The official (slightly early) off season discussion thread. Let's hear your plan.

[WeatherWonk]

On 10/2/2018 at 10:04 AM, ten ocho recon scout said:

If trout signs the richest contract in baseball history this winter, will you still call the team cheap?

Between trout and pujols, the angels have 2 of the top 10 highest players in baseball. Upton is top 20. 

 

Scoreboard, baby.

Balance sheets don't win playoff games.

We've had Trout and Upton for a stretch drive and a full season.

It will take more than internal machinations .

[Stradling]

Upton has a full no trade clause..

[Jeff Fletcher]

OK, I'm going to take a whack at this. (This isn't necessarily what I would do, but what I think the Angels could do, based on my knowledge of their situation and what they value).

-Extend Mike Trout. Rip up old deal and give him 12 years,  $420M, reducing 2019 salary to $28M (saves $6M in cash flow for 19)

-Sign Patrick Corbin for 5/$100M or Dallas Keuchel for 4/$75M. (Either way, paying $16M in 2019)

-Sign CC Sabathia for 1/$10M

-Sign Phil Hughes for nothing (He's still being paid by the Twins)

-nontender JC Ramirez, Matt Shoemaker.

-trade for JT Realmuto (they can have 1 of anyone but Adell, Canning, then a 2nd in the 10-20 range, and a 3rd thats outside the top 30). He'll make about $5M.

-Sign UT Daniel Descalso for 1 yr, $5M

-Sign OF Jon Jay for 1 yr, $5M

----

Lineup: 3B Cozart, CF Trout, DH Ohtani, LF Upton, 1B Pujols, C Realmuto, SS Simons, RF Calhoun, 2B Fletcher.

Bench: Jay, Arcia/Briceno, Descalso, (JMF, Rengifo, Cowart, etc.)

Rotation: Keuchel/Corbin, Skaggs, Heaney, Sabathia, Barria. (Pena, Tropeano, Meyer, Bridwell, Canning in AAA)

Bullpen: Parker, Buttrey, Robles, Alvarez, Bedrosian, Anderson, (Middleton in June) plus some combination of Cole, Jerez, and whatever other gems Eppler finds on the waiver wire. 

----

This keeps the payroll about the same as 2018, in real money. It should be under the luxury tax, but it'll be close.

 

Edited October 4, 2018 by Jeff Fletcher

[totdprods]

Great plan @Jeff Fletcher, brilliant idea re-structuring Trout's deal to ease the luxury tax amount.

The Realmuto package feels a little light...I think it'd take at least two Top 10s.

Love the Sabathia and Hughes adds, but that becomes a very lefty-heavy rotation. Who does Hughes push out? Is he in pen, bumping Barria, or a 6-man? 

[arch stanton]

If it plays out that Cozart and Fletcher are both regulars is it a given that Cozart would play 3rd? I thought Fletcher did a pretty good job there 

[Jeff Fletcher]

6 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Great plan @Jeff Fletcher, brilliant idea re-structuring Trout's deal to ease the luxury tax amount.

The Realmuto package feels a little light...I think it'd take at least two Top 10s.

Love the Sabathia and Hughes adds, but that becomes a very lefty-heavy rotation. Who does Hughes push out? Is he in pen, bumping Barria, or a 6-man? 

Trout's restructure actually eases the real-payroll amount, not the luxury tax amount. Right now he's got a real salary of $34M and a luxury tax number of $24M, so we'd basically be flipping it back, so his real salary would be $28M and his luxury tax salary would be $35M.

Realmuto is great, but it's only for 2 years. There's some wiggle room there. Whatever. 

And Hughes is just coming to camp and showing what he's got. Maybe he doesn't even make the team. I'm not worried about having too many healthy starters.

And if you don't want so many lefties, you can replace CC with Gio Gonzalez or Lance Lynn or someone else.

Edited October 4, 2018 by Jeff Fletcher

[Jeff Fletcher]

3 minutes ago, arch stanton said:

If it plays out that Cozart and Fletcher are both regulars is it a given that Cozart would play 3rd? I thought Fletcher did a pretty good job there 

Either way.

[Jeff Fletcher]

18 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

And if you don't want so many lefties, you can replace CC with Gio Gonzalez or Lance Lynn or someone else.

Honestly you could probably do without that spot entirely. Keep Shoemaker and just hope that he or Peña or Tropeano or Hughes or someone takes that last spot. 

Then there’s a little more wiggle room left to make a trade or even sign a cheap reliever. 

Edited October 4, 2018 by Jeff Fletcher

[Blarg]

Honestly I do not want Trout on a 12 year deal. That's age 39 when it ends or another wish we hadn't done that deal. You want to make it ten with a couple of team options then it makes sense.

But seeing Trout trying to push a late 30's body after so much hard use in the outfield just isn't appealing. Yeah, there is the DH in the AL (which is why Philly isn't a match) but there is also no steroids propping up players. Natural decline is even going to be a factor for Mike. I'd rather he go out gracefully rather than this horrible mess with Pujols.

[floplag]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

OK, I'm going to take a whack at this. (This isn't necessarily what I would do, but what I think the Angels could do, based on my knowledge of their situation and what they value).

-Extend Mike Trout. Rip up old deal and give him 12 years,  $420M, reducing 2019 salary to $28M (saves $6M in cash flow for 19)

-Sign Patrick Corbin for 5/$100M or Dallas Keuchel for 4/$75M. (Either way, paying $16M in 2019)

-Sign CC Sabathia for 1/$10M

-Sign Phil Hughes for nothing (He's still being paid by the Twins)

-nontender JC Ramirez, Matt Shoemaker.

-trade for JT Realmuto (they can have 1 of anyone but Adell, Canning, then a 2nd in the 10-20 range, and a 3rd thats outside the top 30). He'll make about $5M.

-Sign UT Daniel Descalso for 1 yr, $5M

-Sign OF Jon Jay for 1 yr, $5M

----

Lineup: 3B Cozart, CF Trout, DH Ohtani, LF Upton, 1B Pujols, C Realmuto, SS Simons, RF Calhoun, 2B Fletcher.

Bench: Jay, Arcia/Briceno, Descalso, (JMF, Rengifo, Cowart, etc.)

Rotation: Keuchel/Corbin, Skaggs, Heaney, Sabathia, Barria. (Pena, Tropeano, Meyer, Bridwell, Canning in AAA)

Bullpen: Parker, Buttrey, Robles, Alvarez, Bedrosian, plus some combination of Cole, Jerez, and whatever other gems Eppler finds on the waiver wire. 

----

This keeps the payroll about the same as 2018, in real money. It should be under the luxury tax, but it'll be close.

 

I like a lot of this but i t gave me a thought, do you think it possible they could perhaps get both Corbin and Keuchel?  Forget Sabathia and Hughes, roll with the depth we have for the rest. 

Its near the same money or within 5 mil or so maybe if you remove CCs 10.  My thoughts on starters is known but if were going to go that way why not go hard?  Ive maintained that one guy wont help that much if we ignore other areas, but both is a different discussion that i didnt think feasible, but your numbers make me thing maybe it would be if those worked.

Corbin, Keuchel, Realmuto deal, profit?. 
I do think we need more of a true everyday 1B guy since Ohtani wont be DHing till probably mid season.    I also floated the idea of Calhoun as part of 1B if we were to sign another OF (Harper), but if we go hard on arms that seems unlikely. 

[UndertheHalo]

28 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Honestly I do not want Trout on a 12 year deal. That's age 39 when it ends or another wish we hadn't done that deal. You want to make it ten with a couple of team options then it makes sense.

But seeing Trout trying to push a late 30's body after so much hard use in the outfield just isn't appealing. Yeah, there is the DH in the AL (which is why Philly isn't a match) but there is also no steroids propping up players. Natural decline is even going to be a factor for Mike. I'd rather he go out gracefully rather than this horrible mess with Pujols.

Would you rather lose him in 2 years ? I think we’re pretty safe betting that the Angels will get more out of a Trout 10-12 year contract then we got out of Albert Pujols.  

Losing Trout after the 2020 season would be a huge set back for the Angels near, mid, or long term prospects of winning a championship.  It would be disaster.  

I don’t think there’s any possibility of signing Trout to a contract that’s less then 8 years. 

Edited October 4, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[ten ocho recon scout]

20 hours ago, WeatherWonk said:

Scoreboard, baby.

Balance sheets don't win playoff games.

We've had Trout and Upton for a stretch drive and a full season.

It will take more than internal machinations .

Youre deflecting. And doing a shitty job of it.

Ill ask again. When you call the team cheap, which was the post i was responding to, i again ask if signing trout to the most expensive contract in history, with another top 5 contract in history and a current top 20 would change your mind.

Of course it wont.

[totdprods]

12 minutes ago, floplag said:

I like a lot of this but i t gave me a thought, do you think it possible they could perhaps get both Corbin and Keuchel?  Forget Sabathia and Hughes, roll with the depth we have for the rest. 

That feels like a great way to repeat Weaver/Wilson contract headaches. 
Also, that's four lefties in the rotation, with Suarez and Sandoval in the wings, though obviously those two and Heaney/Skaggs could then be turned towards trade discussions.

[floplag]

1 minute ago, totdprods said:

That feels like a great way to repeat Weaver/Wilson contract headaches. 
Also, that's four lefties in the rotation, with Suarez and Sandoval in the wings, though obviously those two and Heaney/Skaggs could then be turned towards trade discussions.

Perhaps, and a fair point, but its also the only way to mitigate the bullpen concerns.  One guy doesnt do that, 2 helps a lot more.   Just a curiosity, nothing more
Heck we have enough depth that if were seeing too many good LH hitters in a series spot start a rightie. 

[tdawg87]

44 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Honestly I do not want Trout on a 12 year deal. That's age 39 when it ends or another wish we hadn't done that deal. You want to make it ten with a couple of team options then it makes sense.

But seeing Trout trying to push a late 30's body after so much hard use in the outfield just isn't appealing. Yeah, there is the DH in the AL (which is why Philly isn't a match) but there is also no steroids propping up players. Natural decline is even going to be a factor for Mike. I'd rather he go out gracefully rather than this horrible mess with Pujols.

Shut up

[totdprods]

Just now, floplag said:

Perhaps, and a fair point, but its also the only way to mitigate the bullpen concerns.  One guy doesnt do that, 2 helps a lot more.   Just a curiosity, nothing more
Heck we have enough depth that if were seeing too many good LH hitters in a series spot start a rightie. 

I also think we'd have a tough time getting really the only above-average FA arms together...we'd probably be overpaying twice. 

As much as we need quality innings, we also simply need innings. 

[Blarg]

10 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Shut up

No. 

[tdawg87]

7 minutes ago, Blarg said:

No. 

Pls

[floplag]

24 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I also think we'd have a tough time getting really the only above-average FA arms together...we'd probably be overpaying twice. 

As much as we need quality innings, we also simply need innings. 

no that i dont agree with.  We got inning this years from a variety of sources, if were going down this road we need better innings not just more innings from less guys 

[WeatherWonk]

33 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Youre deflecting. And doing a shitty job of it.

Ill ask again. When you call the team cheap, which was the post i was responding to, i again ask if signing trout to the most expensive contract in history, with another top 5 contract in history and a current top 20 would change your mind.

Of course it wont.

I didnt call the team cheap. You put those words down. Not me.

I said that Arte is wearing his salary cap again. And we will likely try and find solutions from within, instead of outside.  That's the logical conclusion, based on Fletcher's observation.

Locking up Trout doesnt improve this team for the next year..............which is what this thread is about, last time I checked. Locking up Trout is immaterial to the discussion about NEXT YEAR. In fact, it could severely limit what the Angels can do next year.

Nice try on the alternative facts, Kelly Anne. 

But the fact that STILL remains..............scoreboard, baby. Three straight losing years, WITH Trout.

What good is a Cadillac if it sits in the garage at playoff time? 

 

[Lou]

28 team owners wore their salary caps this season.

[ten ocho recon scout]

11 minutes ago, WeatherWonk said:

I didnt call the team cheap. You put those words down. Not me.

Nice try on the alternative facts, Kelly Anne. 

 

Youre right. Nothing in there about being cheap....carry on

[Lou]

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[Lou]

19 minutes ago, WeatherWonk said:

Locking up Trout doesnt improve this team for the next year..............which is what this thread is about, last time I checked. Locking up Trout is immaterial to the discussion about NEXT YEAR.

check again.

this thread is about the offseason plans. 

[Lou]

Cadillacs have playoffs?