The official (slightly early) off season discussion thread. Let's hear your plan.

[Docwaukee]

Harper would be nice to have in the middle of our lineup but his inconsistency and poor defense scare me.  He'll probably get his $300 mil and someone is going to get an excellent player.  Just think there's almost zero chance it's us.  

[Angel Oracle]

What would the Royals be looking for in exchange for Merrifield?    He still has one year to go to get to arbitration, and thus 4 years of club control.   He would be stellar hitting at the top of the lineup in front of Trout, Ohtani, Upton, and Simba.   Has pop, speed to burn, drastically improved plate patience, and only K's a little above normal.

Maybe something like Rengifo, Suarez, Ward, and either Thaiss or Walsh?   Too much?   Not enough?   

Calhoun might really benefit having a Merrifield hitting in front of him in 2019, seeing more fastballs?

Merrifield, Calhoun, Trout, Ohtani, Upton, Simba, Pujols/JMF/Walsh/Thaiss, catcher, Cozart = potentially a deep enough lineup. 

Then sign Machete to return as pitcher whisperer, sign Robertson for 2-3 years (possible perfect pen mentor, and closing), and sign an innings eater with a low/mid 4.00s ERA.   No long and bad contracts handed out, yet improves the team more than just a little, while keeping plenty of good prospects.

[totdprods]

KC has also told Merrifield they aren't trading him though.

Obviously they're not in a position to turn down an impossibly good offer, but the Angels also aren't in a position to make said impossibly good offer.

[Angel Oracle]

Hope that Rengifo becomes the Halos' version of Merrifield?    He is still only age 21, and yet did have 50 XBH's to go with 41 SB's across 3 levels in 2018.   He is also a switch hitter.

Merrifield was a late developer after being drafted out of college, as he didn't make it to the majors until halfway through 2016 at age 27, and after SIX full minor league seasons.   He averaged 58 XBH's in 2017 and 2018, yet in the minors he only once reached 50 XBH's.

If Rengifo could be ready by mid-2019 and take over 2B, that preserves any prospects to either keep or use in another trade. 

[WeatherWonk]

On 10/4/2018 at 1:53 PM, Lou said:

Cadillacs have playoffs?

Owner of teams do.

Some owners actually make the playoffs, I am told. Of course, some have more than JUST a Cadillac. 

[ksangel]

As a fantasy I just bought the Angels and am not worried about $'s like the Dodgers of today and Yankees of old.  I want to play for the WS every year and give Angel fans what Arte wouldn't give them with all his $$$$$$$$$$$'s...a winner!!!

So this is what would "I" would do - not what the current Owner would do.

Instruct Eppler to plan for a four to five year window of win now and during that time keep rebuilding the farm system as a pipeline and as trade chips so when this window passes we're ready for the next four to five years.

1st order of business I buy out Pujols and make him the hitting coach/assistant manager for $10M/ year for 10 years thus getting rid of his contract but paying him for the money owed...no one says I can't pay him anything I want as a hitting coach/assistant manager.

Hire Astros bench coach Jose Espada as manager.  He'll be in sync with Eppler on using stats...please go read what Garrett Cole recently said about how the Astros use of stats made him a better pitcher.

DFA all dead weight...Shoemaker, Coward, Despaign, Bedorosian...etc.  Love Shoe but we need players who have produced.

Trade Adell, Canning and others for deGrom...we now have our ace to go up against the Verlander's , Kershaw's..etc.  With signing of Harper don't need Adell and with signing of deGrom and return of Ohtani as a pitcher in 2020 don't need Canning.  Good use of farm system because deGrom and Harper are All-Stars...Adell is a maybe all-star and Canning will never be what deGrom is.

Sign both Harper and Machado and also Marwin Gonzalez - who will play 3B, SS, 1B, LF and RF...this will allow shifting of all players.

Move Simmons to 2B where he will become an all-star both defensively and offensively and extend his career.

Sign Martin Maldonado..if Astros can win with him so can we...no big bucks for Grandal or trade for Marlins catcher

Sign Zach Britton which adds power lefty to pen.

Sign JA Happ type starter - righty innings eater...Lance Lynn is another possibility

Trade Calhoun and Cozart by paying a good portion of their salaries...another get rid of "dead weight" non-producers move.

Batting order

Trout CF - who wants to face him leading off? 

Ohtani DH

Machado SS/3B

Harper RF

Upton LF/1B

Gonzalez 3B, SS, 1B, LF...etc...

Fernandez 1B/2B - I keep him to save a little $'s and reward him for the hustle and effort he showed in 2018...becomes a Spezio type 1B on a loaded offensive team...can also play 2B.

Maldonado C

Simmons 2B

Bench:

Briceno C

Jon Jay OF

Fletcher UT

Pitchers:

deGrom, Skaggs, JA Happ, Heaney and Barria

Britton, Robles, Anderson, Buttry, Parker, Alvarez, Cole, Pina

 

Again, this is fantasy but the thread was "Let's hear your plan".

Some of this should happen like signing a known relief pitcher like Britton, an innings eating right handed pitcher like Happ/Lynn and quit thinking Shoe or Pina will be OK, a utility player like Marwin Gonzalez, who allows Ward to go back to AAA and hone his 3B defense for I think he is the future 3B but just not next year and signing Machado and moving Simmons to 2B.  These two could both play SS and Machado could play 3B from time to time letting Gonzalez move around.  Kole will be RF in 2019 and Adell in 2020.

And I know Pujols will be at 1B in 2019...hopefully it is his last year and for only about 100 games.  Fernandez and Gonzalez can play there too.

[Stradling]

I don’t want to rip you so I will just say this, your fantasy should never include moving the best defensive short stop in the history of the game over to 2nd base.  

[Lou]

This thread

 

 

 

[ksangel]

Understood but Simmons could become the best 2B too and Machado will not sign unless he can play SS. Other great players have changed positions and thrived. As I said...my fantasy and I'm tired of below .500 record and watching October baseball without the Angels in it.

 

[Vlad27Trout27]

another name to consider in the trade market, depending on how his team does is Max Scherzer!

Making a deal similar to the one for Verlander

[totdprods]

15 minutes ago, Vlad27Trout27 said:

another name to consider in the trade market, depending on how his team does is Max Scherzer!

Making a deal similar to the one for Verlander

Interesting idea...but...he's owed $42m/yr the next three years (a portion deferred through 2028)...

That's an extraordinary amount of money for a 2019 season 34-yr old pitcher, and I just can't see the Angels having the financial flexibility to make that work.

[Vlad27Trout27]

1 minute ago, totdprods said:

Interesting idea...but...he's owed $42m/yr the next three years (a portion deferred through 2028)...

That's an extraordinary amount of money for a 2019 season 34-yr old pitcher, and I just can't see the Angels having the financial flexibility to make that work.

That's why i said to structure a deal similar to Verlander's. No teams will try to eat that contract, looking at the Verlander trade Detroit sent 16 mil along in the deal. I don't get where you get the 42 mil per year, it should 37 mil next year, than 35 the following to years.

The thing to consider is that Washington will need to eat at least half of the salary to get a decent return, like you've that a lot of money.

Total for next 3 years is 106 mil and lets say that the nets agreed to eat half of the contract, we are looking at  16-18 mil the next three years.  He could be that Verlander piece for us! Best pitcher at the moment, Velocity is still solid, wipe-out change , strike pitcher and most importantly an true Ace, that if need can match up in a wildcard game.

Image 2020

Scherezer

Ohtani

Skaggs

Heaney

Canning. 

 

Two aces in Ohtani and Scherezer, followed by guys with number 2 stuff. 

  

[wopphil]

1 hour ago, Vlad27Trout27 said:

another name to consider in the trade market, depending on how his team does is Max Scherzer!

Making a deal similar to the one for Verlander

I dont see the Nats trading him. He will be wearing their hat when he makes the hall.

[UndertheHalo]

Also, why on earth would the Nats be selling off ? This was a weird year for them, but that team is loaded.

[Dick B Back]

1 hour ago, UndertheHalo said:

Also, why on earth would the Nats be selling off ? This was a weird year for them, but that team is loaded.

Agreed. You look at the OPS one through eight in their lineup, then their pitching staff and you just gotta wonder how the F does this team not make the post season.

[Second Base]

On 9/29/2018 at 11:12 PM, Scotty@AW said:

What would I do?  I'd probably operate with around 35 million AAV to play with before we meet our max payroll....

1. Sign Josh Donaldson 4/60 million.  He has a chance to outhit both Harper and Machado but at a fraction of the price.

2. Sign Daniel Murphy 3/30 million.  He's a great left handed hitter and we could use the balance.

3. Sign Dallas Keuchel 5/75 million.  Extreme ground ball pitcher that would steady a staff that hasn't found any sort of consistency. 

4. Cut loose Noe Ramirez, Jefry Marte, Deck McGuire etc....

5. Trade Jose Alvarez - He's been nails this year, but quite frankly, I think they should sell high.  I think he's overrated.  Get an interesting prospect for him if you can. 

6. Buy out Pujols' remaining years, even if it only saves the Angels a couple million at the most, even if it only means saving a roster spot.  Whatever, in this scenario, he's not the starting 1B.

7. Trade Zack Cozart and Kole Calhoun, even if it only means saving 5-10 million.  Cozart is a fine defensive infielder, just as Calhoun is a fine defensive outfielder, but neither hit enough to be starters at this point. 

8. Sign Jon Jay 1/5 million.

9. Sign a Jose Iglesias type as a minor league free agent with the mind that you'll make him the UTIL. 

10. Re-up Eric Young Jr to be the 4th OF. 

11. Trade Cam Bedrosian.  Get whatever you can. 

 - Roughly speaking, this figures to result in a team that's approximately 10 million more expensive than the 2018 Angels.  

The team would be....

1. SS Andrelton Simmons 2. CF Mike Trout 3. DH Shohei Ohtani 4. 3B Josh Donaldson 5. 1B Daniel Murphy 6. LF Justin Upton 7. RF Jon Jay 8. C Arcia 9. 2B David Fletcher

BENCH: 2B/SS Iglesias, 1B/2B/3B Jose Miguel Fernandez, C Briceno, OF Young. 

Rotation: 1. Dallas Keuchel 2. Tyler Skaggs 3. Andrew Heaney 4. Jaime Barria 5. Matt Shoemaker

Bullpen: 1. Blake Parker 2. Justin Anderson 3. Ty Buttery 4. Hansel Robles 5. Felix Pena 6. JC Ramirez 7. Alex Meyer (Plus Middleton when he's ready)

EXPLANATION - Having Donaldson and Murphy takes a lot of pressure off of Upton to back up Trout.  Trout's been pitched around this year because he's great, but also because there just wasn't a credible threat behind him for the vast majority of the year until Shohei was moved up and was hitting everyday.  Move Upton into a spot in the order where it'll be great if he produces, but if he doesn't, he has a few guys that can also step up.  

The Rotation still leaves a lot to be desired but I think it'll be ok for a number of reasons. a-I really think Shoemaker is back for good now.  They figured out the issue and he'll be a steady, yet unspectacular presence at the back end.  b-Keuchel is an extreme ground ball pitcher and if you put him in front of Simmons and Fletcher, it'll result is some great numbers.  c-Barria and Heaney are very steady.  It won't be like years past. The whole rotation should be much more stable.  Not amazing, but the Angels don't need amazing, they just need steady.  d-Canning is going to force his way into the rotation before the all-star break and Angels fans really don't realize just how good this kid is, but they will.  I think he'll take the league by storm next year.  

While the bullpen doesn't feature a lefty, it features a collection of pitchers that get lefties out.  But I really think this will be a masterpiece of a bullpen because the sheer velocity.  We'll feature six different relievers hitting the upper 90's, along with Middleton and Jerez at some point as well.   Plus Pena, Ramirez and Meyer can all go multiple innings, which takes a lot of pressure off the rotation.  And if a lefty is needed, jose Suarez down in AAA could handle the duty. 

I truly believe that this team would be a winner, and it would be built without forking over hundreds of millions on Harper or Machado.

I'll update mine, because studies show, the more crap you through against the wall, the more will stick. 

1. Sign Josh Donaldson to a 3/45 deal to play 3B.  Sign Daniel Murphy to a 3/30 deal to play 1B.  Sign Dallas Keuchel to a 5/75 deal to lead our pitching staff.  Sign Jose Iglesias to a minor league contract with the promise that he'll compete for AB's at 2B and UTIL.  Same with EY2 for 4th OF.  This results in 40 million spent and our limit is 30 million it sounds like, so we'll need to cut costs somewhere.   

2. Trade Jose Alvarez and Cam Bedrosian, because I don't think either of them are that good, but because of their performance this last season, some team might take a chance on them.  I'm not interested.  This should save about 5 million, which cuts our total spent to 35 million.  

3. Cut loose Jefry Marte, Noe Ramirez, Miguel Almonte, Parker Bridwell, Odirasmer Despaigne, Deck McGuire, Kaleb Cowart and Sherman Johnson.  Off the active roster, this may only cut about 2 million off the payroll, but the rest of them would all need to be replaced by others.  So we're down to 33 million. 

4. This is a fantasy land, but in my fantasy land, the Angels buy out Albert Pujols' remaining contract for exactly what it's worth.  The only difference is now, he's the Angels hitting coach, and not taking up a roster spot.  Still 33 million. 

5. Trade Kole Calhoun, Zack Cozart, Chris Rodriguez, Brandon Marsh, Leo Rivas and 9 million in cash to the Pirates for Starling Marte.  He's owed 10 million this year, which makes him a wash with Calhoun in terms of salary but also comes with the added benefit of two option years, one at 11.5 million, another at 12.5 million, which means RF is solved, and there's no need to rush Jo Adell.  We'd save 3 million this year by jettisoning Mozart and installing David Fletcher as the starting 2B, while using Iglesias at UTIL and everyone's favorite, Luis Rengifo, as the first man called up in place of an injury.  The team now sits at 30 million spent. 

_______________________________________

And he's the team. 

1. RF Starling Marte 2. CF Mike Trout 3. DH Shohei Ohtani 4. 3B Josh Donaldson 5. 1B Daniel Murphy 6. LF Justin Upton 7. SS Andrelton Simmons 8. C Briceno 9. 2B David Fletcher

BENCH: Arcia (C), Iglesias (UTIL), Fernandez (1B/PH), Young (OF)

ROTATION: 1. Dallas Keuchel 2. Tyler Skaggs 3. Andrew Heaney 4. Jaime Barria 5. Matt Shoemaker

BULLPEN: 1. TyButtrey 2. Blake Parker 3. Justin Anderson 4. Felix Pena 5. J.C. Ramirez 6. Alex Meyer 7. Hansel Robles

AAA: Griffin Canning, Jose Suarez, Pat Sandoval (by May or June), Jesus Castillo, Luis Pena, Jake Jewell, Matt Thaiss, Luis Rengifo, Michael Hermosillo

The specific reason I list our AAA squad is because I believe that at some point, Skaggs and Shoemaker will hit the DL or need to be replaced.  We could either fill those rotation spots using our dearth of starters in the bullpen (Pena, Ramirez or Meyer) and promote Canning/Suarez/Sandoval into the bullpen, or we could just turn straight to Canning/Suarez/Sandoval for the rotation.  Whatever the case is, the Angels will have more pitching depth than they've had in a couple years.  And that offense figures to be one of the better ones in the league. 

 

[CDiaz27?]

3 hours ago, ksangel said:

Understood but Simmons could become the best 2B too and Machado will not sign unless he can play SS. Other great players have changed positions and thrived. As I said...my fantasy and I'm tired of below .500 record and watching October baseball without the Angels in it.

 

https://dodgerblue.com/mlb-free-agency-rumors-dodgers-manny-machado-willing-transition-third-base-for-right-team/2018/09/17/

[fanfromday1]

Several posters here on AW have been advocating that the Angels sign Bryce Harper. I’m not opposed to the idea, because he would fill a significant hole in our offense and would fit nicely in right field. However, many opposing posters point out how his possible mega contract could affect any other acquisitions the Angels could make.

And I agree with this last point as well, because several other teams are going to be in the hunt for Harper which is going to drive up his potential worth. One of those teams, I believe, is going to be the New York Yankees, because it has been rumored that the Yankees have coveted him for years. However, at the present time the Yankees have a full outfield of very good players. Judge, Hicks, Stanton, McCutchen, Gardner, and even Jacob Ellsbury (presently on the DL).

I have even seen statement saying that Bryce Harper has mentioned he would also like to play for the Yankees. Back in June or July of this year, when the Nationals were playing at Yankee Stadium, Bryce Harper even shaved off his beard amongst speculation that he was auditioning for the Yankees.

So, if both Harper and the Yankees have such admiration for each other why don’t we step in and help them achieve that outcome. Let’s take one of their outfielders off their hands. Personally, I really like Hicks. He’s a switch hitter, can play all three outfield positions, is only 29 years old, and he’s a local Southern Californian from San Pedro. But I don’t think the Yankees are going to want to trade away their best centerfielder.

Now, how about some out-of-the-box thinking. What if we traded for Giancarlo Stanton. He would be a lot cheaper than Harper, and he was the talk of this board last off-season. Many here came up with several different scenarios about how the Angels could fit him in under our salary cap. Is there a reason that those scenarios wouldn’t work this year? Getting Stanton would also take a large chunk out of the Yankees payroll and would free up enough money for them to make a better offer for Harper.

If we were to relieve the Yankees of such a large portion of their payroll, by taking Stanton off their hands, we may be able to get him for a substantial discount. Word is that they will be looking for some pitching this off-season. Would a left-hander like Skaggs, plus a couple of low-level minor leaguers be sufficient?

 

[Blarg]

There is no reason to trade assets for a right fielder with Adell in the minors. The Angels will limp along with Calhoun next season as a starter and by the end of the year, unless Calhoun has some amazing bounce back year, Adell will be getting time there. In 2020 he will be the starting right fielder. 

What I'm saying is right field is not a talking point for this off season, move on from it. 

[tdawg87]

4 minutes ago, Blarg said:

There is no reason to trade assets for a right fielder with Adell in the minors. The Angels will limp along with Calhoun next season as a starter and by the end of the year, unless Calhoun has some amazing bounce back year, Adell will be getting time there. In 2020 he will be the starting right fielder. 

What I'm saying is right field is not a talking point for this off season, move on from it. 

I agree. It's Harper or bust for RF, and we aren't getting Harper. Just gotta hope Calhoun can rebound or Adell can be ready.

[Blarg]

Adell will be green mid season but I think that won't matter. He has close to MLB skills already and if Fletcher can learn on the job this season, Adell certainly has the talent to do the same next by July. 

[Dtwncbad]

3 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Adell will be green mid season but I think that won't matter. He has close to MLB skills already and if Fletcher can learn on the job this season, Adell certainly has the talent to do the same next by July. 

I think that is pretty ambitious.

[Blarg]

I've seen him play in person. He has the talent to make the jump. 

[Dtwncbad]

43 minutes ago, Blarg said:

I've seen him play in person. He has the talent to make the jump. 

Nobody questions the talent at this point.  It is a matter of experience.

I can't wait for him but I dont want to rush anything.

[Second Base]

2 hours ago, Blarg said:

There is no reason to trade assets for a right fielder with Adell in the minors. The Angels will limp along with Calhoun next season as a starter and by the end of the year, unless Calhoun has some amazing bounce back year, Adell will be getting time there. In 2020 he will be the starting right fielder. 

What I'm saying is right field is not a talking point for this off season, move on from it. 

See now I think that's oversimplifying Adell and what his value is to the team. Sure, that the best possible plan, to have him roam RF next to Tout for the next 10 years, but what if Trout leaves? Wouldn't you be glad you landed yourself a great RF to play alongside Jo Adell in CF? 

And I think we as fans should pump the brakes on Adell. This kid is in AA at such a young age because of how dominant his natural ability is, but he still has a lot to work on. He needs time. The plate discipline is lacking, there's too much swing and miss to his game, he hasn't slowed the game down enough to read pitches like he will later on. Defensively, he's better than I thought he'd be, so that's good.

But again, time. It would be unwise to assume Adell will be ready to take over in July 2019, or even April 2020. He might struggle in AA all year next year. And if that happens, you'll wish you had a RF better than Calhoun, that would be around longer than Calhoun. 

And I think if the best thing happens, and we have a new RF AND Trout re-ups, then the Angels could make some trades or move Upton to 1B/DH later in his contract. Either way it's good news for the Angels.

So I think getting a good RF can only mean good things for this team.