hit to RF.  But the biggest thing is that split second cheat he started to incorporate which has led to a substantial decline in plate discipline.  At an unprecedented rate really.  He actually still does well on balls in the zone.  

His out of zone swing rates are as follows:

Cards 2002-2007: 15.0, 22.4, 17.3, 17.8, 19.2, 17.3

Cards 2008, 2009:  21.4, 22.7

Cards 2010, 2011:  26.7, 31.0

Angels 2012-current:  35.6, 33.4, 32.4, 31.2, 32.1, 33.7.  

The other problem is that his out of zone contact rates have actually gone up.  

This year has been just a mess for him though.  Now on top of the above, his contact rate is down and his swinging strike rate is up to the highest it's ever been.  Maybe he gets hot here at some point, but his advanced metrics show a trend that is going to be difficult to recover from.  

Maybe he gets hot??

If I had a dime for every time that has been said.

Albert's tenure as an Angel has been one issue after another. The slow starts, the knee surgery, the Plantar's Fasciitis in both feet, the hamstrings, having to hit behind Trout, no playoff wins, the constant scuffling and now that he's finally healthy he's toast as a player. 

4 more years of this at $114M

[Angelsjunky]

@Dochalo, your analysis just supports how clueless Moreno/Dipoto were in their inability to look below the surface. A good front office notices these trends and doesn't offer 10/$240MM for a 32 year old who is clearly showing signs of decline. @CALZONE gets crap for beating a dead horse, but that horse is stinking up the joint and only getting worse, so it is hard to blame him.

[Stradling]

6 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

@Dochalo, your analysis just supports how clueless Moreno/Dipoto were in their inability to look below the surface. A good front office notices these trends and doesn't offer 10/$240MM for a 32 year old who is clearly showing signs of decline. @CALZONE gets crap for beating a dead horse, but that horse is stinking up the joint and only getting worse, so it is hard to blame him.

It's not hard to blame him at all.  If he kept his horse beating to Albert threads it would be fine, but when he decides to litter every thread with it, it's just too much.  

[eligrba]

The Angels are paying the money, regardless of Pujols' performance.

The problem is the real possibility of the Angels continuing to play him regardless of Pujols' performance.

[Ohtaniland]

57 minutes ago, eligrba said:

The Angels are paying the money, regardless of Pujols' performance.

The problem is the real possibility of the Angels continuing to play him regardless of Pujols' performance.

If Albert were to decide to hang them up he would definitely demand a final year bye-bye tour still attached to Trout's ass. So this problem is not going away anytime soon.

[fan_since79]

First six in the order should go like this:

Maybin, Calhoun, Trout, Escobar, Simmons, Pujols.

But that will never happen, not ever.

 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, fan_since79 said:

First six in the order should go like this:

Maybin, Calhoun, Trout, Escobar, Simmons, Pujols.

But that will never happen, not ever.

 

I would even put Maldonado ahead of Albert the way Albert has been since Trout has been gone.  

What will happen, Albert will hit behind Trout.  Hopefully that improves Albert's bat.  If it does, then that's what they should do. If it doesn't then he should be moved down.  

[Dick B Back]

18 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Don't be a dick, dick.

With all due respect.

I always like double dick posts.

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, eligrba said:

The Angels are paying the money, regardless of Pujols' performance.

The problem is the real possibility of the Angels continuing to play him regardless of Pujols' performance.

or not finding an adequate replacement because he's still 'productive'.  

[yk9001]

5 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

or not finding an adequate replacement because he's still 'productive'.  

Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding!

Its an incestuous circle.  We never get a replacement for him because he is albert pujols.  Then, he sucks, and the nutswingers say "who do we have to replace him?"

[Stradling]

I think next year we will see another 1st baseman brought in, unless they hand over the full time job to Cron.  What I don't really want is we sign a LFer and then go with Cron at 1B, Cowart at 2B and Valbuena at 3B.  That really isn't an improvement.  I do like a couple of other peoples ideas of signing two outfielders, Cain and Maybin, something like that and moving Calhoun to 1B.  

[Jeff Fletcher]

47 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

or not finding an adequate replacement because he's still 'productive'.  

It's hard to replace him when you still have to pay him.

If you put him on the bench and have some other DH you're paying $10-20M, then you're essentially paying $35-45M for one spot in the lineup, all the while having gaping holes in other spots because you spent so much on one. 

The only "solutions" are...

1. Pujols plays better 

2. Pujols retires

3. The Angels farm system improves enough so they can put so many cheap, good players around him that they can pay him $25M to sit on the bench because they're only paying $500K to the guy who's playing. 

[Ohtaniland]

2 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

It's hard to replace him when you still have to pay him.

If you put him on the bench and have some other DH you're paying $10-20M, then you're essentially paying $35-45M for one spot in the lineup, all the while having gaping holes in other spots because you spent so much on one. 

The only "solutions" are...

1. Pujols plays better 

2. Pujols retires

3. The Angels farm system improves enough so they can put so many cheap, good players around him that they can pay him $25M to sit on the bench because they're only paying $500K to the guy who's playing. 

There's no real solution but to buy him out. If the Angels are serious about moving forward and contending they need to graciously call him in like the Yankees did with A-Rod. The Albert Pujols post St. louis greatest player in somebody else's generation experiment is over, it didn't work and both sides need to recognize that. 

 

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

There's no real solution but to buy him out. If the Angels are serious about moving forward and contending they need to graciously call him in like the Yankees did with A-Rod. The Albert Pujols post St. louis greatest player in somebody else's generation experiment is over, it didn't work and both sides need to recognize that. 

 

There is no reason to do that.  This team isn't one player away from being a great team.  This team isn't 30 million in salary away from being the Cubs or Astros.  His play doesn't have a negative affect on anyone other than fans.  It doesn't bleed over to the other players except in fans minds.  He will retire before the end of his contract, I could be wrong, but I truly believe that for reasons I have given numerous times.  Hell, you think he is an egotistical number seeker, if that is true, he absolutely knows his numbers are bad and won't continue.  If I had to guess he is looking for hit number 3000, and after that I wouldn't be surprised to see him retire at the end of that season.  I highly doubt he needs some year long farewell tour, that you think he wants or needs.  Would the Angels think he needs it, maybe, to increase attendance.  

[nate]

No chance Pujols retires before his contract is up.

[Stradling]

Also the A-Rod comparison doesn't really hold water.  The guy tested positive and was suspended.  He took up legal action against his own team.  He was hated by his own team mates and the Yankees had other players to take his place.  

Strange that a team can have players that are expensive like Jeter, Arod, Tex, Elsbury, McCann, CC and Tanaka and still have a minor league system.  Maybe the high priced players aren't the problem and scouting was the problem.  

[Stradling]

Just now, nate said:

No chance Pujols retires before his contract is up.

Ok

[Ohtaniland]

9 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Also the A-Rod comparison doesn't really hold water.  The guy tested positive and was suspended.  He took up legal action against his own team.  He was hated by his own team mates and the Yankees had other players to take his place.  

Strange that a team can have players that are expensive like Jeter, Arod, Tex, Elsbury, McCann, CC and Tanaka and still have a minor league system.  Maybe the high priced players aren't the problem and scouting was the problem.  

I'll buy your take on the A-Rod situation. He was not a good character guy. I just think carrying Albert is a sure sign that the Angels aren't serious about moving forward and establishing a winning formula. They're either afraid to insult him or maybe he's close enough to Arte that he's untouchable. I don't think it's very difficult to find a productive DH but maybe Eppler's been instructed not to look for one.

[UndertheHalo]

I think we ought to stop obsessing over the Pujols situation.  It is what it is.  I think we should be a lot more concerned with whether we can trade some of the not completely worthless players for something that may be useful in the next year or 2.  Escobar, Bedrosian, Parker possibly Maybin.   

I know I'm a lot more interested in those possibilities. The Angels are just going to have to assume living with the Pujols burden.  We all knew it would end up like this.  We just didn't get any of the seasons we were hoping for and he's become worthless a year or so ahead of schedule.

also Pujols would be a f***ing moron to retire before that contract is over.  Who the hell walks away from 20+ million a year cuz "pride".  The Angels are going to pay every cent of that deal.  

 

Edited July 7, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[CanadianHalo]

The odds of Pujols retiring before his contract is up are the same as Stradling not quoting every single one of Calzone's posts.

We're f*cked.

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, CanadianHalo said:

The odds of Pujols retiring before his contract is up are the same as Stradling not quoting every single one of Calzone's posts.

We're f*cked.

So the same odds as Ben Revere being better than Maybin?

[CanadianHalo]

Just now, Stradling said:

Says the guy who was convinced Ben Revere was better than Maybin. 

Revere's heating up and Maybin is cooling off lately, season isn't over!

[Dick B Back]

Same odds of Steve Finley making a comeback.