The official (slightly early) off season discussion thread. Let's hear your plan.

[Second Base]

1 hour ago, greginpsca said:

I wouldn’t count on Ramirez or Meyer at all. If they are able to contribute, then that is the cherry on top. Ramirez is less than a year out from surgery. Meyer’s injury was much more serious. The kind of injury that can easily be a career ending type.

Yeah they're more of a later in the year sort of thing.  But both are out of options, and both can dial it up to triple digits.  You can see why their upside is quite enticing.  I wouldn't stake the success of the year on them, but if they can come in and be valuable parts of the bullpen, our staff would be insanely good.

Simply put, there aren't many relievers that sit in the upper 90's and can go 2 innings with no issues.  If the Angels have two of them, their bullpen would be unstoppable. 

[Hubs]

I thought that Ramirez was going to be non-tendered, until I saw pics of him yesterday at the press conference.

I still doubt he's back in 2019, but maybe they sign him to a 2 year deal.

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Scotty@AW said:

Yeah they're more of a later in the year sort of thing.  But both are out of options, and both can dial it up to triple digits.  You can see why their upside is quite enticing.  I wouldn't stake the success of the year on them, but if they can come in and be valuable parts of the bullpen, our staff would be insanely good.

Simply put, there aren't many relievers that sit in the upper 90's and can go 2 innings with no issues.  If the Angels have two of them, their bullpen would be unstoppable. 

Scotty, I think this is you overvaluing Angel players again.  JC Ramirez has never been a good to insanely good relief pitcher.  I don’t expect him to be a difference maker in this bullpen.  Could he help sure, but he is so far from a sure thing it isn’t even funny.  Same goes for Meyer.  Yes Meyer showed some signs in a few starts prior to going on the DL over a year ago.  But he has never had control in his career and has never been able to sustain health.  These are two guys, that if we had a really good pen, would simply add depth.  I know it isn’t far from what you said except you talk about these two like they are sure things because they throw hard.  They have had pedestrian careers despite having the ability to bring it at 100 MPH.  I hope for the best, but these two are basically lottery tickets, which aren’t usually winners.  

[Second Base]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Scotty, I think this is you overvaluing Angel players again.  JC Ramirez has never been a good to insanely good relief pitcher.  I don’t expect him to be a difference maker in this bullpen.  Could he help sure, but he is so far from a sure thing it isn’t even funny.  Same goes for Meyer.  Yes Meyer showed some signs in a few starts prior to going on the DL over a year ago.  But he has never had control in his career and has never been able to sustain health.  These are two guys, that if we had a really good pen, would simply add depth.  I know it isn’t far from what you said except you talk about these two like they are sure things because they throw hard.  They have had pedestrian careers despite having the ability to bring it at 100 MPH.  I hope for the best, but these two are basically lottery tickets, which aren’t usually winners.  

Strad, I guess you missed the parts where I write "if".  That's ok.  They're far from sure things, but IF they come back healthy, they COULD be a huge boost to the bullpen. 

[Stradling]

5 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

Strad, I guess you missed the parts where I write "if".  That's ok.  They're far from sure things, but IF they come back healthy, they COULD be a huge boost to the bullpen. 

Yep and you missed where I said it wasn’t much different than what you said. 

[floplag]

At this point i think the only real question is who they are looking at for catcher and a couple of SP arms.  Its not what i want, but it seems clear its what they intend to do.   Id still rather invest in the pen and offense, but thats not gonna happen so its moot.

If i had to guess at this point i think maybe they try to trade for Realmuto and sign 2 FA SPs.   If they cant swing the trade they maybe get Grandal or Ramos if they fit in the budget with the starters.  That plus a 4th OF options or bringing back EYjr and thats the off season in a nutshell. 

[Second Base]

39 minutes ago, Stradling said:

except you talk about these two like they are sure things because they throw hard.

 

46 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

I wouldn't stake the success of the year on them, but if they can come in and be valuable parts of the bullpen....

I'll just leave this here. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

14 hours ago, Scotty@AW said:

I know I've stated what I would do in this fantasy of a scenario, but I'd like to share what it looks to me like the Angels will actually do this winter. Not overly creative, but I think it carries a degree of likelihood.

1. Sign Gio Gonzalez 2 years 20 million and an option for a third year at 12 million with a 2 million dollar buyout. 

2. Sign Nathan Eovaldi 3 years 36 million plus an option for a fourth year at 15 million with a 2 million dollar buyout. 

3. Sign Matt Adams 1 year 3 million

4. Sign Adam Warren 1 year 3 million 

5. Sign David Phelps 1 year 2 million 

6. Sign Junichi Tazawa 1 year 1 million. 

Basically, the rotation will be set with Skaggs, Heaney, Barria, Eovaldi and Gonzalez, the offense will be largely the same except Adams will take a lot of AB's away from Albert, particularly in the early going. And as far as the bullpen goes, Buttrey, Parker, Robles, Pena and Alvarez will have their spots, but the final three spots in the pen will be up for grabs between Justin Anderson, Williams Jerez, Jake Jewell, Cam Bedrosian, Taylor Cole, Matt Shoemaker, Alex Meyer, JC Ramirez, Adam Warren, David Phelps and Junichi Tazawa. 

Just an outside guess, Anderson, Jerez, Jewell and Cole will move down to AAA because they have options, Bedrosian won't rediscover the missing velocity and will be let go, Meyers and Ramirez won't be ready for the start of the year and thus end up on the DL and the team will go with Shoemaker, Warren and Phelps to round out then pen, giving Ausmus a variety of multi-inning options at his disposal as well as the ability to go with a bullpen game a couple, times a month should a starter need additional rest.

I actually think this is a very good, reasonable, affordable plan.

You could probably still also trade for Realmuto, since you aren't using up any prospects for anything else. Give up Marsh, Suarez, someone else. If not, trade for someone like Luke Maile. 

And if you're getting all those pitchers, you can probably save $5M by DFA'ing/trading Shoemaker.

EDIT: I think I would also rather have someone who plays more IF positions than Matt Adams. Skip one of the relievers and get Mike Moustakas  for 7M instead. He can play 3b or 1B. (He hasn't played much 1b, but that's not a tough transition, I don't think.) Or even Descalso for 2M. Not as much power as either of the others, but gets on base better and plays more positions.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Jeff Fletcher

[Inside Pitch]

21 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Thaiss has been a bit of a disappointment, for a guy drafted 2.5 years ago in the first round from an elite ACC baseball program.

Even Cron got to the bigs in pretty much the same timeframe. 

Meh -- Cron didn't make his MLB debut until his age 24 season, next year will be Thaiss' age 24 season.   

You're kinda jumping the gun a bit.  To date none of the position players taken in the first round of the 2016 draft have made their MLB debut, and only Senzel (#2 pick overall), and Will Smith of the Dodgers (#32 overall) have even reached AAA.  Of those three, Thaiss has the most at bats at the level -- nobody else has even 200 at bats in AAA.

Overall a total of 8 players taken in 2016 have made their MLB debuts including two position players -- one of which made his debut in 2017 and spent all of last year in AA.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/draft/byYear.asp?Y=2016

[GrittyVeterans]

If your plan doesn't include acquiring a catcher, I am skeptical of it. 

This team cannot go into a season with Briceno and Arcia as their catchers. Not if we want to win.

[Stradling]

47 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

 

I'll just leave this here. 

Cool.   You’re the best.  

[Hubs]

17 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I actually think this is a very good, reasonable, affordable plan.

You could probably still also trade for Realmuto, since you aren't using up any prospects for anything else. Give up Marsh, Suarez, someone else. If not, trade for someone like Luke Maile. 

And if you're getting all those pitchers, you can probably save $5M by DFA'ing/trading Shoemaker.

EDIT: I think I would also rather have someone who plays more IF positions than Matt Adams. Skip one of the relievers and get Mike Moustakas  for 7M instead. He can play 3b or 1B. (He hasn't played much 1b, but that's not a tough transition, I don't think.) Or even Descalso for 2M. Not as much power as either of the others, but gets on base better and plays more positions.

I'd modify this to be slightly more aggressive:

1) Sign either Gio Gonzalez or Nathan Eovaldi to 3/39 contract (10M in 2019, 13 in 2020, 16 in 2021).

2) Trade for Sonny Gray who will cost you $9M. Sign him to a two year deal at $14 M total, paying him 6M in 2019, and 8M in 2020 if he is agreeable.

3) Sign Andrew McCutchen to a 2 year 28 M deal with an option. I'd pay him less in 2019 than in 2020. (10 in 2019, 18 in 2020). Calhoun becomes your Matt Adams/Mike Moustakas lefty bat off the bench. Nick Markakis also works for this deal if McCutchen ends up asking for significantly more.

4) Sign Adam Warren for 1 year 3M.

5) Sign David Phelps or Tazawa for 1 year 2M

6) Trade for JT Realmuto or Sign Wilson Ramos. Ramos blows the budget by getting 13M-15M annually over three years, but Realmuto is projected to just cost 6M.

Either way, you'd be at 37-46M in additional payroll for 2019.

 

Keep Shoemaker by signing him to an incentive laden 2 year contract. But Non-tender Tropeano, Despaigne, Marte, Bedrosian, Ramirez.

Try to resign Ramirez to a 2 year deal at the major league minimum in 2019 but 3 or 4M in 2019. Maybe do something similar with Garrett Richards. Though I expect Richards would be due more money.

 

Bedrosian has not ever tapped into his potential, would be the 5th or 6th guy in the pen, and Tropeano has been injury prone and would also be the 8th or 9th starter in the rotation in 2019, 10th or 11th in 2020.

2019 Heaney, Gray, Eovaldi, Skaggs, Barria, Shoemaker, Pena, Meyer, Canning, Tropeano (9th)

2020 Ohtani, Richards, Heaney, Gray, Eovaldi, Skaggs, Barria, Canning, Pena, Ramirez, etc... Tropeano (11th)

 

[Second Base]

27 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Cool.   You’re the best.  

[Second Base]

41 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Meh -- Cron didn't make his MLB debut until his age 24 season, next year will be Thaiss' age 24 season.   

You're kinda jumping the gun a bit.  To date none of the position players taken in the first round of the 2016 draft have made their MLB debut, and only Senzel (#2 pick overall), and Will Smith of the Dodgers (#32 overall) have even reached AAA.  Of those three, Thaiss has the most at bats at the level -- nobody else has even 200 at bats in AAA.

Overall a total of 8 players taken in 2016 have made their MLB debuts including two position players -- one of which made his debut in 2017 and spent all of last year in AA.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/draft/byYear.asp?Y=2016

Not a bad draft class, just not very top heavy in terms of elite talent.  Much of the better talent was taken outside of the top 10, or even top 15.  The selection of Thaiss wasn't a very popular pick, but when comparing his to the rest of the class itself, he falls pretty much right in line with where you'd expect him to be today.  I get that people are disappointed because he doesn't possess the upside you'd look for from a 1B taken in the first round, but it was a safe pick that saved money and ultimately led to the Angels being able to draft some better guys in later rounds.

[floplag]

30 minutes ago, Hubs said:

I'd modify this to be slightly more aggressive:

1) Sign either Gio Gonzalez or Nathan Eovaldi to 3/39 contract (10M in 2019, 13 in 2020, 16 in 2021).

2) Trade for Sonny Gray who will cost you $9M. Sign him to a two year deal at $14 M total, paying him 6M in 2019, and 8M in 2020 if he is agreeable.

3) Sign Andrew McCutchen to a 2 year 28 M deal with an option. I'd pay him less in 2019 than in 2020. (10 in 2019, 18 in 2020). Calhoun becomes your Matt Adams/Mike Moustakas lefty bat off the bench. Nick Markakis also works for this deal if McCutchen ends up asking for significantly more.

4) Sign Adam Warren for 1 year 3M.

5) Sign David Phelps or Tazawa for 1 year 2M

6) Trade for JT Realmuto or Sign Wilson Ramos. Ramos blows the budget by getting 13M-15M annually over three years, but Realmuto is projected to just cost 6M.

Either way, you'd be at 37-46M in additional payroll for 2019.

 

Keep Shoemaker by signing him to an incentive laden 2 year contract. But Non-tender Tropeano, Despaigne, Marte, Bedrosian, Ramirez.

Try to resign Ramirez to a 2 year deal at the major league minimum in 2019 but 3 or 4M in 2019. Maybe do something similar with Garrett Richards. Though I expect Richards would be due more money.

 

Bedrosian has not ever tapped into his potential, would be the 5th or 6th guy in the pen, and Tropeano has been injury prone and would also be the 8th or 9th starter in the rotation in 2019, 10th or 11th in 2020.

2019 Heaney, Gray, Eovaldi, Skaggs, Barria, Shoemaker, Pena, Meyer, Canning, Tropeano (9th)

2020 Ohtani, Richards, Heaney, Gray, Eovaldi, Skaggs, Barria, Canning, Pena, Ramirez, etc... Tropeano (11th)

 

The bolded part is at question, we have been told and shown mathematically that we have about 30 mil to spend.  Any plan thats busts that becomes unlikely at best.   and you blew it out of the water if youre expecting north of 40. 

Realmuto at 6, gives you 24ish, that might get you the 2 starters, maybe... but thats about it.  The rest is what we have now on opening day.

For the record i would rather sign one of the FA guys for 10-12 than trade for Gray and save a few mil at the cost of good prospects, that one makes no sense to me unless the FA guys price themselves higher than anticipated. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, Hubs said:

1) Sign either Gio Gonzalez or Nathan Eovaldi to 3/39 contract (10M in 2019, 13 in 2020, 16 in 2021).

 

Gio is about 4 years older than Eovaldi so I don’t see them being comparable. Eovaldi is going to be looking for 3-4 and Gio maybe 2.

[red321]

1 hour ago, Hubs said:

 

 

Bedrosian has not ever tapped into his potential, would be the 5th or 6th guy in the pen, and Tropeano has been injury prone and would also be the 8th or 9th starter in the rotation in 2019, 10th or 11th in 2020.

 

At this point the only potential Bedrosian has is selling bathroom tile...if the Angels count on that arsonist again whoever makes that decision should be fired and forced to help Bedrosian memorize the entire product catalog

[Hubs]

4 hours ago, floplag said:

The bolded part is at question, we have been told and shown mathematically that we have about 30 mil to spend.  Any plan thats busts that becomes unlikely at best.   and you blew it out of the water if youre expecting north of 40. 

Realmuto at 6, gives you 24ish, that might get you the 2 starters, maybe... but thats about it.  The rest is what we have now on opening day.

For the record i would rather sign one of the FA guys for 10-12 than trade for Gray and save a few mil at the cost of good prospects, that one makes no sense to me unless the FA guys price themselves higher than anticipated. 

I saved $6 on non tendering Bedrosian, Tropeano, etc. I also realize the value of the contracts are higher AAV but I pushed the actual money into 2020 when Calhoun’s $10 M comes off the books. They’d be under the tax and around last years payroll or a few million more. And they’d have a team which has a shot of winning the division. 

[Stradling]

For a cost controlled option that could play all around the field maybe a return of Howie.  

[Docwaukee]

52 minutes ago, Stradling said:

For a cost controlled option that could play all around the field maybe a return of Howie.  

that's a really good call actually.  Can play 1b, corner OF, 2b and 3b.  Dude can fall out of bed and hit .290.  He's owed 4mil from WSN for 2019.  My guess is it wouldn't take anything to bring him back.  

Some would call his return something that the 'same ol' halos would do'.  

I'd welcome him back.  

[totdprods]

10 hours ago, Dochalo said:

that's a really good call actually.  Can play 1b, corner OF, 2b and 3b.  Dude can fall out of bed and hit .290.  He's owed 4mil from WSN for 2019.  My guess is it wouldn't take anything to bring him back.  

Some would call his return something that the 'same ol' halos would do'.  

I'd welcome him back.  

At his age, I’d be a little worried about his versatility after his injury and a year off the field. His defense was already tailing off the last couple seasons as it was. But in place of Marte/Valbuena, I’d be happy having him instead.

Cozart and Fletcher mitigate that a little bit, but both are likely starting, so I’d think you’d need to bring one more starting caliber infielder, and then have both Fletch and Kendrick on the bench. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

18 hours ago, Hubs said:

) Sign Adam Warren for 1 year 3M.

5) Sign David Phelps or Tazawa for 1 year 2M

I have been thinking about this because I was going to do one of those guys for my “Angels options” Series, but I actually think Warren and Phelps may both get more money than that. Based on last year’s numbers I could see Warren or Phelps each getting 4-5M per year. Look what Petit got as a FA last year (2/10), after basically one good season following an inconsistent career. Those guys are both kinda like him.

I have another reliever who is a trade candidate. I won’t spoil the surprise for you. 

Edited October 24, 2018 by Jeff Fletcher

[Second Base]

4 hours ago, totdprods said:

At his age, I’d be a little worried about his versatility after his injury and a year off the field. His defense was already tailing off the last couple seasons as it was. But in place of Marte/Valbuena, I’d be happy having him instead.

Cozart and Fletcher mitigate that a little bit, but both are likely starting, so I’d think you’d need to bring one more starting caliber infielder, and then have both Fletch and Kendrick on the bench. 

I'll include @Dochalo in this response.  I think whoever it is, it only needs to be a one year fix until we've got a clearer picture on who exactly Jahmai Jones, Luis Rengifo and Taylor Ward are. I know there's concern about Howie's durability, but at one year, it's not much of a risk.  Though I do think Washington has plans of competing next year and beyond, and many players said that when Howie got hurt, the team itself was sunk.  Apparently he's a clubhouse leader there. 

From a human standpoint, I'm not sure the Nationals would be willing to trade him. 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

On 9/30/2018 at 10:24 AM, Tank said:

Sign Familia to be the closer.

find a good starting pitcher that has already had TJS.

5. Eovaldi

[TroutField]

1 hour ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

5. Eovaldi

If they singed Eovaldi and traded for Sonny Gray and then traded for a solid young catcher(Realmuto) I may get slightly excited for next season.