Cleveland Indians changing their team name

[Angelsjunky]

2 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Are they really? I fail to see where we are killing them in mass numbers... but hey I must of missed that on CNN. Nope what the early settlers did was exactly what they did it was war it was what happened a long long time ago. They were killing each other and killing us similarly bad things happen in war. It's why it's called war.

Ever been to a reservation? Do you think there's no connection to what happened to the Native Americans and their current state of poverty?

LOL at "similarly bad things." What are you talking about? European settlers came to their land, pushed them back and killed them in millions, then pushed them to the worst, least arable land, deliberately destroyed their culture--outlawing their languages and religious practices. But yeah, let's name some sports teams after them, complete with mocking mascots!

But its just war. Oh yeah, the Irish!

 

[T.G.]

Next up... should the song YMCA be banned at baseball games?

SJW's are standing by for your calls.

[Jeremiah]

1 minute ago, Kevinb said:

They aren't still marginalizing them. They have land and reservations given to them. Tax exempt etc etc. Short of what going back in time and reverting ownership of every country to the first people who ever settled there what do more do you want? Land is confiscated and stolen in times of war, it happens. Still happens to this day in parts of the world. But yes lets focus on the plight of a sport team name. That's the real issue. Where's your cries for the Muslim population getting put in "pseudo concentration camps" by the millions in China? I feel like that should be something you should concern yourself with more than a team name.

Strawman. That's not to topic of this discussion. If you'd like to begin that thread in the Spin forum, by all means. And how do you know that no one cares about that? Clearly you do, so others likely do as well.

Yes, they are still being marginalized. The "land" given to them is often shitty, and devoid of any real industrial opportunities, usually with no connection at all to their historical homelands. They have almost no political access or power, both of which are required to enact real change. Again, the people who did that to them are also profiting off of their cultural symbols. And then have the gall to say it's honoring them.

[T.G.]

For the record, the song YMCA should be banned because it sucks.

[Jeremiah]

6 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

You've got me I am so hurt. Can you please revert your statement I am offended and saddened. I am a tortured soul.

Sorry, I meant texting and driving...

[Angelsjunky]

To summarize the reasons for not changing the team name:

*Because SJWs are annoying and we can't let them win

*Because it doesn't fix real world problems

*Because war happens

*Because my dad was a fan and I remember his hat

*Because tradition

 

Now that I think about it, those are all great reasons to continue to ignore the decades of protesting of Native American groups that feel that team names and mascots represent the eradication and mockery of their culture.

[Dtwncbad]

2 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

To summarize the reasons for not changing the team name:

*Because SJWs are annoying and we can't let them win

*Because it doesn't fix real world problems

*Because war happens

*Because my dad was a fan and I remember his hat

*Because tradition

 

Now that I think about it, those are all great reasons to continue to ignore the decades of protesting of Native American groups that feel that team names and mascots represent the eradication and mockery of their culture.

Bro you are getting spun out.  I said I liked the team name Indians and I wish I still had my grandpa's old hat.  I never said remembering his hat was a REASON to not change a team name.

I don't care if they change the name.  They can do what they want.  But it is perfectly fair to point out how stupid SJWs are in their meaningless "Do something!" habits.  It is perfectly fair to point out that it won't do shit to help Native Americans.  It is perfectly fair to point out that this grand "injustice" of "taking their land" was war like any war, including their own ongoing violent wars among themselves.  It is perfectly fair to say that changing the team name does interrupt (or change) team tradition.

So change the name.  Whatever.  But please don't expect rational people from pointing gout perfectly fair observations.

[Jeremiah]

6 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Yep ok cool. Again shit happens in war. Nope never been to a reservation. Honestly no desire to. I've been to an Indian Casino once for a bachelor party does that count. Got some stuff comped and won $10k pretty great weekend. Thanks

Way to not address anything AJ said in his post. But you are at least honest in your tacit admission that you don't care to know that life on a reservation is really like. Casinos are also a bit of an issue. Native Americans have one of the highest rates of gambling addiction, yet gaming is one of the few industries where Native American entrepreneurs and make a successful business.

https://www.stlpublicradio.org/projects/fixed-odds/for-native-americans-tribal-casinos-help-and-hurt/#:~:text=A portion of the gaming,how many is not clear.

[Angelsjunky]

 

1 minute ago, Dtwncbad said:

Bro you are getting spun out.  I said I liked the team name Indians and I wish I still had my grandpa's old hat.  I never said remembering his hat was a REASON to not change a team name.

I don't care if they change the name.  They can do what they want.  But it is perfectly fair to point out how stupid SJWs are in their meaningless "Do something!" habits.  It is perfectly fair to point out that it won't do shit to help Native Americans.  It is perfectly fair to point out that this grand "injustice" of "taking their land" was war like any war, including their own ongoing violent wars among themselves.  It is perfectly fair to say that changing the team name does interrupt (or change) team tradition.

So change the name.  Whatever.  But please don't expect rational people from pointing gout perfectly fair observations.

Not spinning out, just making fun of some of the silly arguments being made.

As I said, I agree with you about SJWs, but don't think it is a reason not to change the name. 

Disagree rather enormously with the bolded part, especially your quoted parts that seem to diminish any kind of wrong-doing on the parts of the colonizers. "War like any war" is a pretty bad justification, and them fighting amongst themselves in no way justifies what the colonists did.

 

[Angelsjunky]

3 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

How dare you call the land shitty? Is that how they describe it? Absolutely disgusting and so privileged to live where you live that you can call where someone else's house is or place they live shitty. That is an absolutely disgusting thing to say about where someone lives. They can choose to live there or they can choose to live where ever they so choose. They are free to buy a house anywhere they want or rent an apartment where ever they want. The choice is there's they don't have to choose just on the reservation. But the land that was given to them is not disgusting. It's free land. 

Maybe the dumbest post I've ever seen on this site, and that's saying something. Well done.

[T.G.]

1 minute ago, Angelsjunky said:

Maybe the dumbest post I've ever seen on this site, and that's saying something. Well done.

You've never read his other posts?

[Angelsjunky]

1 minute ago, T.G. said:

You've never read his other posts?

I guess they didn't register in my mind. I can only speak for myself, but while I recognize hundreds of forum names, I only have a sense of a couple dozen regulars.

[Jeremiah]

14 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

How dare you call the land shitty? Is that how they describe it? Absolutely disgusting and so privileged to live where you live that you can call where someone else's house is or place they live shitty. That is an absolutely disgusting thing to say about where someone lives. They can choose to live there or they can choose to live where ever they so choose. They are free to buy a house anywhere they want or rent an apartment where ever they want. The choice is there's they don't have to choose just on the reservation. But the land that was given to them is not disgusting. It's free land. 

You're right, of course. Native Americans don't say that at all about life on a reservation. I mean, where am I coming up with this?

http://www.nativepartnership.org/site/PageServer?pagename=naa_res_main

[Jeremiah]

9 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

 

Not spinning out, just making fun of some of the silly arguments being made.

As I said, I agree with you about SJWs, but don't think it is a reason not to change the name. 

Disagree rather enormously with the bolded part, especially your quoted parts that seem to diminish any kind of wrong-doing on the parts of the colonizers. "War like any war" is a pretty bad justification, and them fighting amongst themselves in no way justifies what the colonists did.

 

And what seems to get lost in that stupid-ass argument is the fact that it was the right of the native people of this land to determine their own fate. It was not the right of the Europeans to determine that for them.

[T.G.]

Serious question...

@Jeremiah did you used to be a bull frog?

if so, you were a good friend of mine.

[Jeremiah]

1 minute ago, T.G. said:

Serious question...

@Jeremiah did you used to be a bull frog?

if so, you were a good friend of mine.

Thanks, @T.G.I am always willing to help a friend drink some fine wine.

[T.G.]

1 minute ago, Jeremiah said:

Thanks, @T.G.I am always willing to help a friend drink some fine wine.

This explains why b doesn’t understand a single word you said.

[IEAngelsfan]

50 minutes ago, T.G. said:

Next up... should the song YMCA be banned at baseball games?

SJW's are standing by for your calls.

The guy in leather scares me.

[tdawg87]

28 minutes ago, IEAngelsfan said:

The guy in leather scares me.

He's the top.

[Angelsjunky]

31 minutes ago, IEAngelsfan said:

The guy in leather scares me.

Do you get a slight tingly feeling down below?

I do.

[IEAngelsfan]

1 hour ago, tdawg87 said:

He's the top.

That's good to know...oh wait.

[ukyah]

8 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

The contemporary saying would go something like this:

”Sticks and stones can break my bones but more importantly I must find a way to view as many words as possible to be offensive to me as it proves I care, proves I am enlightened, and allows me to feel superior to others (the irony) as I grandstand and explain to others why they also should be offended.”

do you know a lot of young people like this? i don't. i think they primarily exist online social media and on college campuses. the online social media is meaningless narcissism, the college campuses make me sad.

[ukyah]

3 hours ago, Kevinb said:

How dare you call the land shitty? Is that how they describe it? Absolutely disgusting and so privileged to live where you live that you can call where someone else's house is or place they live shitty. That is an absolutely disgusting thing to say about where someone lives. They can choose to live there or they can choose to live where ever they so choose. They are free to buy a house anywhere they want or rent an apartment where ever they want. The choice is there's they don't have to choose just on the reservation. But the land that was given to them is not disgusting. It's free land. 

i have spent countless hours on a reservation. my daughter is a tribal member. you have no fucking idea what you are talking about. life on the res, pre-casinos, was an abomination. you really need to not have such a loud opinion on something you know nothing about. 

i know indians who could have a house built for them at zero cost on the reservation and do not take that opportunity because living on the res is so negative. things have changed considerably because of casinos, sometimes for the better and sometimes only to exacerbate larger issues.

[eligrba]

4 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

Oh, please. Compare the history and plight of Native Americans in this country to that of the Irish in this country.

 

i know you specified only this country, but the plight of the Irish in Ireland at the hands of the British is very similar to the plight of the Native Americans at the hands of the Americans.  It is what led to an amazing connection between Native Americans and the Irish that most people know nothing about.

https://www.choctawnation.com/:~:text=The Choctaw Nation and the people of Ireland,raise money for the starving poor in Ireland.

https://thehill.com/policy/international/496244-irish-donate-money-to-native-americans-fighting-coronavirus-outbreak-to

 

[eligrba]

4 hours ago, Kevinb said:

Are they really? I fail to see where we are killing them in mass numbers... but hey I must of missed that on CNN. Nope what the early settlers did was exactly what they did it was war it was what happened a long long time ago. They were killing each other and killing us similarly bad things happen in war. It's why it's called war.

Dumbest statement posted this year.