Cleveland Indians changing their team name

[Docwaukee]

I want to lock this thread so bad.  

[Taylor]

3 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I want to lock this thread so bad.  

I'm surprised you guys haven't moved it to the Spin Forum.

[ukyah]

7 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I want to lock this thread so bad.  

[Docwaukee]

5 minutes ago, Taylor said:

I'm surprised you guys haven't moved it to the Spin Forum.

I'm sitting here watching the game with head phones on waiting for someone to break my wife's favorite vase.  

then it'll be 'take that shit outside dammit!!'.  

[Taylor]

7 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I'm sitting here watching the game with head phones on waiting for someone to break my wife's favorite vase.  

then it'll be 'take that shit outside dammit!!'.  

Breaking doc's wife's vase is one circle of hell beyond shitting on Chuck's couch.

[ukyah]

10 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I'm sitting here watching the game with head phones on waiting for someone to break my wife's favorite vase.  

then it'll be 'take that shit outside dammit!!'.  

you must really not like that vase, you devious bastard.

[Docwaukee]

Just now, ukyah said:

you must really not like that vase, you devious bastard.

[AngelsLakersFan]

2 hours ago, Blarg said:

I agree. 

Yup. No one says it's moral but the future and the history it becomes will continue to be written by those with the power to will it into existence, not the people who stand in the way of it.

[ten ocho recon scout]

5 hours ago, Taylor said:

Australia was especially harsh on its native peoples. Canada has a sordid history, too.

Doesn't excuse what America did, or give us a pass to make mascots out of marginalized groups of people.

That would be like an abusive boss saying to you, "Stop criticizing me. Our rival company also has abusive bosses!"

The Native Americans brutalized each other. The Mexican / Indian wars were brutal. The Aztecs were brutal. Etc etc.

All of Africa shit on each other. African slavers raided europe for white slaves. Europe all fought itself for a millenia. The middle east is filled with a history of slavery and genocide. He Roman empire. Ghengis khan.... japanese imperialism etc etc

 

The point being, this isnt an american thing. Or a white thing. Its a human thing. 

No one is suggesting forgetting it happened. But taken in context, its pretty ancient history. And its not in any way unique.

[ten ocho recon scout]

2 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

They didn't "merely lose" - they were invaded, colonized and enslaved. 

This isn't propaganda. Actually, the point of Zinn-esque narratives is to deflate the propaganda that we've all been raised on.

Whether or not they fought among themselves has nothing to do with what European colonizers did - it doesn't justify it. Colonialists have used that sort of crap to justify their actions for centuries, whether it is bringing the light "true religion" or civilizing the "savages." 

Yes, history has been shaped by such factors - but the whole point of progressivism is to try to move beyond the dog-eat-dog mentality. We are, hopefully, evolving. Rape and pillage used to be commonplace...that doesn't mean we should continue to do so.

And again, youre missing the part about the strongest indian tribes wiped out the weaker ones before the europeans ever arrived.... and they did that by way of the exact same techniques, just with different technologies.

The mexicans and indians fought the exact same brutal wars america did with the natives. 

Had America stayed in its lane, and never expanded past the original colonies, the Mexicans at one point or another would have done the same thing to the native americans..... and the native tribes would have continued trying to expand their own territories. 

[Blarg]

Oh FFS, idiots, this a baseball team not some stupid junior college debate. They probably will end up in third place in their division and nobody is going to care what their names are because they will still be in Cleveland. 

[Docwaukee]

5 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Oh FFS, idiots, this a baseball team not some stupid junior college debate. They probably will end up in third place in their division and nobody is going to care what their names are because they will still be in Cleveland. 

you're just pissed because everyone got high and ate all your kale chips.  

[ukyah]

52 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Oh FFS, idiots, this a baseball team not some stupid junior college debate. They probably will end up in third place in their division and nobody is going to care what their names are because they will still be in Cleveland. 

it's ok, bro. i didn't get invited to the kegger either.

[Blarg]

51 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

you're just pissed because everyone got high and ate all your kale chips.  

I think you have me mistaken for Tank. 

[Lou]

18 minutes ago, ukyah said:

it's ok, bro. i didn't get invited to the kegger either.

I did 

[Docwaukee]

23 minutes ago, Lou said:

I did 

let me guess...

[Tank]

12 hours ago, Jay said:

They could be the Rockers, if it wasn't so similar to Rockies.

What else do they have in Cleveland?

Cleveland Lakers

[Lou]

18 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

let me guess...

It may surprise you.

[Cosmo_Kramer]

3 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

The Native Americans brutalized each other. The Mexican / Indian wars were brutal. The Aztecs were brutal. Etc etc.

All of Africa shit on each other. African slavers raided europe for white slaves. Europe all fought itself for a millenia. The middle east is filled with a history of slavery and genocide. He Roman empire. Ghengis khan.... japanese imperialism etc etc

 

The point being, this isnt an american thing. Or a white thing. Its a human thing. 

No one is suggesting forgetting it happened. But taken in context, its pretty ancient history. And its not in any way unique.

Native american issues aren't quite ancient history. I think that overlooks a lot of the modern problems they face.

Agree with the rest. And I might even extend it to say that most species of life are brutal in some way. So not just a human thing. 

[Cosmo_Kramer]

3 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

And again, youre missing the part about the strongest indian tribes wiped out the weaker ones before the europeans ever arrived.... and they did that by way of the exact same techniques, just with different technologies.

The mexicans and indians fought the exact same brutal wars america did with the natives. 

Had America stayed in its lane, and never expanded past the original colonies, the Mexicans at one point or another would have done the same thing to the native americans..... and the native tribes would have continued trying to expand their own territories. 

Which means it will continue into the future. Happening in China. Ukraine. Armenia. Indonesia. Could go on and on and on. Another reason you could say native american is still a current issue. Just more modern battles

[Don]

3 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

And again, youre missing the part about the strongest indian tribes wiped out the weaker ones before the europeans ever arrived.... and they did that by way of the exact same techniques, just with different technologies.

The mexicans and indians fought the exact same brutal wars america did with the natives. 

Had America stayed in its lane, and never expanded past the original colonies, the Mexicans at one point or another would have done the same thing to the native americans..... and the native tribes would have continued trying to expand their own territories. 

Fun little fact to add... some plains Indian tribes (the Kiowa in particular) considered Americans, Mexicans, and Texans to be three completely distinct ethnic groups. The Texans were not well-liked.

[Dtwncbad]

The main reason I roll my eyes at changing these names is that SJWs are insatiable in the addiction to indignity.

Try to come up with a respectful name that honors them.  They won’t let you.

Whatever you come up with will be deemed disrespectful and racist.

So if they are absolutely going to be offended no matter what, then who cares?

 

[Angelsjunky]

9 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

And again, youre missing the part about the strongest indian tribes wiped out the weaker ones before the europeans ever arrived.... and they did that by way of the exact same techniques, just with different technologies.

The mexicans and indians fought the exact same brutal wars america did with the natives. 

Had America stayed in its lane, and never expanded past the original colonies, the Mexicans at one point or another would have done the same thing to the native americans..... and the native tribes would have continued trying to expand their own territories. 

I'm not missing the part, I just think it is a false equivalency, and you're using it to write off or, worse, justify what American colonists did. "Everyone did it," or "If we hadn't, someone else would have." 

Humans are monsters - and not just whites or Europeans. I didn't say otherwise, so not sure why you're defending them. White Europeans just seem to be particularly historically effective in their conquering and slaughter.

As far as the original topic of the thread, I am merely suggesting that there's nothing wrong with acknowledging the atrocities committed against Native Americans, or changing the names of sports teams that, in light of American history, could be seen as disrespectful or mocking of an ethnic group. It doesn't do anything to solve actual ongoing problems that Native peoples face, but at least it diminishes the mockery a tiny bit.

[Mark PT]

On 12/13/2020 at 5:49 PM, John Taylor said:

I think what really pisses me off is that changing the name of a sports team because a bunch of SJW's find it offensive does nothing to actually help people who live on the Reservation, it would have been more helpful for them to put resources towards helping find a high number of missing Indigenous women, or education, or poverty, but instead we get the "Cleveland Baseball Team" 

Hold a national vote among all native americans and ask if this is offensive. If it is, then change the name. If not, then dont. THese SJWs need to be told that they dont get their way.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

On 12/13/2020 at 5:44 PM, JAHV76 said:

Are the Braves next?

That was my first thought.