Done: Lester and Gomes from the Red Sox to A's for Yoenis Cespedes

[gotbeer]

i love the stat monkeys attacking me....

one question.. before this trade who was the one player on the As that the other team was most afraid of either with the bat or on defense?  The face of the franchise so to speak.

im not talking WAR or any other stats for christs sake... but in that sense yes it is the same as us loosing Trout

Most baseball fans that dont subscribe to BP would have a hard time naming another A at this point.

It isnt that big a leap regardless of how much you wanna make it one...

to be clear i did not say they were of the same value statistically... happy?

 

Donaldson.

[tdawg87]

You guys are jerks. You're gonna make flop quit the thread.

[ukyah]

ignoring the bickering back and forth. i'd just like to say, this trade blows my mind. thanks billy, you're good for baseball.

[Butcher'd]

We're so ****ed

[HaloMagic]

If our offense is not on fire, i just hope they dont have an arm in left field that gets our players out at home every single time....oh wait. they don't anymore.

Yep, now they have a pitcher who won't give up the double to begin with.

Plus this move means Reddick plays more now. So they still have someone to gun people out. Only difference is Reddick can actually field his position, too. To get an idea of the overall difference in these two players defensively:

Since the start of 2012

Cespedes

UZR - 1.2

DRS - 2

Reddick

UZR - 38

DRS - 40

That includes Cesepedes' assists.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Well yeah, I guess losing Cespedes is kind of like losing Trout.

Just not in any sort of way that has anything to do with talent or on-field value to a baseball team.

....admit it. You almost posted about race.

[bloodbrother]

Yep, now they have a pitcher who won't give up the double to begin with.

Plus this move means Reddick plays more now. So they still have someone to gun people out. Only difference is Reddick can actually field his position, too. To get an idea of the overall difference in these two players defensively:

Since the start of 2012

Cespedes

UZR - 1.2

DRS - 2

Reddick

UZR - 38

DRS - 40

That includes Cesepedes' assists.

 

Stop posting statistics to prove your point, stat monkey!

[Docwaukee]

so wait.  I am getting the impression that people think the A's are going all in.  

 

On paper, I really don't think this does much for them for the rest of the regular season.  It just makes their playoff rotation ridiculous.   It gets them back to where they were when they were getting very good and probably unsustainable performances from Milone and Pomeranz.  Maybe a little better every 5th day.  The offense will be a little worse but not hugely.  Again, on paper.  

 

But overall, I think this is a very risky move.  Above and beyond the typical 'all in' type deadline deal.  They traded a fan favorite.  Probably their most marquis player and a fixture on the major league club.  Maybe it affect the clubhouse, maybe it doesn't, but I think it has the potential to.  That's the risk you take by moving a somewhat important everyday player from a lineup that has been successful.  

[Butcher'd]

I'm sorry, but we're not ****ing with Samardzija, Lester, Kazmir, Gray...as much as I love our team it's just not happening

[Section517]

Any chance a Reader's Digest version of this thread can be composed for the AngelsWin members who are gainfully employed?  I just came out of a meeting and the thread grew another 3 pages.     

[Mad5577]

Huh! the Dodgers say hi!

Dodgers have better 1-2 than As, but not sure about 3-4. Ryu is ok, and i think in a 7 game series, your top 3 is enough.

in addition to that i think the Dodgers have a better lineup than the As especially now. since As traded their cleanup hitting, and the Dodgers are getting productions from Kemp

[floplag]

I bet Josh Donaldson or Brandon Moss were more feared than Cespedes. Not that it matters, though. Whether the player is feared or not it still counts as a hit if it lands fair and it's still a home run if it's over the fence. How feared a player is is completely irrelevant.

 

Look im not knocking Moss or Donaldson, both are great players, no question, but they have certainly benefited from Cespedes presence in that lineup

Ill bet you right now thier numbers go down, maybe not a ton mind you as both are quality players, no question, im not bashing them, im just saying that Cespedes was the presence in that lineup.. the one guy that opposing pitchers worked around or had to deal with.  Gomes or a platoon is not going to give them that.

If you think that irrelevant then i dont know hat to say to that.  To each their own i guess, but its the difference between playing the game and reading the stats.

[Cdaniel]

so wait. I am getting the impression that people think the A's are going all in.

On paper, I really don't think this does much for them for the rest of the regular season. It just makes their playoff rotation ridiculous. It gets them back to where they were when they were getting very good and probably unsustainable performances from Milone and Pomeranz. Maybe a little better every 5th day. The offense will be a little worse but not hugely. Again, on paper.

But overall, I think this is a very risky move. Above and beyond the typical 'all in' type deadline deal. They traded a fan favorite. Probably their most marquis player and a fixture on the major league club. Maybe it affect the clubhouse, maybe it doesn't, but I think it has the potential to. That's the risk you take by moving a somewhat important everyday player from a lineup that has been successful.

This

[The God of Runs]

When CJ Wilson comes back, it'll be like we traded for a starter

[arch stanton]

They're all good but still beatable. We win 8 of the 10 head-to-head and get on with it.

[ScottT]

I think the A's made a decent move, but I think people put too much stock in individual players, whether they are relief pitchers, position players, or starters.

This deal doesn't help the Angels chances, but it doesn't kill their chances either. It probably doesn't make as much of a difference as people think.

The performances of guys like CJ Wilson, Josh Hamilton, Brandon Moss, and Derek Norris will have a big impact, too. You never know how individuals will perform in the short run.

[ScottT]

Dave Cameron tweet

@DCameronFG: This morning, our playoff odds model gave A’s 70% chance of winning the AL West. After Lester trade: 71%. http://t.co/qAXLjWhQEl

[Docwaukee]

I actually think boston did well here.  They got a solid major league OFer and they will probably re sign lester anyway.  They already have an excellent farm system and they need major league talent for next year.  Proven talent.  Their current OF blows.  They are not a franchise that is going to sit around and wait for a bunch of guys to develop.  This is just one less off season move that they have to worry about.  They have the farm and money to do anything they want at this point and I think they are going to be very active in improving next years team in a pretty wide open division.  

[Angel Oracle]

I just hope it's not the 2008 Lester, who basically toyed with our lineup in the ALDS.

[floplag]

OK well i guess we might as well give up then right... is that the consensus? 
Any attempt at all to spin this as anything other than doom results in personal attacks so.. does that sum it up? 

 

[WallyWorld]

not saying this necessarily means anything, but found it interesting . .. 

 

Not Arte Moreno â€@NotArteMoreno  1h  

 More

“@JaneMLB: A’s were 228-131 with Cespedes in the starting lineup, 28-44 without.” I like this stat. A lot.

[Stradling]

This question is to spark conversation and not to sound like a homer. Should Billy Beane get as much crap for giving up so much of the future for the three starters he acquired in the last month as Dipoto did for giving up 6 rondons for Street and Thatcher? Granted Lester has more value than Street, but at least we have Street next season. Is there ANY hope at all for an A's fan that Lester will be able to be re-signed? My guess is the chances are less than zero percent he signs with Oakland. One last question, do we even know if Lester can grow a disgusting beard?

[RePLAY]

Yep, now they have a pitcher who won't give up the double to begin with.

Plus this move means Reddick plays more now. So they still have someone to gun people out. Only difference is Reddick can actually field his position, too. To get an idea of the overall difference in these two players defensively:

Since the start of 2012

Cespedes

UZR - 1.2

DRS - 2

Reddick

UZR - 38

DRS - 40

That includes Cesepedes' assists.

Cool...you are right...i'll worry about Lester every 5 days.

[sneaky_flute]

not saying this necessarily means anything, but found it interesting . .. 

 

Not Arte Moreno â€@NotArteMoreno  1h  

 More

“@JaneMLB: A’s were 228-131 with Cespedes in the starting lineup, 28-44 without.” I like this stat. A lot.

He was able to decode all the signs from opposing teams. He's kind of like that Indian from the World War II movie starring Nicholas Cage. 

[bloodbrother]

OK well i guess we might as well give up then right... is that the consensus? 

Any attempt at all to spin this as anything other than doom results in personal attacks so.. does that sum it up? 

 

 

No