Angels acquire Jose Iglesias from the Orioles for Garrett Stallings and Jean Pinto

[Taylor]

2 hours ago, rafibomb said:

He was traded to the Orioles. He won't.

He will once the Orioles flip him to the Mets or the Indians.

[Bronson]

11 minutes ago, T.G. said:

What makes you think I was being sarcastic?

-_-

[mmc]

I don’t understand why people seem to think his bat has to play for him to be successful here.  We have enough players who can hit.  It’s time to focus on run prevention.

[Angels 1961]

I had a feeling something was going to happen, now let's go get Matt Manning

[Pancake Bear]

Don't love or hate it. If the money makes getting good pitching happen, I'm good with it. If they whiff again, I'll be more annoyed. That said, I wasn't planning on any big names at MIF anyway, and I'm glad they got a SS (and that his name doesn't rhyme with Bibi Drecktorius) so Fletcher can stay at 2B.

[ukyah]

2 hours ago, Second Base said:

 

I like Iglesias, always have. But I'm not entirely convinced Iglesias at SS and Fletcher at 2B is going to be so much better than Fletch at SS and Rengifo or Barreto at 2B. 

 

even if iglesias and rengifo hit the exact same offensive numbers, wouldn't iglesias at SS and fletcher at 2b be substantially defensively better than fletcher at SS and rengifo at 2b?

[Docwaukee]

2 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

Pretty much how I see it. Not sure why you trade for a guy like this when similar players can be had on the open market. Minasian must really like Iglesias, or think some of his offensive spike is sustainable. I highly doubt it is. I vaguely remember him starting one year hitting really well, maybe 2013 or 2015, and then coming back to earth. Players go on hot streaks, and that's all 2020 was. Chances are he's the 85 wRC+, good fielder that he's always been.

This is kinda where I started when I first heard about the trade.  But some other thoughts have been rattling around since.  

First, I think you have to consider 2022, 2023 etc in whatever argument is being made.  

Lindor, Baez, Correa, Seager, Story.  All free agent short stops next year.  If you commit to someone like Wong or even Hernandez, you likely aren't committing to them for 1yr.  It's probably 3.  Which means you are committing to Fletcher at SS for those three years as well.   Some money comes off for 2021 and then again for 2022.  And some pitchers need to be replaced.  This is odd to hear but I would welcome someone to challenge this statement.  Right now and for the next 3+ years, we have more young pitching depth in this org than we do MIF depth.  Outside of Fletch and Rengifo, we really have no one that will be ready in the next two years whereas on the pitching side we've got Canning, Detmers, Sandoval, Suarez, Rodriguez, Yan, Soriano, and maybe a few other that will be worth mentioning in a year.  Oh and Ohtani.  I understand we are comparing two positions to 5 but the math still favors not committing down stream money to a 2bman when it can be used for either more pitching or a potentially better SS next year.  This isn't just a 2021 play.  It's a future play where you don't commit 10 mil a season for the next three years.  

And the options for going cheap in free agency?  Well, for 3.5 mil, you aren't getting Simmons, Gregorius, Semien, LeMahieu, Wong, Villar or Hernandez or La Stella for close to that and they're all in multi-year commitment territory.  So maybe you get Freddy Galvis, Jason Kipnis, Hanser Albert or Jon Schoop.  Maybe but it still likely costs you more for that one year.  

Which leads me to my next thought.  Which is, what if you don't get one of those halfway decent third or fourth tier guys and you are rolling with some scrub like a Logan Forsythe?  

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but one thing that's very important in the off season process which people tend to ignore is timeline.  Minasian now knows what his MIF is gonna look like opening day.  He also knows how much it's gonna cost and how that impacts other moves.  We knew he was gonna have to make this type of move at some point.  Did he potentially leave 0.5 WAR on the table?  Maybe, but at least he can be fairly confident that neither 2b or SS are going to suck next year.  

To me, he just did what one of the things I've been asking for.  Avoid absolute train wreck, grease fire, horrendous disasters.  Now we know we're not going to end up with Greg Garcia or Joe Panik or Chris Owings at 2b.  He got a fairly known quantity instead of someone who we hope can rebound or find old form.  

He dumped a couple pen guys to pay for Iglesias.  What are the odds he can find a couple other pen guys to offset that production for league min vs. trying to do that at SS?  

 

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, ukyah said:

even if iglesias and rengifo hit the exact same offensive numbers, wouldn't iglesias at SS and fletcher at 2b be substantially defensively better than fletcher at SS and rengifo at 2b?

defensively yes.   the biggest problem with Rengifo is that he could easily drop a turd offensively and then what?  

Eppler sucked at mitigating downside risk.  It's truly the one thing that got him fired.  Minasian won't make that same mistake.  

[Warfarin]

2 hours ago, Dochalo said:

defensively yes.   the biggest problem with Rengifo is that he could easily drop a turd offensively and then what?  

Eppler sucked at mitigating downside risk.  It's truly the one thing that got him fired.  Minasian won't make that same mistake.  

This is a key thing.  The best teams in baseball often have layers upon layers of depth - they don't put all their eggs in one basket.

Could Fletcher at SS and Rengifo at 2B possibly contributed the same thing?  Maybe, but it doesn't seem that likely.  And what if one of them got hurt?  Then we'd be rather screwed.

At least now, with Iglesias at SS and Fletcher at 2B, we have a really solid defensive pairing.  If Iglesias gets hurt, Fletcher can slide over to SS, so we have a good contingency plan in place for SS if anything happens to our primary SS.  And this will give Rengifo time to improve his game and develop further, as opposed to be thrusting into a key role.

Iglesias isn't exciting, but what he does do is improve our floor and help us improve defensively at two positions.  For a team like ours, that has often fielded a stars and scrubs approach, we are going to have to continue to try to improve our floor at weak positions (2B, corner OF, SP).  Minasian is going to work on that, and he's off to a pretty decent start.

[angelsnationtalk]

Has Perry Minasian just become the trade king!?!?
JK.... But cool to see him get a temporary fix at SS while saving tons of $ for pitching. 

 

[Warfarin]

44 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Has Perry Minasian just become the trade king!?!?
JK.... But cool to see him get a temporary fix at SS while saving tons of $ for pitching. 

 

I'm very pleased with the deal.  Our middle infield is set now - Iglesias and Fletcher are the starters, while Barreto and Rengifo are the reserves.  If Barreto is healthy, Rengifo goes to AAA.  If Barreto is injured (seems likely he'll be out a bit as he rehabs from shoulder surgery), Rengifo can be the reserve.

With the glut of relievers and corner OFers on the market, I suspect Minasian can continue to cheaply fill those spots without much issue.  He will have to spend (either $$ or prospect capital) to improve SP and C, so likely, that is where we will see our money/prospects spent.

[eligrba]

10 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

I had a feeling something was going to happen, now let's go get Matt Manning

You should propose a trade with a new thread.

[eligrba]

It is fun to reflect on the "could haves" or should haves" but I am reserving my evaluation of the trade until all of Minasian's moves are made.  This is simply the first of many decisions the Angels need to make during the off season.  I don't know anything about any of the players involved in the trade so I remain casually observant.

[Junkballer]

12 hours ago, T.G. said:

Gaylord, Katy, Matthew or Corey?

[Angelsjunky]

8 hours ago, Dochalo said:

This is kinda where I started when I first heard about the trade.  But some other thoughts have been rattling around since.  

First, I think you have to consider 2022, 2023 etc in whatever argument is being made.  

Lindor, Baez, Correa, Seager, Story.  All free agent short stops next year.  If you commit to someone like Wong or even Hernandez, you likely aren't committing to them for 1yr.  It's probably 3.  Which means you are committing to Fletcher at SS for those three years as well.   Some money comes off for 2021 and then again for 2022.  And some pitchers need to be replaced.  This is odd to hear but I would welcome someone to challenge this statement.  Right now and for the next 3+ years, we have more young pitching depth in this org than we do MIF depth.  Outside of Fletch and Rengifo, we really have no one that will be ready in the next two years whereas on the pitching side we've got Canning, Detmers, Sandoval, Suarez, Rodriguez, Yan, Soriano, and maybe a few other that will be worth mentioning in a year.  Oh and Ohtani.  I understand we are comparing two positions to 5 but the math still favors not committing down stream money to a 2bman when it can be used for either more pitching or a potentially better SS next year.  This isn't just a 2021 play.  It's a future play where you don't commit 10 mil a season for the next three years.  

And the options for going cheap in free agency?  Well, for 3.5 mil, you aren't getting Simmons, Gregorius, Semien, LeMahieu, Wong, Villar or Hernandez or La Stella for close to that and they're all in multi-year commitment territory.  So maybe you get Freddy Galvis, Jason Kipnis, Hanser Albert or Jon Schoop.  Maybe but it still likely costs you more for that one year.  

Which leads me to my next thought.  Which is, what if you don't get one of those halfway decent third or fourth tier guys and you are rolling with some scrub like a Logan Forsythe?  

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but one thing that's very important in the off season process which people tend to ignore is timeline.  Minasian now knows what his MIF is gonna look like opening day.  He also knows how much it's gonna cost and how that impacts other moves.  We knew he was gonna have to make this type of move at some point.  Did he potentially leave 0.5 WAR on the table?  Maybe, but at least he can be fairly confident that neither 2b or SS are going to suck next year.  

To me, he just did what one of the things I've been asking for.  Avoid absolute train wreck, grease fire, horrendous disasters.  Now we know we're not going to end up with Greg Garcia or Joe Panik or Chris Owings at 2b.  He got a fairly known quantity instead of someone who we hope can rebound or find old form.  

He dumped a couple pen guys to pay for Iglesias.  What are the odds he can find a couple other pen guys to offset that production for league min vs. trying to do that at SS?  

 

OK, you make a good argument. With Pujols coming off the books, the idea of going after a Lindor or Correa seems more possible. And it isn't like there is a SS prospect on deck; I'm not confident that Jackson will stick at SS, and even if he does, is likely 2-3 years away. Vera and Paris are intriguing, but are 3-5 years away.

It is December 3, and the infield is basically set, so that allows him to focus on more pressing needs. Given what we know about Minasian, he might go hard after James McCann, and it seems like he's going to completely rebuild the bullpen. And of course there's a starting pitcher or two.

 

Edited December 3, 2020 by Angelsjunky

[BTH]

On the position player side, if the Angels are going to be good next season it will be because Upton and Ohtani produced. They need the players that can be middle of the order bats to be middle of the order bats.

They have two elite hitters in Trout and Rendon. They can afford to give up offense at a position or two in exchange for quality defense.

Iglesias fills a need and comes at a low cost, both in prospects and salary.

[T.G.]

4 minutes ago, Trendon said:

They need the players that can be middle of the order bats to be middle of the older bats.

Pujols it is!

[Chuck]

 

[Angelsjunky]

1 hour ago, Trendon said:

On the position player side, if the Angels are going to be good next season it will be because Upton and Ohtani produced. They need the players that can be middle of the order bats to be middle of the order bats.

They have two elite hitters in Trout and Rendon. They can afford to give up offense at a position or two in exchange for quality defense.

Iglesias fills a need and comes at a low cost, both in prospects and salary.

Or another way to put it, as of right now the projected lineup is something like this, via wRC+:

2B Fletcher 120

CF Trout 170

3B Rendon 150

LF Upton 120

1B Walsh 130

DH Ohtani 130

C Stassi 110

RF Ward 100

SS Iglesias 90

(This isn't including possible upgrades at RF and C)

Not a bad lineup, but as you say it hinges on questionable guys like Upton, Ohtani, and Walsh. 

[eligrba]

1 hour ago, Chuckster70 said:

 

Wow.....

[tdawg87]

Defense falls under the umbrella of Pitching, I think. It's all "run prevention" but defense is seriously overlooked. 

This is why I think Minasian will bring in a RF via FA or trade. Why have an elite infield defense if you're going to have shitty corner outfielders? 

As an aside, the Angels Facebook page really shows how idiotic the casual fanbase is. They are all complaining because we didn't get a pitcher. Truly an amazing thing, social media.

[Angel Oracle]

2 hours ago, eligrba said:

You should propose a trade with a new thread.

Bananas prevent hamstring pulls.

[Chuck]

 

[Bronson]

31 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Defense falls under the umbrella of Pitching, I think. It's all "run prevention" but defense is seriously overlooked. 

This is why I think Minasian will bring in a RF via FA or trade. Why have an elite infield defense if you're going to have shitty corner outfielders? 

As an aside, the Angels Facebook page really shows how idiotic the casual fanbase is. They are all complaining because we didn't get a pitcher. Truly an amazing thing, social media.

Oh yeah I read some of those comments and just shake my head. But to be fair the casual fan base of any team is stupid. They only go by what they hear on ESPN or MLB Network. The narrative is the Angels just need to go after pitching, so if they see us go after anyone other then a pitcher they just flip. 

[kevinb]

51 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Defense falls under the umbrella of Pitching, I think. It's all "run prevention" but defense is seriously overlooked. 

This is why I think Minasian will bring in a RF via FA or trade. Why have an elite infield defense if you're going to have shitty corner outfielders? 

As an aside, the Angels Facebook page really shows how idiotic the casual fanbase is. They are all complaining because we didn't get a pitcher. Truly an amazing thing, social media.

At what point do we think about moving Trout to one of the corner outfield positions and replacing him at CF? Could Trout play Left or Right better than he plays Center?