Players and Owners far apart

[Angels 1961]

Reports from CBS Sports players and owners are far apart on the money. If the season is canceled baseball will suffer for many years. With virus all sports are going to suffer for some time.

[ten ocho recon scout]

This is a tough one.

Its easy to tell the players "dont be greedy". But, in their defense, they know the owners are making a ton.

That said, the owners too are losing shit tons here.

Youd hope both sides would shoot for break even versus make profit, and just play to entertain people right now.

[Claude]

36 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

This is a tough one.

Its easy to tell the players "dont be greedy". But, in their defense, they know the owners are making a ton.

That said, the owners too are losing shit tons here.

Youd hope both sides would shoot for break even versus make profit, and just play to entertain people right now.

The NHL must be doing something right. 

[kevinb]

Are u kidding me. Players will never agree to this. Owners are playing the fans and players like a fiddle. Players are looking like the bad guys while the owners will pocket a boat load of cash. If the players have to agree to this then the owners should agree to they can’t make more than X amount of dollars during the year. Neither of this will happen. Good luck MLB

[Claude]

How much more do you possibly need?

Jered Weaver

[m0nkey]

36 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Are u kidding me. Players will never agree to this. Owners are playing the fans and players like a fiddle. Players are looking like the bad guys while the owners will pocket a boat load of cash. If the players have to agree to this then the owners should agree to they can’t make more than X amount of dollars during the year. Neither of this will happen. Good luck MLB

Better way to look at it.  The $35, $10, and $2.9 Mil is assuming a full 162.

 

 

[Vlad27Trout27]

well f you money hungry Bastrads.

[Angel Oracle]

2 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

This is a tough one.

Its easy to tell the players "dont be greedy". But, in their defense, they know the owners are making a ton.

That said, the owners too are losing shit tons here.

Youd hope both sides would shoot for break even versus make profit, and just play to entertain people right now.

Didn't the owners go back on an original agreement?    Both sides need to compromise, but the owners more so.

No baseball in 2020 = a worse result than the 1994 WS less strike.

[Justin]

It would be idiotic if they can't make this work.

Which is why I have no doubt they can't make this work. 

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, Kevinb said:

Are u kidding me. Players will never agree to this. Owners are playing the fans and players like a fiddle. Players are looking like the bad guys while the owners will pocket a boat load of cash. If the players have to agree to this then the owners should agree to they can’t make more than X amount of dollars during the year. Neither of this will happen. Good luck MLB

Yep, I would walk away from this if I was a player.  This isn’t just about this year, it is about future negotiations as well.  

Here is where I think it will land.  I think the players will get the full prorated salary for half the season, however I think you are going to see 25-40% of that deferred.  

[kevinb]

1 hour ago, m0nkey said:

Better way to look at it.  The $35, $10, and $2.9 Mil is assuming a full 162.

 

 

Ya they are very far apart. Unless the owners cap their earnings for the year as well. Fans will be allowed into stadiums by the end of the season if not before. There is zero reasons players should taking this huge of a hit. MLB is making the players look terrible. Players need to start using the media to their advantage and stop getting played by the owners. 

[kevinb]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yep, I would walk away from this if I was a player.  This isn’t just about this year, it is about future negotiations as well.  

Here is where I think it will land.  I think the players will get the full prorated salary for half the season, however I think you are going to see 25-40% of that deferred.  

I don’t know if this has been said but what if they do a pro rated deal minus whatever so say you’re contract is 25 mil a year and the player takes 13 this year. But then takes the other 12 over the course of the next how ever many years his contract is. So he still gets all the money that’s agreed upon it’s just spread over the next couple years? Similar to what we’re having to do with rent. We can give people “free” rent for 3 months etc but over the course of 6-12 months they have to pay back those “free” months of rent over a specified amount of time. 

[kevinb]

14 minutes ago, SoPas Angel said:

It would be idiotic if they can't make this work.

Which is why I have no doubt they can't make this work. 

I agree. I think and have said before. Of all the sports the one I worry about the most not playing is baseball. Hockey is ready. Basketball and their league will do something smart. They’re a very innovative league. And the nfl is just stodgy enough to not give a rats ass. MLB has this still old guy versus young guy feel and they fight change every step of the way. 

[gotbeer]

2 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

This is a tough one.

Its easy to tell the players "dont be greedy". But, in their defense, they know the owners are making a ton.

That said, the owners too are losing shit tons here.

Youd hope both sides would shoot for break even versus make profit, and just play to entertain people right now.

I think part of the problem is this.  The Skanks, Angels, Dogs, etc could still make a ton for RSN's.  Then you have the Marlins, Brewers, Rockies.  And the discrepency is huge.  Top is Dogs $239 million, with the bottom being the Marlins at $20 million.  And only 6 teams make more than $100 million in RSN.  

So splitting it, isn't as easy as it sounds.  Should the Skanks pay for the Marlins breaking even?  Should all teams put their RSN money in the kitty, and split it evenly?  What about pay discrepencies.  I'm sure the Yanks pay a premium for their employees, where as the Marlins probably don't pay as much.  Hypothetically, if it all evenly splits to $75 million, will the Marlins use that extra $55 million or just pocket whatever they can as profit.  

[gotbeer]

2 hours ago, RendZone said:

The NHL must be doing something right. 

NHL and the players union have been working together very closely to get an amicable solution.  It probably also helps that the owners haven't screwed the players over in the past like MLB has done.  And it also seems like owners are much more likely in the NHL to treat players like family than employees.  The other benefit is the players know the owners aren't wheelbarreling money like in the NFL and MLB and even NBA.  

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-2020-season-negotiations-leagues-new-economic-proposal-leaves-union-disappointed-reports-say/

"Twelve players were scheduled to earn at least $30 million in 2020. The vast majority of MLB players are making $1 million or less, however. The Yankees, for example, have the highest projected full season payroll in the sport at $260 million, but even they had 10 players slated to make six figures on their projected 26-man roster."

The current proposal seems to pit the very highly compensated against the rest.  In a day and age when there's talk about how higher earners need to pay more in this case they'd be giving a bigger concession for the shortened season.  I don't blame the players if something doesn't get worked out but if MLB ends up being the only major US sport to not finish out a 2020 season that's not going to sit well with some fans or look good for the league.  NHL/NBA have the advantage of the lock downs going into effect when they had played about 80% of their regular season so they can just finish out the playoffs.  NFL won't start for another 3+ months so time is on their side while they work out the kinks.   

[gotbeer]

30 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

I agree. I think and have said before. Of all the sports the one I worry about the most not playing is baseball. Hockey is ready. Basketball and their league will do something smart. They’re a very innovative league. And the nfl is just stodgy enough to not give a rats ass. MLB has this still old guy versus young guy feel and they fight change every step of the way. 

Here is the thing between MLB and Hockey and Baseball.  We'll put the NFL out of this because it's not comparable.  

I can at least speak for the NHL, since I follow them more closely.  Both the NBA and NHL completed 80% of the season.  At last on the NHL side, players are paid based on the season.  The playoffs are a bonus, and the players that play get a % of the national tv revenue.  So for a team at the cap, which most teams are at.  20% of $81 million is $16 million.  That's still a lot, but it's not overly high where it can be negotiated, and worse case, if owners have to eat that amount that it would cause extreme hardship.  

Baseball, we are talking 50% cut right away, and possibly no attendance income.  As far as the proposed salary structure.  

1 hour ago, m0nkey said:

Better way to look at it.  The $35, $10, and $2.9 Mil is assuming a full 162.

 

 

But consider this.  If you play 50% of the games, and you go straight line 50% of the salary, it would look like this.

$285K $262K  $142k
$506K $434K $253k
$1.01M $736K $505k
$2.53M $1.64M $1.26M
$5.06M $2.95M $2.53M
$7.59M $4.05M $3.79M
$10.1M $5.15M $5.05M
 

$12.7M $6.05M $6.35M
$15.2M $6.95M $7.6M
$17.7M $7.84M $8.8M

So in essence, only those making more than $10.1 million a season is seeing their pay reduced.  That number of players that would get a reduction would be around 126.  The number of players is at least 25 players per team by 30 or 750.  So for 16.8% of the players in the proposal is getting a cut, the other 82.2% will get paid more than if it's an even split.

[Claude]

2 hours ago, gotbeer said:

NHL and the players union have been working together very closely to get an amicable solution.  It probably also helps that the owners haven't screwed the players over in the past like MLB has done.  And it also seems like owners are much more likely in the NHL to treat players like family than employees.  The other benefit is the players know the owners aren't wheelbarreling money like in the NFL and MLB and even NBA.  

MLB is already dealing with the recent fentanyl death, sign stealing scandal, juiced baseballs, the sticky baseball guy and now this. MLB continues to embarrass itself. MLB needs to pull the plug on 2020, regroup, realign divisions, commence early GM / owners meetings and come back fresh next season and be ready for spring. 

Edited May 27, 2020 by RendZone

[Lou]

1 hour ago, gotbeer said:

NHL and the players union have been working together very closely to get an amicable solution.  It probably also helps that the owners haven't screwed the players over in the past like MLB has done.  And it also seems like owners are much more likely in the NHL to treat players like family than employees.  The other benefit is the players know the owners aren't wheelbarreling money like in the NFL and MLB and even NBA.  

lol

The NHL locked their family members out less than 8 years ago

[beatlesrule]

What's the holdup here? If they only play 82 games, it's essentially half of the games they would normally play so why wouldn't their salary be half? If a guy is supposed to make 10 million this year, he would instead get 5 million. What is wrong about that? What is unfair about that?

[Lou]

3 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

What's the holdup here? If they only play 82 games, it's essentially half of the games they would normally play so why wouldn't their salary be half? If a guy is supposed to make 10 million this year, he would instead get 5 million. What is wrong about that? What is unfair about that?

Revenue for the owners won't be half.

[beatlesrule]

16 minutes ago, Lou said:

Revenue for the owners won't be half.

Owners don't have guaranteed revenue even with a normal 162 game season. I'm failing to see how any of this is a problem. Would this new proposal not include fans attending the games or limiting the fans that can attend? If so then yes, I can see how that will become a problem. Is there any real math that has been done to see what it would cost owners that employ all the people that work at the stadium during a game?  Let's just type, for example, it costs an owner 1 million dollars for every game played at their stadium during a NORMAL season to pay employees and all that stuff. Let's type that said owner, on average, gets 2 million per game so they make a 1 million profit. This is not a normal season so if there are less fans or no fan in attendance, it would mean owners would not have the cost of 1 million per game. Owners would still get money from their TV deal so now they would have to figure out how much they are making or losing per game. If they will only play baseball in certain stadiums, then yeah, I could see how players getting half while owners have to share all the profits of whatever stadium the game is played in could cause problems. I hate sticking up for billionaires but I could see their point here.

Then again, if the Angels payroll would have been 160 million this year, it would project to 80 million now so Arte saves 80 million no? Could certain owners actually save more money and profit more from 82 games over 162 simply with money normally spent now saved?

[Stradling]

The proposal is with no fans. Also if no games are played Arte doesn’t save $80-160 million, he loses his ass in lost revenue.  Lastly you’d have to assume all revenue from TV would also be cut in half.   

[mmc]

 

[Inside Pitch]

3 hours ago, gotbeer said:

NHL and the players union have been working together very closely to get an amicable solution.  It probably also helps that the owners haven't screwed the players over in the past like MLB has done.  

It also helps that NHL players already got their full pay for a solid 75% of their season....