Players and Owners far apart

[yk9001]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Trout might befine, but what about Kenley Jansen, or the pitcher from the Indians who had cancer?  

If they are immunocompromised, and they feel they are at risk, they shouldn't be out there.

Is this really that hard?

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, yk9001 said:

If they are immunocompromised, and they feel they are at risk, they shouldn't be out there.

Is this really that hard?

I agree.   At the same time I have no idea, nor I’m I inclined to look up if they’ve walked back from the dangers or the unknowns of pregnant women being infected with it.   So if Trout gets it, if they haven’t walked back from pregnant women and babies being in the high risk category, there’s merit to whether or not Trout should be playing.  

[kevinb]

7 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I agree.   At the same time I have no idea, nor I’m I inclined to look up if they’ve walked back from the dangers or the unknowns of pregnant women being infected with it.   So if Trout gets it, if they haven’t walked back from pregnant women and babies being in the high risk category, there’s merit to whether or not Trout should be playing.  

What happens if one player gets it. Do they have to quarantine both teams from playing for 14 days?

[Tank]

18 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Other people losing jobs has zero bearing on what baseball players should do it isn’t apples to apples. I don’t know why people keep bringing it up.

because it makes them look greedy. 

how do you expect a guy with a family who lost his job to root for a player who held out because his salary was going to get cut from 9 mil to 4 mil, and the player wouldn't tolerate that? why would this fan have any reason to attend another game, or buy his kids a t-shirt, or do anything else to support the team? 

[Stradling]

13 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

What happens if one player gets it. Do they have to quarantine both teams from playing for 14 days?

I only know how I’m handling it at work, which does mean exclusion for a period of time.  

[yk9001]

25 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I agree.   At the same time I have no idea, nor I’m I inclined to look up if they’ve walked back from the dangers or the unknowns of pregnant women being infected with it.   So if Trout gets it, if they haven’t walked back from pregnant women and babies being in the high risk category, there’s merit to whether or not Trout should be playing.  

So is the question "Is it safe?" or is the question "Should he play at $8 million, or $30 million, or somewhere in between?"

[yk9001]

18 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

What happens if one player gets it. Do they have to quarantine both teams from playing for 14 days?

I think that each league is handling it differently.  I read this morning that the TBL, that basketball league that has a winner take all tournament every summer, said if a player tests positive, the team gets thrown out.

I heard on a basketball podcast that if an NBA player tests positive, they aren't going to shut the league down again, like with Rudy Gobert.

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, yk9001 said:

So is the question "Is it safe?" or is the question "Should he play at $8 million, or $30 million, or somewhere in between?"

 

49 minutes ago, yk9001 said:

oh for fuck's sake.  Walmart clerks have been working on the covid front lines for the last three months.  JFC, I think Trout, with access to daily testing and the best medical care in the world, will be fine.

You tell me. What was your point?

[ukyah]

1 hour ago, yk9001 said:

I quit giving a shit in millionaire vs. billionaire struggles about 2 decades ago.  There isn't a machine invented that can measure how little shit I give whether Trout makes $30 million this year, or $8 million.

NHL - working on specifics to get playoffs going

NBA - working on specifics to get playoffs going

NFL - held a seamless draft, and working on specifics to get the regular season going

MLB - player's union unhappy about the owner's proposal 

 

MLB is going to be as relevant as MLS the way they are going

to be fair, i haven't read one article about the other leagues trying to fuck over the players. also, the nba and nhl had already played almost their entire regular seasons when the lockdown started, that's an important distinction.

[yk9001]

1 minute ago, ukyah said:

to be fair, i haven't read one article about the other leagues trying to fuck over the players. also, the nba and nhl had already played almost their entire regular seasons when the lockdown started, that's an important distinction.

If these guys (owners and players) f this up, they are even dumber than I thought

[Chuck]

 

[kevinb]

42 minutes ago, Tank said:

because it makes them look greedy. 

how do you expect a guy with a family who lost his job to root for a player who held out because his salary was going to get cut from 9 mil to 4 mil, and the player wouldn't tolerate that? why would this fan have any reason to attend another game, or buy his kids a t-shirt, or do anything else to support the team? 

Again that doesn't matter. Other peoples jobs don't matter in the argument. Just because my next door neighbor lost his job that means I should take a 70 percent pay cut? Why? That sucks that people are losing jobs and I feel for them and their families, but baseball players or any other job shouldn't take into effect someone else losing their job. We range from 3 to 10% unemployment rates right now it's a bit higher for a time being, but jobs are going to come back once the government lock down stops. So These athletes should take a 70% pay cut because people are going to be out of jobs for a month or two or three or four? I just don't get it. 

[yk9001]

8 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

 

MLB is so funny.  

Guys arms are practically falling off.  TJ surgeries, ulnar nerves - practically every arm on the Angels staff the last couple years have been hurt.

But MLB is seeking to decrease injury from the pitchers hitting..... okay.

[Chuck]

6 minutes ago, yk9001 said:

MLB is so funny.  

Guys arms are practically falling off.  TJ surgeries, ulnar nerves - practically every arm on the Angels staff the last couple years have been hurt.

But MLB is seeking to decrease injury from the pitchers hitting..... okay.

I agree. 

[Chuck]

I agree! Most of the rookies, prospects on the brink of the majors and minor leaguers just want to play. The high priced players and wealthy owners need to get with it and come to an agreement. America needs its greatest pastime back for more than just our entertainment!

 

 

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

19 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Again that doesn't matter. Other peoples jobs don't matter in the argument. Just because my next door neighbor lost his job that means I should take a 70 percent pay cut? Why? That sucks that people are losing jobs and I feel for them and their families, but baseball players or any other job shouldn't take into effect someone else losing their job. We range from 3 to 10% unemployment rates right now it's a bit higher for a time being, but jobs are going to come back once the government lock down stops. So These athletes should take a 70% pay cut because people are going to be out of jobs for a month or two or three or four? I just don't get it. 

Except we're talking about a spectator sport where revenues are driven by ticket sales, cable TV deals, merchandise sales and so on which the fans pay for.  If a company I support does something I don't care for then I can simply not support them and that's how some fans will respond to any professional sport where they're viewed as greedy whether it's the fault of the owners, players or both.  The unemployment rate in the US is expected to hit 19.5% when the Bureau of Labor Statistics releases the May jobs report not sure where you're getting 3-10% when it was 14.5% as of April.  Some people will be out of a job longer because our new normal is going to result in some businesses not coming back while others will reduce hours or staff because they can't service as many clients due to the guidelines.  Agree with it or not billionaires and millionaires squabbling over sums of money that would have many people be set for years if not a lifetime is going to fall on a lot of deaf ears.  A missed season definitely isn't going to create more fans rather it will push some long time fans away and a lot of casual fans.      

[kevinb]

1 minute ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

Except we're talking about a spectator sport where revenues are driven by ticket sales, cable TV deals, merchandise sales and so on which the fans pay for.  If a company I support does something I don't care for then I can simply not support them and that's how some fans will respond to any professional sport where they're viewed as greedy whether it's the fault of the owners, players or both.  The unemployment rate in the US is expected to hit 19.5% when the Bureau of Labor Statistics releases the May jobs report not sure where you're getting 3-10% when it was 14.5% as of April.  Some people will be out of a job longer because our new normal is going to result in some businesses not coming back while others will reduce hours or staff because of reduced seating.  Agree with it or not billionaires and millionaires squabbling over sums of money that would have many people be set for years if not a lifetime is going to fall on a lot of deaf ears.       

I said we usually lie somewhere between 3 and 10% right now we are more than that. But I still don't see your point. Are you mad if people make money are you mad that people make a lot of money? It is called big business. Do you choose not to buy a phone because the people who make the phones make them in sweat shops for cents while the people in charge are making hundreds upon hundreds of millions of dollars? If you don't want to watch baseball don't watch baseball. But a lot of people in the world make a lot of money and are making a lot of money today. If you bought in at the low in the stock market when it dropped which I hope you did you'd be making a lot of money today. Professional sports have an agreed upon contracts with their players, it works that way in a lot of other industries as well and they have a very strong union. Like it or not that is what it is. It is entertainment, it is sports, but it is also their profession of choice and they have a lot of the power. Life happens, I wouldn't begrudge the players fighting for each penny they are owed if it comes down to it. Because I feel like the owners will do the same thing. It is what it is, it's big business played out in a very public venue. 

[gotbeer]

2 hours ago, Mark PT said:

What is really dumb is that every sports fan has been dying for anything for 2 months. This is a great opportunity for baseball to step in fill that demand and may blow this.

Horse racing handles have been through the roof.  

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

What employees of private companies make is their business but as a fan or customer if I don't like what plays out in public or the way someone does business then yes I will respond with my wallet.  "Made in China" is likely to take a hit with everything that's gone on and when at possible I have and will continue to avoid buying products made in China.  They had an agreed upon contract but the current situation has changed the world we live in and how 2020 operates given that they need to come to a new agreement to have a season.  The agreement didn't cover a situation like this that's why they're at the bargaining table.  The reality is that if they play this year it's mostly if not completely without fans in attendance at least in the short term so that changes a major revenue driver.  I'm sure the owners aren't trying to strike a deal where they expect to lose money but they want the MLBPA to share in some of that loss and what the players were owed this year went out the window.  As I said before in this thread I don't fault the players if they don't come to an agreement but to Tank's point plenty of fans both long time and casual are not going to relate to or care about billionaires and millionaires fighting.  In 1994 before the strike MLB saw a then record average attendance which they didn't approach for another decade until after the strike. If they don't have a season it's definitely not a good thing for MLB or their fan base.

[yk9001]

10 minutes ago, gotbeer said:

Horse racing handles have been through the roof.  

I opened up a TVG account a week and a half ago.  It has been a surprisingly good sports/gambling substitute.

[Rico]

16 hours ago, gotbeer said:

 

But consider this.  If you play 50% of the games, and you go straight line 50% of the salary, it would look like this.

$285K $262K  $142k
$506K $434K $253k
$1.01M $736K $505k
$2.53M $1.64M $1.26M
$5.06M $2.95M $2.53M
$7.59M $4.05M $3.79M
$10.1M $5.15M $5.05M
 

$12.7M $6.05M $6.35M
$15.2M $6.95M $7.6M
$17.7M $7.84M $8.8M

So in essence, only those making more than $10.1 million a season is seeing their pay reduced.  That number of players that would get a reduction would be around 126.  The number of players is at least 25 players per team by 30 or 750.  So for 16.8% of the players in the proposal is getting a cut, the other 82.2% will get paid more than if it's an even split.

Ummm... what?  The numbers on the left are already cut by 50% of the original salaries.  

[kevinb]

33 minutes ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

What employees of private companies make is their business but as a fan or customer if I don't like what plays out in public or the way someone does business then yes I will respond with my wallet.  "Made in China" is likely to take a hit with everything that's gone on and when at possible I have and will continue to avoid buying products made in China.  They had an agreed upon contract but the current situation has changed the world we live in and how 2020 operates given that they need to come to a new agreement to have a season.  The agreement didn't cover a situation like this that's why they're at the bargaining table.  The reality is that if they play this year it's mostly if not completely without fans in attendance at least in the short term so that changes a major revenue driver.  I'm sure the owners aren't trying to strike a deal where they expect to lose money but they want the MLBPA to share in some of that loss and what the players were owed this year went out the window.  As I said before in this thread I don't fault the players if they don't come to an agreement but to Tank's point plenty of fans both long time and casual are not going to relate to or care about billionaires and millionaires fighting.  In 1994 before the strike MLB saw a then record average attendance which they didn't approach for another decade until after the strike. If they don't have a season it's definitely not a good thing for MLB or their fan base.

I agree I think if they don't play this season it will hurt them come following seasons, to what degree I have no idea, like you said this thing that's going on no one was prepared for a situation like this. I agree that arguing over millions of dollars between billionaires and millionaires is not going to win them any favors in the public. What I don't agree with is that because someone else lost money or lost a job that the players should eat the brunt of it because the fans want to watch them. I think there needs to be some sort of compromise. But as of what I saw yesterday which was players taking a 60 to 70 percent pay cut I don't think is fair for the players. I want sports back as soon as possible and hopefully they can come to some sort of agreement, I do find it plausible that baseball out of all the sports is the least likely to be played this year because of how the owners and players have been historically. But who knows hopefully I am wrong. 

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, ukyah said:

to be fair, i haven't read one article about the other leagues trying to fuck over the players. also, the nba and nhl had already played almost their entire regular seasons when the lockdown started, that's an important distinction.

Thats it in a nutshell -- those guys got paid, and now they are looking for playoff money -- both sides stand to win.   MLB can't even guarantee there will be a postseason.  Meanwhile the NFL can talk all it wants, it's months away from having to make any real hard decisions or deal with local governments making demands regarding social distancing.    Are the CA and NY based teams going to play two hand touch or flag football?  Because right now you have people throwing hissy fits when people just go out in public much less tackle each other.

Baseball's season was set to begin just as the shit hit the fan -- doesn't mean Manfred or the MLBPA has handled it well but comparing their situation to leagues heading towards the post-season and one that just ended their season is an apples and oranges type thing.

[Duren, Duren]

Speaking of medical risks, you can go into the minutiae of the actual game to see some players and umps have different risks of contagion. Based on a strict interpretation of the protocol and guidelines that the general public endure?

Will baserunners have to social distance from fielders? Especially at first base? No more chit chat between pitches.

What about catcher/pitcher meetings on the mound? Will they have to be six feet apart?

Will players have to wear masks in the dugout and social distance? In the field and basepaths? Will the bullpen groups have to space out as well? 

What about the ump/catcher/batter triangle? All within a few feet of each other.

It would seem the catchers have the greatest risks, always within a few feet of two others. Pitchers the least. Outfielders not much risk. The first baseman more risk than the other infielders. 

One could go further, but this gives you an idea of how literal adherence to the guidelines gets so problematic. 

Besides the arguments about how to divide the money, there are other issues to deal with. The NHL for instance has a very thorough plan about everything from travel to how many players can practice at the same time. 

There is much more to do besides dividing money.

 

[DMVol]

14 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

...Meanwhile the NFL can talk all it wants, it's months away from having to make any real hard decisions or deal with local governments making demands regarding social distancing.    Are the CA and NY based teams going to play two hand touch or flag football?  Because right now you have people throwing hissy fits when people just go out in public much less tackle each other.

MLB has a tighter timeline for sure but the NFL and CFB have to pull the trigger pretty soon if they’re going to get preseason camps started....CFB has potentially more issues—-opening up campuses, etc....