The official (slightly early) off season discussion thread. Let's hear your plan.

[Docwaukee]

21 hours ago, floplag said:

I have what in my mind would be a great plan, though most here would not agree with it and there is little point to rehashing the same arguments again...  instead ill say this, if there was ever a time to blow past the lux tax and take that risk for a couple/few years, this is it.  Do i think it will happen, no, i dont, but i remain hopeful.

This front office is notoriously tight lipped and generally say little about tis plan, so i cant help but wonder if all the open talk to date could possibly be misdirection?  im sure thats just wishful thinking. 

This FA class is like no other ive seen in a very long time, it may not line up with our budget and other concerns, but to let it pass without getting involved would be a damn shame. 

throw it out there you @#$%#$ (scalawag) . Every plan has warts.  Even Epplers.  clearly.  

I'm suggesting stuff like trade Skaggs for Eugenio Suarez or Nick Senzel.  Some people are including Machado and Harper in their plan.  

What's the big deal.  You want a rock solid pen and a dynamic offense right?  let's argue about it.  who cares.  

[tdawg87]

Just imagine a 3-4-5 of Harper-Pujols-Ohtani

[Docwaukee]

this franchise wouldn't let it's GM pick an entirely new coaching staff for the next three years if it wasn't sure said GM would still be in charge for that time outside of something really bizarre happening like the GM just walking out one day.  Which never happens.  right? 

 

[floplag]

19 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

throw it out there you @#$%#$ (scalawag) . Every plan has warts.  Even Epplers.  clearly.  

I'm suggesting stuff like trade Skaggs for Eugenio Suarez or Nick Senzel.  Some people are including Machado and Harper in their plan.  

What's the big deal.  You want a rock solid pen and a dynamic offense right?  let's argue about it.  who cares.  

Its just that the same old arguments get really old and pointless... but fine...  not necessarily all of these as that wont work money wise and some are redundant, but these were the ideas I had in mind.

#1 All around catcher.  Trade for Realmuto would be the obvious first choice, alternatively sign Grandal/Ramos.  i would trade almost anyone to make this happen, ill be clear about that.  I would prefer to keep Adell above all else, but if i can get Realmuto, almost anything is on the table.  Grandal is far less likely now due to QO but that was the plan before that so i wont omit it.  The length and term of the deal would depend on which way it goes as i see a pretty fair difference between them.   If Ramos gets too expensive, just try to bring back Maldonado so at least we dont have to worry about the  D side and fix offense in other places.

#2 Moustakis.  Solidifies 3B, can play 1B as needed, shifts the winner of the Cozart/Fletcher battle to 2B where they belong the other to util.  shoot for 2-3 year deal something like 3/27 perhaps ( allowing for hometown discount, if he really wants tto play closer to home).

#3 4th OF/1B.  Marwin Gonzalez was my first choice here for obvious reasons.  Now that Brantley is possible available maybe go that way and shift Kole to 1B.  This would likely be the most expensive one i think.  If we go either of these routes than it pushes Adell to likely take Uptons place, assuming Trout is still on the club at that time. 

#4 Anchor in the pen, Kelly perhaps.  Someone to give the kids a shoulder to lean on as they grow and take some of the pressure off them now.  Must have exceptional stuff, ala Kelly's fastball, which would make a good tutor to the youth with similar makeup.

#5  #1 1B, Why not Murphy, fits well checks the boxes.  2 year deal at most while Thaiss gets ready.

#6 SP.  if there's anything left or something that makes obvious sense, fine, otherwise roll with the depth we have and try to shorten the games.

I understand some of those block some of the kids, but when the kids are ready, Rengifo/Thaiss/Ward for example if they are better then they get the job and we look to trade whoever is there, but waiting for the kids or plugging them in too early hasnt worked well with us, we need answers, not more questions.   If the kids develop faster than expected, sounds like a good problem to have to me.

Coincidentally im also assuming that Albert will not play a full season, and that this might be his last.  There are things that matter to a player like him, his legacy for example, and i dont think he wasnt to see his career AVG slip under 300, which it obviously will if he plays another 2-3 at current levels.  so unless he has some sort of resurgence, im guessing his time will lessen as the season goes on as a part time player and he will retire at the end of the year with the second half being a farewell tour of sorts including the trip back to StL. 

That in a nutshell is where i am.   I dont see a couple SP making us contenders without offensive upgrades and im not on board with the win in 2021 plan. 

[floplag]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

I am guessing an extension is coming, probably after free agency, although it might be helpful if it is taken care of prior to free agency, but that seems less likely.  

As for Arte, he better buy into the long term plan because if he truly has tighten the purse strings (which I believe is overstated) then he is going to need young guys to come up and do their job at league minimum so he can still pay for Albert, Upton, Trout and his extension, as well as hopefully Simmons and his possibly extension.  

Probably true, its just one of those things that make you go hmmm..

[Docwaukee]

22 hours ago, floplag said:

Its just that the same old arguments get really old and pointless... but fine...  not necessarily all of these as that wont work money wise and some are redundant, but these were the ideas I had in mind.

#1 All around catcher.  Trade for Realmuto would be the obvious first choice, alternatively sign Grandal/Ramos.  i would trade almost anyone to make this happen, ill be clear about that.  I would prefer to keep Adell above all else, but if i can get Realmuto, almost anything is on the table.  Grandal is far less likely now due to QO but that was the plan before that so i wont omit it.  The length and term of the deal would depend on which way it goes as i see a pretty fair difference between them.   If Ramos gets too expensive, just try to bring back Maldonado so at least we dont have to worry about the  D side and fix offense in other places.

#2 Moustakis.  Solidifies 3B, can play 1B as needed, shifts the winner of the Cozart/Fletcher battle to 2B where they belong the other to util.  shoot for 2-3 year deal something like 3/27 perhaps ( allowing for hometown discount, if he really wants tto play closer to home).

#3 4th OF/1B.  Marwin Gonzalez was my first choice here for obvious reasons.  Now that Brantley is possible available maybe go that way and shift Kole to 1B.  This would likely be the most expensive one i think.  If we go either of these routes than it pushes Adell to likely take Uptons place, assuming Trout is still on the club at that time. 

#4 Anchor in the pen, Kelly perhaps.  Someone to give the kids a shoulder to lean on as they grow and take some of the pressure off them now.  Must have exceptional stuff, ala Kelly's fastball, which would make a good tutor to the youth with similar makeup.

#5  #1 1B, Why not Murphy, fits well checks the boxes.  2 year deal at most while Thaiss gets ready.

#6 SP.  if there's anything left or something that makes obvious sense, fine, otherwise roll with the depth we have and try to shorten the games.

I understand some of those block some of the kids, but when the kids are ready, Rengifo/Thaiss/Ward for example if they are better then they get the job and we look to trade whoever is there, but waiting for the kids or plugging them in too early hasnt worked well with us, we need answers, not more questions.   If the kids develop faster than expected, sounds like a good problem to have to me.

Coincidentally im also assuming that Albert will not play a full season, and that this might be his last.  There are things that matter to a player like him, his legacy for example, and i dont think he wasnt to see his career AVG slip under 300, which it obviously will if he plays another 2-3 at current levels.  so unless he has some sort of resurgence, im guessing his time will lessen as the season goes on as a part time player and he will retire at the end of the year with the second half being a farewell tour of sorts including the trip back to StL. 

That in a nutshell is where i am.   I dont see a couple SP making us contenders without offensive upgrades and im not on board with the win in 2021 plan. 

the only things I wouldn't really consider here are the Realmuto trade and the signing of Kelly.  

Not that I don't want a C or anchor for the pen, but I'd rather go a different route.  

I'm actually not totally sold on Kelly as he's entering age 31 and has one good season as a reliever over the last three.  Mostly, he's pretty erratic with a high walk rate.  Personally think he's being overrated because of a couple nice outings during the WS.  I'd prefer someone with more experience like a Cody Allen or Zach Britton but I really like a lot of the arms we've already got and think Eppler will stick with them.  

I just can't get past the two years of control for Realmuto AND giving up Adell.  That just makes me sad.  I am hoping Eppler can get a little creative here like a Chirinos/Brian McCann platoon.  Both will likely require 1yr deals and they both have good splits (Chirinos vs. LHers and McCann vs. Rhers).  They can also both play 1b which would be a requirement.  

Not opposed to Moustakas, Murphy or Gonzalez and as you mentioned there's some redundancy there.  Gonzalez probably gets paid the most and is the most versatile.  Murphy is the best hitter and Moustakas is decent all around.  I'd be fine with any one of the three.  Whoever seems like the best value (not necessarily the cheapest).  Still think Descalso is underrated as pointed out by @Jeff Fletcher and would also consider Donaldson at the right price.  Jung Ho Kang could also be an interesting option as he can play multiple positions but has had some off field issues.  

I would still prioritize at least one rotation arm early and then wait to see who is left toward the end and grab another.  Like Lance Lynn early on a 2/20 and then wait for the dust to settle and grab a couple guys that Doug White can work his magic with like Tyson Ross, Hellickson, Miley, Buchholz etc on 1yr deals for 5-6 mil each.   

All of this would cost more than they'll want to spend but to me, that's how we stay competitive while still protecting the young players while they develop.  

 

[floplag]

4 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

the only things I wouldn't really consider here are the Realmuto trade and the signing of Kelly.  

Not that I don't want a C or anchor for the pen, but I'd rather go a different route.  

I'm actually not totally sold on Kelly as he's entering age 31 and has one good season as a reliever over the last three.  Mostly, he's pretty erratic with a high walk rate.  Personally think he's being overrated because of a couple nice outings during the WS.  I'd prefer someone with more experience like a Cody Allen or Zach Britton but I really like a lot of the arms we've already got and think Eppler will stick with them.  

I just can't get past the two years of control for Realmuto AND giving up Adell.  That just makes me sad.  I am hoping Eppler can get a little creative here like a Chirinos/Brian McCann platoon.  Both will likely require 1yr deals and they both have good splits (Chirinos vs. LHers and McCann vs. Rhers).  They can also both play 1b which would be a requirement.  

Not opposed to Moustakas, Murphy or Gonzalez and as you mentioned there's some redundancy there.  Gonzalez probably gets paid the most and is the most versatile.  Murphy is the best hitter and Moustakas is decent all around.  I'd be fine with any one of the three.  Whoever seems like the best value (not necessarily the cheapest).  Still think Descalso is underrated as pointed out by @Jeff Fletcher and would also consider Donaldson at the right price.  Jung Ho Kang could also be an interesting option as he can play multiple positions but has had some off field issues.  

I would still prioritize at least one rotation arm early and then wait to see who is left toward the end and grab another.  Like Lance Lynn early on a 2/20 and then wait for the dust to settle and grab a couple guys that Doug White can work his magic with like Tyson Ross, Hellickson, Miley, Buchholz etc on 1yr deals for 5-6 mil each.   

All of this would cost more than they'll want to spend but to me, that's how we stay competitive while still protecting the young players while they develop.  

 

Nothing says we have to give up Adell in that deal.  Obviously i would prefer not to and i dont think it would be necessary.

[Jeff Fletcher]

On 10/31/2018 at 3:48 PM, True Grich said:

I like Cutch. I like him as a baseball player and he does a lot of great things in the community, but I am done with signing players like him who are past their prime and due to regress.  I know he might be an upgrade, but I would just rather not sign a guy like him.  I doubt OF is a priority for the Angels tight now - I think they're going to ride it out with Calhoun.  My preference is to sign a guy like Marwin Gonzalez, but he's an obvious target for obvious reasons. 

The Angels believe in Kole Calhoun 2.0, plus they now promoted the hitting coach who helped give birth to Kole Calhoun 2.0.

They believe in Calhoun, and certainly believe Adell will be close behind.

You guys are certainly free to give your opinion on Calhoun and what you would do, but in my role as someone who is supposed to tell you what they are going to do (not what I think) I’m telling you that they aren’t spending any serious resources on an OF. 

I think they very well may even just roll with Hermosillo as the 4th and not add anyone. 

Carry on...

[tdawg87]

Season over.

[Second Base]

3 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

The Angels believe in Kole Calhoun 2.0, plus they now promoted the hitting coach who helped give birth to Kole Calhoun 2.0.

They believe in Calhoun, and certainly believe Adell will be close behind.

You guys are certainly free to give your opinion on Calhoun and what you would do, but in my role as someone who is supposed to tell you what they are going to do (not what I think) I’m telling you that they aren’t spending any serious resources on an OF. 

I think they very well may even just roll with Hermosillo as the 4th and not add anyone. 

Carry on...

And the more I think about that, the more I'm fine with it. While I don't share their confidence in Kole Calhoun at all, I recognize that there's only so much money to spend and the Angels probably aren't going to be winning the division in 2019 anyway. They need to put together a team that's good enough to where if things go right, they're the wild card team, and if things go wrong, those guys they signed can be flipped at the deadline for more prospects. It's only one more year of Calhoun and while the inconsistency can drive a fan up the wall, Adell is coming soon. 

And if that 30-35 million is their budget this year, and guys like Moustakas and Murphy really only cost 8-10 million, they very well could afford a new 2B or 3B, and still spend 15 million on one starter and 10 million on another and look decent heading into next season. That very well could be JA Happ and Gio Gonzalez.

I can't say with any certainty that's a playoff team, but they look to be .500 at worst and 90-95 win at best. I know that's a broad range, but it sets the team up nicely for 2020 and beyond. 

[Docwaukee]

I've been assuming Kole would get the starting gig in 2019.   I do hope they cover their bases with a decent 4th OFer.  I'd rather see Herm get consistent at bats in AAA still.  

[Tank]

yeah, count me in the camp that would like to see an experienced 4th OF instead of another shot for hermosillo right now. let him go back to AAA and work on whatever hitting problems he had in anaheim last year.

[Stradling]

I read someone on FB suggest the Angels trade for Julio Teheran.  At first I didn’t care for the idea, but when I look at it in a way it makes sense.  Eppler wants some consistency in the rotation.  Teheran has started at least 30 games in each of the past 6 seasons.  He is under control for 2 years and about $23 million, but the second year of that is a team option, so if he is awful you aren’t on the hook for the 2nd year at $12 million.  He is also going into his age 28 season, so you could say he has upside.  He is far from perfect, he isn’t a dominant pitcher, he gives up more than a homer per 9.  His WHIP isn’t great but it is still under 1.2 for his career.  He walks more than you’d like to see, but also k’s 8 per 9.  If we are looking for someone that will take the ball every 5th day for an entire season you could do worse.  

[Stradling]

12 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I've been assuming Kole would get the starting gig in 2019.   I do hope they cover their bases with a decent 4th OFer.  I'd rather see Herm get consistent at bats in AAA still.  

I think Hermosillo is the 4th outfielder if they spend all their off season money on pitching.  I’ll be honest, that would be fine with me, if they upgrade the rotation and the pen and go with Herm as 4th outfielder.  I also could see Fletcher playing some outfield if needed.  

[totdprods]

25 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I think Hermosillo is the 4th outfielder if they spend all their off season money on pitching.  I’ll be honest, that would be fine with me, if they upgrade the rotation and the pen and go with Herm as 4th outfielder.  I also could see Fletcher playing some outfield if needed.  

I still see a path where they decide to rely on the youth heavily this year to see how they respond - it could play a big part in how they view their 3-5 year plan. Are they really a year or two away, or do they feel it is going to be more of a 3-4 year development period for the young guys to adapt and mesh? Trout aside, they have a lot of decisions fairly soon with most of the pen, Skaggs, Simmons, Cozart, and Calhoun. 

Maybe not Opening Day roster, but following the successes of Barria and Fletcher, I could see the Angels almost standing pat and rolling into the year with the expectation that Canning or Suarez follows Barria and will give them 25+ starts, Herm sinks or swims as the 4th OF, Thaiss platooning with Bert, Adell gets a cup of coffee...

That could mean they buy very low, focus on one-year deals, a lot of cheap bounce back candidates, or guys with one or two standout skills and other question marks, and view them less as in-season help, but more as midseason trade bait. If Eppler can recreate a couple more Maldonado and Kinsler trades this July, it really sets up the farm.

I think this will be one of the more interesting offseasons of Eppler's tenure, and hardest to predict. A solid argument can be made for virtually any path; going all-in, playing it safe and shopping cheaply once again, or relying more heavily on prospects, perhaps even shopping some players. There are so many new variables in play versus year's past.

[Second Base]

6 hours ago, Stradling said:

I think Hermosillo is the 4th outfielder if they spend all their off season money on pitching.  I’ll be honest, that would be fine with me, if they upgrade the rotation and the pen and go with Herm as 4th outfielder.  I also could see Fletcher playing some outfield if needed.  

I think the 4th OF will be a minor league signing that costs practically nothing, so that Hermosillo can continue to develop in AAA.  Pretty much EY2 again. 

[Second Base]

Ok so here's version four. 

1. Brian McCann 1/5. 

2. Trade for Jake Lamb to play 3B and a little 1B. (5-6 million in arb?)

3. Sign Yusei Kikuchi 5/50. 

4. Sign CC Sabathia 1/9. 

[T.G.]

I think the Angels will sign a veteran to be the 4th OFer.  Seems to be the direction they go in year in and year out. I could see a reunion with Cameron Maybin.

[Angelsfan1984]

33 minutes ago, True Grich said:

I think the Angels will sign a veteran to be the 4th OFer.  Seems to be the direction they go in year in and year out. I could see a reunion with Cameron Maybin.

I can also see a guy like Marwin Gonzales coming in and rotating between 4th OF and 1B. Hes a switch hitter on top of that...I don't know how he fares defensively enough to lock him in as an Eppler target.

[Pancake Bear]

1 hour ago, Second Base said:

Ok so here's version four. 

1. Brian McCann 1/5. 

2. Trade for Jake Lamb to play 3B and a little 1B. (5-6 million in arb?)

3. Sign Yusei Kikuchi 5/50. 

4. Sign CC Sabathia 1/9. 

Just read today that Cashman wants to re-sign Sabathia. If the Yankees want him back, I don't see him leaving. Which is a bummer, because a think he'd fit in well in the Angels' rotation.

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Sean-Regan said:

Just read today that Cashman wants to re-sign Sabathia. If the Yankees want him back, I don't see him leaving. Which is a bummer, because a think he'd fit in well in the Angels' rotation.

the pretty much the only thing he fits in.  

[TroutField]

3 hours ago, Second Base said:

Ok so here's version four. 

1. Brian McCann 1/5. 

2. Trade for Jake Lamb to play 3B and a little 1B. (5-6 million in arb?)

3. Sign Yusei Kikuchi 5/50. 

4. Sign CC Sabathia 1/9. 

I’d be very happy with this. 

[Second Base]

1 hour ago, TroutField said:

I’d be very happy with this. 

I'd be even happier with a Trout extension at the end of it, but this would do for now. Couple of decent pitchers to stabilize the staff, some upside in Kikuchi. McCann isn't who he was at catcher, but between him and Kevan Smith I feel we'll get some offensive production for the first time since early in Iannetta's tenure here. And Lamb gives us some upside in the corner infield. Definitely a breakout candidate and he's controllable for two years.

Not a great offseason, but I think it would set the team up to be competitive in 2019 and much, much better in 2020.