Players and Owners far apart

[ten ocho recon scout]

24 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

It also helps that NHL players already got their full pay for a solid 75% of their season....

Plus most of them are canadian, so when you short them on money you can just tell them its because of the exchange rate, and theyll fall for it.

[ten ocho recon scout]

I dont know all the specifics here. And perhaps the owners are being greedy.

That being said, Im not going to rush and point the finger at them. We know they make a killing, but thats also with everything going as planned. I have no idea how much money theyve already lost on the year, and how much more they stand to lose.

Im not defending them. And im not suggesting they arent in the wrong. But this is one of those "theyre rich, they have no problems" arguments I think. 

If theyre going to be playing without fans, its not just a loss of ticket sales, but also parking. And concessions. Etc. 

If say we pay our guys half their money for half the year, and the money is coming from the tv deal only, because nothing else is being purchased.... my rough im an idiot math says we're still short 40 million or so? And thats just player payrolls. Not coaches, front office etc. 

 

But again, I have no idea the specifics. 

[kevinb]

There’s zero way the players should accept two thirds or more of their salary being cut. There is too many ripple affects that could come from this down the road.  
 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

6 hours ago, Kevinb said:

Are u kidding me. Players will never agree to this. Owners are playing the fans and players like a fiddle. Players are looking like the bad guys while the owners will pocket a boat load of cash. If the players have to agree to this then the owners should agree to they can’t make more than X amount of dollars during the year. Neither of this will happen. Good luck MLB

That's a ton more than they'll make if the season is cancelled. The veterans can afford to sit it out, but the pre-arbitration players are going to get squeezed.

[ten ocho recon scout]

20 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

There’s zero way the players should accept two thirds or more of their salary being cut. There is too many ripple affects that could come from this down the road.  
 

I dont disagree. But if my boss runs out of money, i too cant expect to get my same paycheck.

Plenty of other people are out of work right now, too, because of the economy.

Again, im not siding with the owners. But i also dont think this is a scheme, or collusion.

A ton of my friends in the bar industry have lost their jobs over the past two months. Even with the bars opening back up, theyre all getting like one shift a week, because the bars can only let in like 25 percent of capacity now.

But the rent for the property, electricity for the freezers, etc etc was still being paid for two months with zero income coming back in. And going forward, the income will be halved at least until the capacity is back up.

Its just not as simple as saying they need to pay because in the past they made a bunch of money.

[Claude]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

The proposal is with no fans. Also if no games are played Arte doesn’t save $80-160 million, he loses his ass in lost revenue.  Lastly you’d have to assume all revenue from TV would also be cut in half.   

 

[kevinb]

54 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

I dont disagree. But if my boss runs out of money, i too cant expect to get my same paycheck.

Plenty of other people are out of work right now, too, because of the economy.

Again, im not siding with the owners. But i also dont think this is a scheme, or collusion.

A ton of my friends in the bar industry have lost their jobs over the past two months. Even with the bars opening back up, theyre all getting like one shift a week, because the bars can only let in like 25 percent of capacity now.

But the rent for the property, electricity for the freezers, etc etc was still being paid for two months with zero income coming back in. And going forward, the income will be halved at least until the capacity is back up.

Its just not as simple as saying they need to pay because in the past they made a bunch of money.

Problem is the bosses aren’t running out of money. Arte turned a 150 million dollar clout chase into a 2 billion dollar franchise. If the season doesn’t play out then no one should get paid. But asking for a 3/4 pay cut when we have absolutely zero clue what will happen in a month about fans and tv revenue etc. 

Disneyland will be open in July. Restaurants are opening now. I was in the boat that nothing will happen this year and I’ve switched. If you’re gonna cut the players salaries cut it fairly for everyone. This just screams greed by the owners. I don’t like it at all. It’s all business I get it. But the players are taking all the risk. Honestly if their are no fans in the stadiums what are the owners even going to pay for? The team salary? They are all gonna share electric costs they won’t have to pay for employees around the stadium or for food etc. other than players and management salaries which they’d have to pay for anyway they’re cutting their costs by what half if not more. While taking in massive tv contracts. Viewership should be through the roof as well especially if no fans can be at the games. It’s a win for the owners. 

[kevinb]

That wasn’t even supposed to be a rant about rich guys being bad either. I just think that the media is playing the players like money grubbers which they are but so are the owners. At the end of the day I hope something gets done but I don’t think the players should accept a fourth of their salary. It should be a true prorated salary. They also should do what these theme parks and living spaces etc are doing. Open up the games for people. U can do screening at the gate for temperatures and whatever else. It’s time. The world is ready. 

[beatlesrule]

So then what solution works for both parties involved?

[kevinb]

5 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

So then what solution works for both parties involved?

I’d say prorated for how ever many games they want to play. Either that or u take off more from this year but u guarantee it over the course of the contract. So if they’re prorated to 15 but also take 5 additional million. I add that 5 million to the 3 years he has on his contract or whatever. I think that’s fair for all parties. What say you?

[ukyah]

if i was a player i would not negotiate down from the contract we just negotiated a month ago. it's a hill i'd die on.

[Stradling]

6 hours ago, Kevinb said:

Problem is the bosses aren’t running out of money. Arte turned a 150 million dollar clout chase into a 2 billion dollar franchise. If the season doesn’t play out then no one should get paid. But asking for a 3/4 pay cut when we have absolutely zero clue what will happen in a month about fans and tv revenue etc. 

Disneyland will be open in July. Restaurants are opening now. I was in the boat that nothing will happen this year and I’ve switched. If you’re gonna cut the players salaries cut it fairly for everyone. This just screams greed by the owners. I don’t like it at all. It’s all business I get it. But the players are taking all the risk. Honestly if their are no fans in the stadiums what are the owners even going to pay for? The team salary? They are all gonna share electric costs they won’t have to pay for employees around the stadium or for food etc. other than players and management salaries which they’d have to pay for anyway they’re cutting their costs by what half if not more. While taking in massive tv contracts. Viewership should be through the roof as well especially if no fans can be at the games. It’s a win for the owners. 

The TV contracts were already negotiated, and I’m sure it’s for a prorated portion of games being played.  Also I highly doubt ratings matter at this point to the owners in the sense of that meaning more money for the owners.  The networks would benefit but unless you own the network there’s no gain.  Also there are a ton of other costs in addition to player and manager salaries.  Things like all utilities at the stadium, groundskeepers, all travel including air, bus and flights and per diem.   Also it isn’t like they only pay for what’s happening this season.   They have to start paying for advertising for the future.  Once they start playing again they will bring back scouting.   Medical staff as well.  
Also for Arte he might be fine because he might get $75 million of his $150 million tv contract.   But I think I read no revenue sharing between teams this year.  which would mean there will be teams that get less than $50 million from their tv contracts with no help coming.  
I’m on the players side but it isn’t as simple as some people make it out to be.  
Now it’s possible you are going off of an old plan since you mentioned they’d all share in the cost of the electrical.  The latest proposal has them playing in their home stadium.  

[ten ocho recon scout]

8 hours ago, RendZone said:

 

Ive mentioned this before. I LOVE the fountain valley body works guy.

His ending guarantee.... where he says "if you arent satisfied with the work.... I want to hear about it!" is legit as hell. 

Because hes not saying "we'll fix it" "your money back" or anything like that.

Just drop him a note, and they'll try harder next time.

[ten ocho recon scout]

7 hours ago, Kevinb said:

Problem is the bosses aren’t running out of money. Arte turned a 150 million dollar clout chase into a 2 billion dollar franchise. 

Regardless of how much he profited in the past, that doesnt mean anything going forward. JC Penny just went bankrupt, and at one point they were an industry giant.

Keep in mind Im arguing the scenario with no fans. I think youre arguing from the standpoint baseball is about to start with fans back, like normal. Either one of us could be correct. 

If the season starts like normal, i agree, pay the players. 

But if there arent any fans, there wont be any revenue coming in. At least not any more than the tv deal. And that on its own wont cover the payroll.

 

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

Again, I just hope both sides work out something fair... and that both sides realize just getting back and playing to entertain people is more important than making money right now....

[Mark PT]

13 hours ago, RendZone said:

MLB is already dealing with the recent fentanyl death, sign stealing scandal, juiced baseballs, the sticky baseball guy and now this. MLB continues to embarrass itself. MLB needs to pull the plug on 2020, regroup, realign divisions, commence early GM / owners meetings and come back fresh next season and be ready for spring. 

What is really dumb is that every sports fan has been dying for anything for 2 months. This is a great opportunity for baseball to step in fill that demand and may blow this.

[Claude]

Just now, Mark PT said:

What is really dumb is that every sports fan has been dying for anything for 2 months. This is a great opportunity for baseball to step in fill that demand and may blow this.

MLB has some cleaning up to do and that opportunity is staring at them right in the face. Yep, they may blow this.

[Claude]

1 hour ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Again, I just hope both sides work out something fair... and that both sides realize just getting back and playing to entertain people is more important than making money right now....

If the players give in to something that they really don’t think is a fair deal we could see some very lackluster baseball. Half pay may trigger half the effort. 

[yk9001]

I quit giving a shit in millionaire vs. billionaire struggles about 2 decades ago.  There isn't a machine invented that can measure how little shit I give whether Trout makes $30 million this year, or $8 million.

NHL - working on specifics to get playoffs going

NBA - working on specifics to get playoffs going

NFL - held a seamless draft, and working on specifics to get the regular season going

MLB - player's union unhappy about the owner's proposal 

 

MLB is going to be as relevant as MLS the way they are going

[Jeremiah]

There's also the fact that the players and essential personnel are assuming 90% of the health risks. Ownership/management doesn't necessarily need to travel or even be at the games. Trout and his wife have a baby on the way. I'm sure other MLB families do too. There are also likely families who have kids/spouses that have compromised immune systems. The money is a huge concern, but I'm sure this goes beyond the money concerns.

[Tank]

9 hours ago, Kevinb said:

I’d say prorated for how ever many games they want to play. Either that or u take off more from this year but u guarantee it over the course of the contract. So if they’re prorated to 15 but also take 5 additional million. I add that 5 million to the 3 years he has on his contract or whatever. I think that’s fair for all parties. What say you?

so you want to pay players for games that weren't played? no way the owners agree to that, nor should they.

there's no income stream for the owners when there aren't any fans. they'll make some money because of their tv deals, but that will be prorated because it isn't going to be a full season.

players need to lighten up. the optics on this are horrible considering how many people in the public have lost their jobs in the last two months. they're not going to side with anyone who demands they get their millions at a time when many fans are struggling to get by each day.

[yk9001]

2 minutes ago, Jeremiah said:

There's also the fact that the players and essential personnel are assuming 90% of the health risks. Ownership/management doesn't necessarily need to travel or even be at the games. Trout and his wife have a baby on the way. I'm sure other MLB families do too. There are also likely families who have kids/spouses that have compromised immune systems. The money is a huge concern, but I'm sure this goes beyond the money concerns.

oh for fuck's sake.  Walmart clerks have been working on the covid front lines for the last three months.  JFC, I think Trout, with access to daily testing and the best medical care in the world, will be fine.

[kevinb]

4 minutes ago, Tank said:

so you want to pay players for games that weren't played? no way the owners agree to that, nor should they.

there's no income stream for the owners when there aren't any fans. they'll make some money because of their tv deals, but that will be prorated because it isn't going to be a full season.

players need to lighten up. the optics on this are horrible considering how many people in the public have lost their jobs in the last two months. they're not going to side with anyone who demands they get their millions at a time when many fans are struggling to get by each day.

Other people losing jobs has zero bearing on what baseball players should do it isn’t apples to apples. I don’t know why people keep bringing it up. It’s like when people say I can’t believe such in such player made this much money. Teachers make x. Teachers are more important. It’s not a fair argument. Players are the ones risking everything here. Whatever proposal. They’ll be the ones in the dug our playing in close quarters w other people etc. and @Stradling I’m going off whatever proposal it was when they would play in one or two states. Like what the NHL has agreed to or what the NBA looks like it’s about to agree to. Their costs would go down a lot in that proposal. Have they now changed the proposal to play in home stadiums and are traveling etc? I haven’t seen anything if that is indeed the case. 

[Stradling]

Trout might befine, but what about Kenley Jansen, or the pitcher from the Indians who had cancer?  

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Other people losing jobs has zero bearing on what baseball players should do it isn’t apples to apples. I don’t know why people keep bringing it up. It’s like when people say I can’t believe such in such player made this much money. Teachers make x. Teachers are more important. It’s not a fair argument. Players are the ones risking everything here. Whatever proposal. They’ll be the ones in the dug our playing in close quarters w other people etc. and @Stradling I’m going off whatever proposal it was when they would play in one or two states. Like what the NHL has agreed to or what the NBA looks like it’s about to agree to. Their costs would go down a lot in that proposal. Have they now changed the proposal to play in home stadiums and are traveling etc? I haven’t seen anything if that is indeed the case. 

Yes the most recent proposals for the last few weeks have them playing in their home stadiums.