It's possible the Angels pitching situation isn't as dire as we make it to be...

[Jay]

With the addition of Rendon, it will be more fun to watch the Angels lose next season.

 

[eligrba]

29 minutes ago, Jay said:

With the addition of Rendon, it will be more fun to watch the Angels lose next season.

 

This might be true for you.  I think the Angels are not finished and won't be finished until the trading deadline. 

[ukyah]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

that's kind of like saying: "other than banging Olivia Munn, I've been on a bit of a dry spell"

not really. it's more like saying, "i've been lifting weights to help with my cancer."

while the lifting weights and strength building are great, it's not really addressing the cancer.

 

[Angel Oracle]

3 hours ago, Blarg said:

No, Marsh is going to play in Salt Lake this season, take over for Goodwin as the 4th outfielder in 2021 while Upton transitions to DH and 1st base. By 2022 the outfield will be Marsh, Trout & Adell. That's called the long game plan not, what is happening at this very moment. 

Agree, except that I can see Marsh taking over in RF in ST 2021.   Upton can become 1B/DH then, as Stella is a FA after 2020.

[angelsnationtalk]

I hear where you're coming. We are all hoping the rotation performs to their potential. Looking at the the prime of Mike Trout I don't think we're in a position to wait for these guys to develop. Financially, the Angels could afford getting Keuchel and trading for Jon Gray of the Rockies. We still don't have an ace and we can all agree it likely wins you rings. 
Look at the last 5 teams to win a World Series and the rotations they had.
2019 Nationals: Max Scherezer, Stephen Strasburg, Anibal Snachez/Patrick Corbin
2018 Red Sox: David Price, Chris Sale, Nathan Eovaldi/Rick Porcello 
2017 Astros: Justin Verlander, Dallas Keuchel, Lance McCullers Jr
2016 Cubs: Jon Lester, Jake Arrieta, Ky;e Hendricks, John Lackey
2015 Royals: Johnny Cueto, Edinson Volquez, Yordano Ventura

The Angels can compile a team of solid #3-5 starters, but until they get a solid Ace and #2 starter they will struggle to compete for a title. We've seen in the past that good pitching will win you games. Signing Anthony Rendon is great, but it still gets us a Wild Card chance. Being able to get Keuchel gets us a step ahead, but we still need rotation help and betting that everyone plays as expected, let alone stays healthy, is a far stretch.

We can't let Arte stay set on winning games 9-8. if they Angels can work creativity to get an ace within the next two years then our outlook is much better. I hope Ohtani fits that role, but we need him healthy first.

[kevinb]

If the Angels don't add good pitching we aren't making the playoffs it's pretty simple. This team has added one pitcher in Bundy. That's not going to cut it. 

[totdprods]

17 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

I hear where you're coming. We are all hoping the rotation performs to their potential. Looking at the the prime of Mike Trout I don't think we're in a position to wait for these guys to develop. Financially, the Angels could afford getting Keuchel and trading for Jon Gray of the Rockies. We still don't have an ace and we can all agree it likely wins you rings. 
Look at the last 5 teams to win a World Series and the rotations they had.
2019 Nationals: Max Scherezer, Stephen Strasburg, Anibal Snachez/Patrick Corbin
2018 Red Sox: David Price, Chris Sale, Nathan Eovaldi/Rick Porcello 
2017 Astros: Justin Verlander, Dallas Keuchel, Lance McCullers Jr
2016 Cubs: Jon Lester, Jake Arrieta, Ky;e Hendricks, John Lackey
2015 Royals: Johnny Cueto, Edinson Volquez, Yordano Ventura

The Angels can compile a team of solid #3-5 starters, but until they get a solid Ace and #2 starter they will struggle to compete for a title. We've seen in the past that good pitching will win you games. Signing Anthony Rendon is great, but it still gets us a Wild Card chance. Being able to get Keuchel gets us a step ahead, but we still need rotation help and betting that everyone plays as expected, let alone stays healthy, is a far stretch.

We can't let Arte stay set on winning games 9-8. if they Angels can work creativity to get an ace within the next two years then our outlook is much better. I hope Ohtani fits that role, but we need him healthy first.

Might just be me, but I think going all-out it be a WS winner in 2020 is a bit unrealistic and damaging. I know that’s what we all want, but, even if the Angels just win 90+ and make the second WC, it’d do the trick. Next season isn’t the window, it’s just the beginning. We don’t need to make moves to win it all in 2020. Just win. Preserve the window.

[eaterfan]

There were only 2 guys who were aces on the market. I think Strasburg was going back to the Nats the whole time and we put forth a good effort on Cole. Wheeler would have been a nice sign, but he's not an ace. No one knows if Kluber is an ace anymore, either. We don't even know if he's a #3 pitcher anymore. Once Stras and Cole were off the market this team was going to have to get it done with mid-rotation starters and those type of guys are still available. 

But it's for this reason, that I suggested earlier, that signing one of Ryu or Keuchel would allow the flexibility to go after an ace, if one becomes available next season, as a full or partial salary dump.

1. Ryu/Keuchel

2. Ohtani

3. Heaney

4. Bundy

5. Canning - Suarez and Sandoval as back ups

Perhaps the Mets fall out before the deadline and they want to unload a pitcher, maybe the Yankees run away with things and Tampa or Boston are looking to sell, Cleveland or Minnesota could be sellers. There may be pitching available throughout the year that would be more of an upgrade than adding a mid-rotation innings eater.

[angelsnationtalk]

3 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Might just be me, but I think going all-out it be a WS winner in 2020 is a bit unrealistic and damaging. I know that’s what we all want, but, even if the Angels just win 90+ and make the second WC, it’d do the trick. Next season isn’t the window, it’s just the beginning. We don’t need to make moves to win it all in 2020. Just win. Preserve the window.

I agree. I'm not saying we need to go all out, but what I'm saying is they need to start getting pitchers that fit the window for the next 1-5 years. The only urgency the Angels need right now is to get to the playoffs this season. No more wasting Trout's service. Start by making the WC this year and only get better as the years progress.

[Tank]

we won a WS with jarrod washburn as our ace and kevin appier as our #2.

anything is possible.

i'd still sign keuchel and look to trade for another established pitcher.

[tdawg87]

35 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

I hear where you're coming.

[ScottM]

It's possible I marry Selena Gomez. 

[Tank]

3 minutes ago, ScottSted said:

It's possible I marry Selena Gomez. 

i'm having lunch with her on friday. i'll put in a good word for you.

[kevinb]

36 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Might just be me, but I think going all-out it be a WS winner in 2020 is a bit unrealistic and damaging. I know that’s what we all want, but, even if the Angels just win 90+ and make the second WC, it’d do the trick. Next season isn’t the window, it’s just the beginning. We don’t need to make moves to win it all in 2020. Just win. Preserve the window.

Adding two starting pitchers isn’t going all in. It’s giving our team a chance. You don’t sign Rendon and Trout and not give them a fighting chance to make the playoffs. Right now our rotation is worst in the league. That’s just plain stupid. You must give them a fighting chance at least put them middle of the pack. But to just add Bundy is unacceptable. Every team needs some luck along the way to win a title. But to just hang on luck for the entire rotation is just plain bad. No ones asking for 4 aces. Just add good starting pitching. 

[Pancake Bear]

17 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Right now our rotation is worst in the league.

That was last year’s. We have Ohtani and Bundy. That alone will make this team better. We have an actual pitching coach. That will also help. 

I’m not saying it’ll be amazing. We’re still in the bottom half, IMO, but your statement just isn’t at all likely to be true. 

[kevinb]

1 minute ago, Pancake Bear said:

That was last year’s. We have Ohtani and Bundy. That alone will make this team better. We have an actual pitching coach. That will also help. 

I’m not saying it’ll be amazing. We’re still in the bottom half, IMO, but your statement just isn’t at all likely to be true. 

We have no clue how Ohtani will react after TJ surgery. Being a year and a half removed from pitching there will have to be at least some sort of rust. Bundy as others have stated is just more of the same of what we already have. He pitches more innings but ... This team needs pitching and it needs it in the worst way, if we are wanting to be taken seriously as contenders for a division title and more. 

[tdawg87]

Dylan Bundy looks like Manbearpig.

[Jay]

8 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

That was last year’s. We have Ohtani and Bundy. That alone will make this team better. We have an actual pitching coach. That will also help. 

I’m not saying it’ll be amazing. We’re still in the bottom half, IMO, but your statement just isn’t at all likely to be true. 

A few days ago it was "Cole or we're losers"

Glad to see you have come off the ledge.

 

[Tank]

8 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Dylan Bundy looks like Manbearpig.

congratulations on offending half the people in north dakota with this post.

[Lou]

4 minutes ago, Tank said:

congratulations on offending half the people in north dakota with this post.

they have the internet?

[eaterfan]

1 minute ago, Jay said:

A few days ago it was "Cole or we're losers"

Glad to see you have come off the ledge.

 

I think Cole was certainly a cut above any FA pitcher out there. He would have gone a long way to addressing the pitching need. Strasburg would have been great. But increasing the production from the offense helped move this team forward too. 

None of the other guys out there are going to be impact signings. We may be losers because we missed out on Cole, but MadBum or IMO Kluber weren't going to change that any more than Ryu or Keuchel will. If they sign one of those guys that's 3 new pitchers compared to last year's rotation. I'd take the upside of Ohtani over anyone on the market except Cole and Stras. Adding 3 new pitchers without losing Adell, Marsh, or Sandoval and having some flexibility with payroll in the future is a step in the right direction.

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

Might just be me, but I think going all-out it be a WS winner in 2020 is a bit unrealistic and damaging. I know that’s what we all want, but, even if the Angels just win 90+ and make the second WC, it’d do the trick. Next season isn’t the window, it’s just the beginning. We don’t need to make moves to win it all in 2020. Just win. Preserve the window.

This, times a gillion.

As i said in another thread, the core is here for awhile. If the RIGHT piece is available, acquire it. Dont trade what little we have just for the sake of trying to compete this year.

And to the OP, I somewhat agree. We do need to add someone. But I think were all biased because of how bad its all been in recent years. If ohtani is hurt again, same with richards and canning, were screwed. And ryu (who has just as many ?s health wise as any) wont stop that.

If those 3 are healthy, we arent near the disaster it seems like.

Add someone. But add with the next window in mind, not yesterdays.

 

[hangin n wangin]

I really wish we signed Zack Wheeler for the deal that he got from the Phillies, especially after seeing what the rest of the free agent pitchers are getting. Wheeler throws upper 90's, has been pretty durable, the peripherals look good, and I believe he has a legitimate chance to get even better.

[yamsi12]

It’s the pitching, stupid.

[Pancake Bear]

27 minutes ago, Jay said:

A few days ago it was "Cole or we're losers"

Glad to see you have come off the ledge.

 

My position hasn’t changed. I’ve always thought without any moves our pitching will be an improvement on last year. Not being bottom of the league doesn’t make us contenders.

I still don’t think we have the pitching to be contenders and there’s no one available who does that for us. 

I said then that best case now is playoffs unless we get a lot of luck. I still believe that. Rendon helps. It was the best possible move with Cole off the table. But we’re still in a sucky position and without some serious voodoo roster management, I don’t think we’ll be anything close to favorites. 

Its virtually impossible to contend without an ace. We don’t have one. Unless we get lucky and Ohtani turns into one, we probably won’t go all the way for at least the next two years. Cole + the right additional moves would’ve given us a shot. 

But nice try attempting to win cheap points.