The official (slightly early) off season discussion thread. Let's hear your plan.

[tdawg87]

26 minutes ago, WeatherWonk said:

What good is a Cadillac if it sits in the garage at playoff time? 

This is the worst analogy every created by a human being. Congratulations!

[jordan]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

Honestly I do not want Trout on a 12 year deal. That's age 39 when it ends or another wish we hadn't done that deal. You want to make it ten with a couple of team options then it makes sense.

But seeing Trout trying to push a late 30's body after so much hard use in the outfield just isn't appealing. Yeah, there is the DH in the AL (which is why Philly isn't a match) but there is also no steroids propping up players. Natural decline is even going to be a factor for Mike. I'd rather he go out gracefully rather than this horrible mess with Pujols.

I think if Philly were to give him a 10 year deal, that before the contract would be over, the DH would be in the NL. 

[Dtwncbad]

What good is Mike Trout if you don't put him to in a car show?

[tdawg87]

6 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

What good is Mike Trout if you don't put him to in a car show?

Good question. 

@EnglishCop?

[Jeff Fletcher]

3 hours ago, WeatherWonk said:

I didnt call the team cheap. You put those words down. Not me.

I said that Arte is wearing his salary cap again. And we will likely try and find solutions from within, instead of outside.  That's the logical conclusion, based on Fletcher's observation.

Locking up Trout doesnt improve this team for the next year..............which is what this thread is about, last time I checked. Locking up Trout is immaterial to the discussion about NEXT YEAR. In fact, it could severely limit what the Angels can do next year.

I disagree. I think if you lock him up you can restructure his deal so he creates cash flow space in 2019, as I did. 

[Troll Daddy]

Whoever the Angels hire as manager may influence Trout’s decision on signing a extension this off season. 

[Angelsjunky]

6 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

OK, I'm going to take a whack at this. (This isn't necessarily what I would do, but what I think the Angels could do, based on my knowledge of their situation and what they value).

-Extend Mike Trout. Rip up old deal and give him 12 years,  $420M, reducing 2019 salary to $28M (saves $6M in cash flow for 19)

-Sign Patrick Corbin for 5/$100M or Dallas Keuchel for 4/$75M. (Either way, paying $16M in 2019)

-Sign CC Sabathia for 1/$10M

-Sign Phil Hughes for nothing (He's still being paid by the Twins)

-nontender JC Ramirez, Matt Shoemaker.

-trade for JT Realmuto (they can have 1 of anyone but Adell, Canning, then a 2nd in the 10-20 range, and a 3rd thats outside the top 30). He'll make about $5M.

-Sign UT Daniel Descalso for 1 yr, $5M

-Sign OF Jon Jay for 1 yr, $5M

----

Lineup: 3B Cozart, CF Trout, DH Ohtani, LF Upton, 1B Pujols, C Realmuto, SS Simons, RF Calhoun, 2B Fletcher.

Bench: Jay, Arcia/Briceno, Descalso, (JMF, Rengifo, Cowart, etc.)

Rotation: Keuchel/Corbin, Skaggs, Heaney, Sabathia, Barria. (Pena, Tropeano, Meyer, Bridwell, Canning in AAA)

Bullpen: Parker, Buttrey, Robles, Alvarez, Bedrosian, Anderson, (Middleton in June) plus some combination of Cole, Jerez, and whatever other gems Eppler finds on the waiver wire. 

----

This keeps the payroll about the same as 2018, in real money. It should be under the luxury tax, but it'll be close.

 

I really hope you are right about Realmuto, as he fills a massive hole. But as someone said, I think it would require a bit more - maybe something like Marsh, Jones, and maybe one of Suarez or Thaiss. Given that the Angels have a ton of depth in the OF and don't need both Jones and Rengifo, I'd go for it.

I also wouldn't bother with Sabathia or Hughes. If they're going with Corbin/Keuchel, Skaggs, Heaney, and Barria at 1-4, I'm totally fine with Shoemaker, Pena, Canning, Tropeano, Meyer and Bridwell duking it out for 5th starter, as well as the inevitable 6th, 7th, etc. 

Instead, I'd go after Jeurys Familia, who is a bit underrated right now, the second best available closer after Kimbrel, and will be much cheaper. 

[Tank]

5 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Shut up

dude, play nicely. blarg has a room he might consider renting.

[Docwaukee]

6 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

OK, I'm going to take a whack at this. (This isn't necessarily what I would do, but what I think the Angels could do, based on my knowledge of their situation and what they value).

-Extend Mike Trout. Rip up old deal and give him 12 years,  $420M, reducing 2019 salary to $28M (saves $6M in cash flow for 19)

-Sign Patrick Corbin for 5/$100M or Dallas Keuchel for 4/$75M. (Either way, paying $16M in 2019)

-Sign CC Sabathia for 1/$10M

-Sign Phil Hughes for nothing (He's still being paid by the Twins)

-nontender JC Ramirez, Matt Shoemaker.

-trade for JT Realmuto (they can have 1 of anyone but Adell, Canning, then a 2nd in the 10-20 range, and a 3rd thats outside the top 30). He'll make about $5M.

-Sign UT Daniel Descalso for 1 yr, $5M

-Sign OF Jon Jay for 1 yr, $5M

----

Lineup: 3B Cozart, CF Trout, DH Ohtani, LF Upton, 1B Pujols, C Realmuto, SS Simons, RF Calhoun, 2B Fletcher.

Bench: Jay, Arcia/Briceno, Descalso, (JMF, Rengifo, Cowart, etc.)

Rotation: Keuchel/Corbin, Skaggs, Heaney, Sabathia, Barria. (Pena, Tropeano, Meyer, Bridwell, Canning in AAA)

Bullpen: Parker, Buttrey, Robles, Alvarez, Bedrosian, Anderson, (Middleton in June) plus some combination of Cole, Jerez, and whatever other gems Eppler finds on the waiver wire. 

----

This keeps the payroll about the same as 2018, in real money. It should be under the luxury tax, but it'll be close.

 

I like it but I still can't give up Canning or Adell for only two years of control on Realmuto.  Cards gave up one top 100 for Ozuna  and two lesser guys to complete the deal.  He also had only two years of control left.  Adell is going to be a top ten prospect in all of baseball.  He's off the table for sure unless it's in a package for an ace that's locked up for awhile.   I don't view Canning as any better of a prospect than  Marsh but I think we need him more whereas we have redundancy in OF prospects.  I also think the Marlins would take just about any top prospect at this point and Marsh would actually be their #1.  I know your proposal is theoretical and I'm just splitting hairs but I don't want to give up any pitching in our top 20.  I know that's not likely, but it's the one area where we're a bit thin.  

I think your general template is spot on though.  

Add either solid position player or pitcher with some control via trade.  get the other via free agency.  
Add another back of the rotation arm
Sign a 4th OFer that is a borderline starter 
Add a util IFer
Create some payroll space
Extend Trout
Bring a couple of potential starters with comeback potential to camp and see what happens.  

Mine would be very similar. 

Instead of Sabathia, I'd keep Shoe and consider a more economical 1yr deal on a starter and grab a high leverage reliever.  I also think that Sabathia will be a yankee again.  
I like the descalso idea a lot.  I think they'll grab him or someone similar from the late Jan pool of those that haven't signed.  But descalso would work well in that he 'd likely be cheaper than someone like Marwin Gonzalez.  
It wouldn't bother me if we added Keuchel and Wilson Ramos then grabbed a guy to fill out the back of the rotation via trade instead of that 1yr economy deal via FA.  

[Blarg]

47 minutes ago, Tank said:

dude, play nicely. blarg has a room he might consider renting.

My son is moving out this month...

[Jeff Fletcher]

2 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I like it but I still can't give up Canning or Adell .  

Me neither. I said "anyone but Canning or Adell."

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Me neither. I said "anyone but Canning or Adell."

whoops.  didn't see the but.  Thought it read 1 of the two.  carry on.  

[Lou]

7 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

This is the worst analogy every created by a human being. Congratulations!

second place isn't even close. 

[greginpsca]

2 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I like it but I still can't give up Canning or Adell for only two years of control on Realmuto.  Cards gave up one top 100 for Ozuna  and two lesser guys to complete the deal.  He also had only two years of control left.  Adell is going to be a top ten prospect in all of baseball.  He's off the table for sure unless it's in a package for an ace that's locked up for awhile.   I don't view Canning as any better of a prospect than  Marsh but I think we need him more whereas we have redundancy in OF prospects.  I also think the Marlins would take just about any top prospect at this point and Marsh would actually be their #1.  I know your proposal is theoretical and I'm just splitting hairs but I don't want to give up any pitching in our top 20.  I know that's not likely, but it's the one area where we're a bit thin.  

I think your general template is spot on though.  

Add either solid position player or pitcher with some control via trade.  get the other via free agency.  
Add another back of the rotation arm
Sign a 4th OFer that is a borderline starter 
Add a util IFer
Create some payroll space
Extend Trout
Bring a couple of potential starters with comeback potential to camp and see what happens.  

Mine would be very similar. 

Instead of Sabathia, I'd keep Shoe and consider a more economical 1yr deal on a starter and grab a high leverage reliever.  I also think that Sabathia will be a yankee again.  
I like the descalso idea a lot.  I think they'll grab him or someone similar from the late Jan pool of those that haven't signed.  But descalso would work well in that he 'd likely be cheaper than someone like Marwin Gonzalez.  
It wouldn't bother me if we added Keuchel and Wilson Ramos then grabbed a guy to fill out the back of the rotation via trade instead of that 1yr economy deal via FA.  

Evidently the Marlins are talking about extending Realmuto. Even though he is under control for 2 more years. 

[Tank]

42 minutes ago, Lou said:

second place isn't even close. 

"If hate were people, you'd be China!"

- Phil in City Slickers

[kevinb]

14 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

OK, I'm going to take a whack at this. (This isn't necessarily what I would do, but what I think the Angels could do, based on my knowledge of their situation and what they value).

-Extend Mike Trout. Rip up old deal and give him 12 years,  $420M, reducing 2019 salary to $28M (saves $6M in cash flow for 19)

-Sign Patrick Corbin for 5/$100M or Dallas Keuchel for 4/$75M. (Either way, paying $16M in 2019)

-Sign CC Sabathia for 1/$10M

-Sign Phil Hughes for nothing (He's still being paid by the Twins)

-nontender JC Ramirez, Matt Shoemaker.

-trade for JT Realmuto (they can have 1 of anyone but Adell, Canning, then a 2nd in the 10-20 range, and a 3rd thats outside the top 30). He'll make about $5M.

-Sign UT Daniel Descalso for 1 yr, $5M

-Sign OF Jon Jay for 1 yr, $5M

----

Lineup: 3B Cozart, CF Trout, DH Ohtani, LF Upton, 1B Pujols, C Realmuto, SS Simons, RF Calhoun, 2B Fletcher.

Bench: Jay, Arcia/Briceno, Descalso, (JMF, Rengifo, Cowart, etc.)

Rotation: Keuchel/Corbin, Skaggs, Heaney, Sabathia, Barria. (Pena, Tropeano, Meyer, Bridwell, Canning in AAA)

Bullpen: Parker, Buttrey, Robles, Alvarez, Bedrosian, Anderson, (Middleton in June) plus some combination of Cole, Jerez, and whatever other gems Eppler finds on the waiver wire. 

----

This keeps the payroll about the same as 2018, in real money. It should be under the luxury tax, but it'll be close.

 

So you say this is what you think the Angels would do. What would you do?

[Jeff Fletcher]

6 hours ago, Kevinb said:

So you say this is what you think the Angels would do. What would you do?

I think this is one possible avenue that fits with what I believe are their priorities and philosophies. 

I think I would maybe just go for a lesser pitcher and have some more money for another infielder. I feel they have a more dire need in the infield than Eppler does, but he knows what Rengifo, Thaiss, Ward, Fletcher can do better than me. 

Maybe he also knows Canning and Suarez aren’t as close as we think they may be. 

 

[totdprods]

11 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I think this is one possible avenue that fits with what I believe are their priorities and philosophies. 

I think I would maybe just go for a lesser pitcher and have some more money for another infielder. I feel they have a more dire need in the infield than Eppler does, but he knows what Rengifo, Thaiss, Ward, Fletcher can do better than me. 

Maybe he also knows Canning and Suarez aren’t as close as we think they may be. 

One of your recent articles also seemed to hint that he wasn't banking on Barria being as reliable or at least leaned upon in 2019 either, which I think is wise. 

[WeatherWonk]

17 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

This is the worst analogy every created by a human being. Congratulations!

Apologies. I'll try and work in a reference to someone contracting AIDS, so that it has more appeal to you, next time.

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, WeatherWonk said:

Apologies. I'll try and work in a reference to someone contracting AIDS, so that it has more appeal to you, next time.

Thank you

[wopphil]

The more I think about it, the more Machado makes sense. He would fill a void at third that has existed for many years now, and would be nice shortstop insurance in the event we lose Simmons in two years.

And Corbin is an absolute must.

[Jeff Fletcher]

53 minutes ago, wopphil said:

The more I think about it, the more Machado makes sense. He would fill a void at third that has existed for many years now, and would be nice shortstop insurance in the event we lose Simmons in two years.

And Corbin is an absolute must.

Remember that tweet about Machado’s hustle last week?

I heard some more about him last night at the Dodgers game. 

Ill pass.

[wopphil]

23 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Remember that tweet about Machado’s hustle last week?

I heard some more about him last night at the Dodgers game. 

Ill pass.

Didn't read that tweet. I presume there was an issue with his hustle/attitude?

Jeff, how do you think Bryce Harper would perform defensively in Angel Stadium? His defensive metrics this year were bad, but I wonder how much of that could be mitigated by park (like Manny Ramirez in Biston).

[Jeff Fletcher]

2 minutes ago, wopphil said:

Didn't read that tweet. I presume there was an issue with his hustle/attitude?

Jeff, how do you think Bryce Harper would perform defensively in Angel Stadium? His defensive metrics this year were bad, but I wonder how much of that could be mitigated by park (like Manny Ramirez in Biston).

I have no clue. I haven’t seen enough of Bryce Harper. 

I also think there’s almost no chance (never say never) that the Angels sign him. 

[Docwaukee]

My initial thought is that we're getting neither Harper nor Machado if Trout stays long term.  If for whatever reason that not going to happen, I was initially most interested in Machado because he plays an IF position and has been more consistent.  Plus, he's also a very good 3b defender.  

But here's my take on Machado now.  The dude has to be an absolute pinhead.  You get traded to a team that has a very good chance to win the world series and you're in a contract year on the verge of becoming one of the highest paid players of all time.  Yet you can run out ground ball and your effort in general is being called into question?  What an idiot.  

It may not cost him any money, but it certainly could.  If he can't hustle now, what's he gonna be like after you pay him $300mil.  On top of that, the team he's not hustling for is likely one that would be involved in the bidding as it comes time.  You've gotta believe other teams are going to have less interest because of this as well.  And from what I understand, he's completely unapologetic about it.  

Honestly, I don't think he cracks $300m because of this and may not even get to $250m.  I could see him getting 9 years in the 27-30m per range.  Frankly, I want no part of the guy.