Are the Angels a dysfunctional organization?

[Angelsjunky]

In a chat earlier today, Fangraphs writer Dan Szymborski included the Angels in a group of the "five most dysfunctional organizations." My first response was surprise. I wasn't offended, nor did I automatically agree or disagree. I just didn't really consider the Angels org to be especially dysfunctional, at least with Eppler at the helm.

But I thought it would be worth considering why Szymborski included the Angels.

First of all, "dysfunctional" doesn't mean bad. If it were to mean bad, the Angels wouldn't be on that list. They have been mediocre, but generally not bad - and if he meant bad, he'd have included the Orioles (who probably belong on that list, anyway).

The other teams he included were the Rockies, Marlins, Royals, and Mets. I don't follow any of these orgs, so don't know why he included them. The Marlins I understand. They aren't really a baseball franchise. For the first decade or so of their interest, they had an interest strategy that yielded two World Series trophies, one in 1997--just four years after their inception--and then again in 2003. If I remember correctly, what they did was suck, get good draft picks and make a few savvy free agent signings and trades, then win a World Series, sell off all their free agents for prospects, then do the same thing. It was a boom-bust cycle that worked twice. but since 2003 they have not only managed to avoid the postseason, but their best year was only 87 wins in 2009; since then they haven't finished above .500 even once. They've had some really good young players, but traded most of them off when they got expensive. Now they're owned by Derek Jeter, who seems to be starting from square one, but without getting the prospects in return for his former stars that he should have.

So I get the Marlins. The Royals I get, too. They were really good for a couple years but didn't find a way to continue it. The Rockies, I suppose. They haven't really blossed as a franchise, only ever flirting with getting there. In a way they remind me a bit of the Rangers, but as a younger franchise.

Which brings me to the Mets. I have made the perhaps too obviously comparison, that

Mets : Yankees : New York :: Angels : Dodgers :: Los Angeles

Like the Angels, the Mets have won the World Series, although twice, once in 1969 (the Miracle Mets) and once in 1986 (Bill Buckner for the win). Unlike the Angels, they've made the WS five times - including twice in the last two decades, losing to the Royals in 2015 and the Yankees in 2000. Like the Angels, the Mets are rarely terrible but frequently--even usually--mediocre. There is just a pathetic, "almost good" vibe around the Mets franchise, like a team that should be better than it actually is. Sort of like the Angels.

Which brings me back to the Angels, our team. Is the organization dysfunctional? And why did Szymborski include the Angels, presumably relatively quickly?

My guess is that it is because they have the best player of the generation, but haven't shown anything for it. Whether that is fair or not, that is a common perception. I think also the fact that they were really good from 2002-09, but haven't been able to return to being consistently good.

But I think their dysfunctionality can be best expressed by the following. Other than 2014 when the Angels won a rather flukey 98 games, from 2010 to the present--with 2019's 55-52 record extrapolated to a full season (83-79), the Angels have won between 74 and 89 games. In other words, they never been terrible, but never been really good. They've been consistently mediocre to kind of good, which is an awful trap to find yourself in.

Here are the win totals from 2010-19: 80, 86, 89, 78, 98, 85, 74, 80, 80, 83*.

Look at the trajectory. First of all, Trout was called up in late 2011, that 86-76 season. The Angels made some big splashes in 2012 and won a few more games, but missed the playoffs despite a late season surge. Then they collapsed in 2013, when Albert Pujols had the worst season of his career for the third year in a row and suffered with injuries, and the Angels simply couldn't put together a good pitching staff. They tried to fix things by signing...Josh Hamilton, but did win 98 games despite that - partially due to the emergence of Garret Richards and Matt Shoemaker. 

But the team has been floundering since, collapsing into a 74-88 hole in 2016, which led to the departure of Jerry Dipoto. In the last almost three years under Eppler, the team has been mediocre, with no signs of significant improvement in the win-loss column.

But there is deeper change. Two or three years ago the farm system was considered the worst in baseball, the worst Keith Law had ever seen. Now it is considered at least middle of the pack, if not upper middle. But for whatever reason, Eppler hasn't been able to patch the leaks, and when he patches one leak another opens up. Perhaps that is what Szymbrowski means by dysfunctional. Of course that's just par for the course of a baseball organization, and I'd like to think that the overall trajectory is positive. But the bottomm line is that at least right now, Eppler has just continued bailing water without outward, noticeable progress. So there is dysfunction in that. Until he fully corrects the mismanagement of the Reagins-Dipoto years, it might seem like the org is dysfunctional, and that might take another year or two.

I suppose my overall feelind, in conclusion, is that the org is somewhat dysfunctional, although less so than it was under Jerry Dipoto. But Eppler--while correcting course somewhat--still manages to make his own mistakes that exacerbate the dysfunctionality. But where he's different than Reagins or Dipoto is that his mistakes tend to have shorter impact. So far there's been no Vernon Wells, no Albert Pujols or Josh Hamilton. So he gets the benefit of the doubt, in my mind, at least for another year or two.

OK, enough words. What say you? Is the organization dysfunctional? If so, in what way? Is it becoming less dysfunctional?

[Docwaukee]

Dysfunctional is two words. 

[tdawg87]

This thread is boring. Can we go back to shitposting about Upton?

[YouthofToday]

Angels were pretty dysfunctional under Scioscia/Reagins and Scioscia/DiPoto.

i don’t get the argument for now. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

3 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

Dysfunctional is two words. 

Dys.functional

[2112]

I think the organization was worse than all of us anticipated.  Any amount of glue, clean peanuts, etc. won't hide that fact.

It has been a long slow build.  But at least it was done without tanking.

 

[Jason]

I don't know about the org as a whole but the current pitching staff is highly dysfunctional. 

[Homebrewer]

The hardcore fan base certainly is.

[eligrba]

.....which explains why Arte lowered the beer prices. 

[failos]

NO

[Inside Pitch]

34 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

Dysfunctional is two words. 

Im going to make a second account and up vote all your stuff...

[Broad Street]

This forum is dis functional 

[Broad Street]

Just now, Inside Pitch said:

Im going to make a second account and up vote all your stuff...

Are you sure this isn’t the second account?

[Lou]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

Im going to make a second account and up vote all your stuff...

perv 

[ten ocho recon scout]

I think its a little harsh.

Like @YouthofToday mentioned (and where the hell have you been?), it was very true a few years ago. Since? No.

When eppler came in he had a plan. In dipotos defense, he inherited a good team with some flaws. Yes, he shit the bed hard, but he also was under the gun to win a ring. The big problem was that in doing so, he destroyed the org, at the big league level and in the minors.

Eppler comes in, and its like he married the divorced guy with 2 kids, and his wife gets alimony. The kids are almost 18, and the ex wife married a guy from Seattle, so the alimony is almost gone, and the child support will end soon. The divorced guy will be back on his feet shortly..... THEN they can move out of the apartment. Buy a house. Take some time off and go to Nashville and drink cinnamon jack daniels. (And get that weird pink mist the next day. Allll day long). 

But if eppler convinced the divorced dad to do that prematurly, it would only add to the debt still leftover from when ex wife jerry bought huge fake boobs that sag (pujols). 

The divorced dad is almost done with his night school program, and will be in a better career very soon. Eppler knows this. Its why eppler isnt trying to get divorced dad to quit night school, pick up more shifts at the manure plant to buy a boat. 

In shirt, what the podcast you listened to @Angelsjunky missed is what has happened over the last 5 years. Hell, a lot of us have.

You mentioned richards and shoemaker in your post.... both were bonafide stud pitchers. But Garret needed TJ, then needed it again. Plus the rolled ankle. Etc. Shoemaker took one off the dome, then hard arm problems. Etc.

Skaggs (rip). Heaney... how many SPs total since 2015 have we lost to TJ.

ANY team would be floundering with that luck.

If Ohtani didnt need it, and Garrett had knocked it out earlier and was good to go, there would have been no cahill/harvey. It would be a different team... and they would have spent differently.

 

[Inside Pitch]

40 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

In a chat earlier today, Fangraphs writer Dan Szymborski included the Angels in a group of the "five most dysfunctional organizations." My first response was surprise. I wasn't offended, nor did I automatically agree or disagree. I just didn't really consider the Angels org to be especially dysfunctional, at least with Eppler at the helm.

I can see someone from afar viewing their attempt to both rebuild and contend to be dysfunctional for no other reason because teams have tended to go one way or the other in recent years.   While I can see, I also can't help but wonder how they don't view how the Mike Trout situation forced their hands a bit.   They couldnt really roll the white flag up while he was around and they weren't going to just keep throwing money at their problems.

[Inside Pitch]

3 minutes ago, Kody Mac said:

Are you sure this isn’t the second account?

Maybe it's my third...     Mind blown yet?

[Lou]

2 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Eppler comes in, and its like he married the divorced guy with 2 kids, and his wife gets alimony. The kids are almost 18, and the ex wife married a guy from Seattle, so the alimony is almost gone, and the child support will end soon. The divorced guy will be back on his feet shortly..... THEN they can move out of the apartment. Buy a house. Take some time off and go to Nashville and drink cinnamon jack daniels. (And get that weird pink mist the next day. Allll day long). 

But if eppler convinced the divorced dad to do that prematurly, it would only add to the debt still leftover from when ex wife jerry bought huge fake boobs that sag (pujols). 

The divorced dad is almost done with his night school program, and will be in a better career very soon. Eppler knows this. Its why eppler isnt trying to get divorced dad to quit night school, pick up more shifts at the manure plant to buy a boat. 

recon, do you need someone to talk to?

[UndertheHalo]

I sometimes wonder if we’re pretty much the Mets.  The Mets have extremely weird owners who have their own special boi way of doing things that will persistently deliver disappointing results.  There’s all kind of reporting on that.  Whether you’re talking about forcing players to play who shouldn’t or constantly going after over the hill vets or passive aggressive feuding with star players.  Hell they were even what can accurately be described as recruiters for Bernie Madoff.  There is a shit torrent of stuff going on with the Mets that is crazy dysfunctional.  

So, all that seems to be really foreign to the Angels at first glance.  At least under Moreno they Angels have had bad baseball decision making and a lot of bad luck.  But it did take forever for them to get a real analytics department in place.  For years apparently they completely withdrew from international acquisitions.   So maybe being in a little bit less of a spot lite then the Mets are some stuff is just hidden.  Not all of it for sure.  I mean Trout did stay.  The players never say anything bad.  So on the surface that very different from the Mets.  But maybe the inner machinations are slow and behind the curve.  It’s something I kind of worry about.  The Angels need to not be the Mets.  I don’t think they are.  But the longer this persistent failure goes on....you have to wonder. 

[Angelsjunky]

7 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

In dipotos defense, he inherited a good team with some flaws. Yes, he shit the bed hard, but he also was under the gun to win a ring. The big problem was that in doing so, he destroyed the org, at the big league level and in the minors.

 

I love all the divorced dad stuff (being one), and think it works both on a humor and analytical level.

I also like how you say "in Dipoto's defense" and "he destroyed the org" within the span of a few words. 

6 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I can see someone from afar viewing their attempt to both rebuild and contend to be dysfunctional for no other reason because teams have tended to go one way or the other in recent years.   While I can see, I also can't help but wonder how they don't view how the Mike Trout situation forced their hands a bit.   They couldnt really roll the white flag up while he was around and they weren't going to just keep throwing money at their problems.

Yes, truly - which also makes me optimistic about the long-term and how the Trout contract gives Eppler some breathing room. It is almost like Trout said, "Dude, I have faith - do what you need to do so that we're competing for the entire decade of the 2020s. If that means we aren't serious  contenders for another year or two, no worries. I'll just continue enjoy being the best baseball player in the world, and making 40 mil a year while doing it."

[Claude]

Dysfunctional? Well it’s really difficult to spend this much money and not win at least one playoff game. But somehow we were able to pull it off. 

[eligrba]

Is this an appropriate time for a yacht fuel joke?

[Angel Oracle]

Why has this org has so much bad luck with TJS?    How many other orgs have had as many pitchers undergo TJS in the past 5 years?

The Halos have to be no worse than near the top, at least with MLB pitchers undergoing TJS since 2014?

[Angelsjunky]

"But its not our money."

~ Angelswin, January 21, 2011

~ Angelswin, December 8, 2011

~ Angelswin, December 14, 2012

[greginpsca]

They were 4 years ago, during the Dipoto shitstorm.