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It's possible the Angels pitching situation isn't as dire as we make it to be...


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57 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

We have no clue how Ohtani will react after TJ surgery. Being a year and a half removed from pitching there will have to be at least some sort of rust. Bundy as others have stated is just more of the same of what we already have. He pitches more innings but ... This team needs pitching and it needs it in the worst way, if we are wanting to be taken seriously as contenders for a division title and more. 

Bundy is more durable and less bad than Harvey and Cahill. He’s also leaving the AL East. That’s an improvement. 

But sure, we still have to improve. Obviously. That’s not at all the same as saying our pitching is worst in the league. 

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Just now, Pancake Bear said:

Bundy is more durable and less bad than Harvey and Cahill. He’s also leaving the AL East. That’s an improvement. 

But sure, we still have to improve. Obviously. That’s not at all the same as saying our pitching is worst in the league. 

He may have left the AL East. But AL West isn't going to be easy either. Astros Athletics are good and both made the playoffs last year. Rangers are getting better. Mariners are what they are. But still. Rotation needs to be improved if we are going to compete to win titles. 

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Just now, Kevinb said:

He may have left the AL East. But AL West isn't going to be easy either. Astros Athletics are good and both made the playoffs last year. Rangers are getting better. Mariners are what they are. But still. Rotation needs to be improved if we are going to compete to win titles. 

You still can’t admit you were wrong. Why am I not shocked. 

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2 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

You still can’t admit you were wrong. Why am I not shocked. 

I don't think I am wrong. I have no clue what Ohtani will be and Bundy is better but does that improve us from last in the league? I don't know. I have said what I have said. This pitching staff sucks it needs to get better. 

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Bundy, Keuchel and a trade likely adds 7 WAR over last year's rotation. 

I expect Canning to take a significant step forward, possibly becoming a 3 WAR pitcher himself. Heaney is what he is but he can still be a 2 WAR pitcher. Ohtani coming back is huge but he's not gonna top 130 innings, which kinda sucks. 

I like our depth, especially if we add two more starters. Heaney is basically the 6th starter, and then you have Sandoval (assuming he isn't traded), Peters, Barria, Suarez, and Pena. That's 11 pitchers deep.

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7 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Bundy, Keuchel and a trade likely adds 7 WAR over last year's rotation. 

I expect Canning to take a significant step forward, possibly becoming a 3 WAR pitcher himself. Heaney is what he is but he can still be a 2 WAR pitcher. Ohtani coming back is huge but he's not gonna top 130 innings, which kinda sucks. 

I like our depth, especially if we add two more starters. Heaney is basically the 6th starter, and then you have Sandoval (assuming he isn't traded), Peters, Barria, Suarez, and Pena. That's 11 pitchers deep.

I agree I think we need to add at least two starting pitchers who are better than we have right now. It would help take some of the load off the younger guys. Help groom them for the future as well. 

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One last time, the Angels are probably  not aquiring two pitchers with the current roster. They picked up Bundy to cover one of two spots open. They are not bumping Heaney or Canning out of the rotation. If they need a 6th starter to cover any gap between Ohtani starts they will promote the pitcher from AAA that is doing the best. This would be at most 10 starts, not worth trading pospects for. 

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17 minutes ago, Blarg said:

One last time, the Angels are probably  not aquiring two pitchers with the current roster. They picked up Bundy to cover one of two spots open. They are not bumping Heaney or Canning out of the rotation. If they need a 6th starter to cover any gap between Ohtani starts they will promote the pitcher from AAA that is doing the best. This would be at most 10 starts, not worth trading pospects for. 

They’ve already said they’re acquiring two. 

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19 minutes ago, VariousCrap said:


Both Fletcher and Gubiza have implied they have heard the Angels are looking to get two more pitchers.

 

Yeah, it isn’t like fans are coming up with this, Eppler said at Rendon’s press conference that they’re looking for two more. So apparently they’re planning on Canning being the sixth man up. 

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23 hours ago, Second Base said:

You know the narrative every bit as well as I do, so I won't waste your time rehashing it. Just to sum it up, the Angels pitching in 2019 was either the worst, or the second worst in baseball, depending on what you're looking at. 

But looking over things, the situation may not be as dire as we, myself included, have made it out to be. Consider the following points...

1. The Angels starting pitchers were among the youngest in baseball. Griffin Canning was the elder statesman at 23 years old. Patrick Sandoval and Jaime Barria were just 22. Jose Suarez was 21. It would be an absolute shock if all for it these guys didn't get better. 

2. There's some projection in that group of starters. We'll start with Canning, here was a top 100 prospect no matter who you ask. One of the best SP in college baseball gets drafted and every single offering takes a giant leap forward in it's quality. Nobody believes he'll be anything less than a mid rotation starter. Patrick Sandoval is a tall lefty that's throwing in the mid-90's and posted an ERA of 3.00 in A Ball, 2.23 in Advanced A Ball, and 2.50 in AA. The ERA ballooned in AAA Salt Lake but was still firmly better than the league average in the PCL. Jose Suarez is another lefty that can reach the mid-90's and absolutely dominated Advanced A Ball and AA, at the tender age of 20. Jaime Barria posted a 3.41 ERA across 130 major league innings at age 21. This was a natural extension of the dominance he displayed at every stop in the minors. 

Barria, Suarez and Sandoval were seen at worst, as back of the rotation starters. 

3. Shohei is back. Even if you believe that he isn't better than what he showed in his 10 starts from 2018, that's still a strikeout heavy mid rotation starter you're getting. 

4. Andrew Heaney is better than we thought. Before last year, Heaney was never bad as much as he was injured. When he was healthy, he was a solid #3/4 starter. And that fit the bill. Heaney was a former first round pick and elite LHP prospect. Quality was never in question. Then last year happened. And when we look at the underlying numbers we aren't really sure the cause, outside of the ball simply left the yard a lot more. But it did for everybody. The quality and location of Heaney's offerings remained consistent. A bounce back here looks downright likely.

5. Dylan Bundy might be one of the better buy low acquisitions of the Winter. If nothing else, you know you're going to get innings from him. But the long ball plagued him last year. Moving out of Baltimore, out of the AL East, to Anaheim, with an elite defensive unit behind him could allow Bundy to suppress runs more than he's ever done in his career. The promise of being an ace has since passed with the velocity. But there is reason to believe he could be more than a serviceable 5th starter. 

6. Calloway. He's not magic, but he is good at what he does. Every starter will get better after having an actual pitching coach work with them. 

-----

If all this works out on the Angels favor, Ohtani would be an ace, Canning a mid rotation starter, with Heaney, Bundy, Sandoval, Barria and Suarez all being decent #4 starters.

It requires a lot to go the Angels way, and I'm not advocating they don't make any acquisitions. But I am saying, it's possible the Angels would still be a competitive team without the acquisitions that we all know are coming.

This honestly sounds like a battered wife sticking up for her husband.  "he's not so bad, he only beats me when he drinks" and "i think he wants to change"   It's going to be a long season if we have to count on all these guys turning it around in one off season.

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1 hour ago, Stradling said:

Bundy isn’t great but he’s a huge improvement over what we’ve had.  He went 5+ innings in 26 of his 30 starts last year.  He also gave up 3 earned runs or less in 22 of his 30 starts.  He kept the team in the game 70% of his starts. 

2002 Angels and the Reds, during the Big Red Machine days, won the WS with guys that were asked only to get into the 6th inning and keeping the team in the game. They let the bullpens and offense do the rest. I am hoping we see this again.

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1 hour ago, Pancake Bear said:

Yeah, it isn’t like fans are coming up with this, Eppler said at Rendon’s press conference that they’re looking for two more. So apparently they’re planning on Canning being the sixth man up. 

Did Eppler say two starters or two pitchers?


Sign Ryu or Keuchel soonest!  It will give a bit more leverage in the trade market.

 

Did

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2 minutes ago, Revad said:

Did Eppler say two starters or two pitchers?


Sign Ryu or Keuchel soonest!  It will give a bit more leverage in the trade market.

 

Did

I do wonder if teams are shaking Eppler down since we have the most obvious need for starting pitching. The ask for Kluber was so ridiculous that it just makes me feel like they’re inflating their prices because they know we need a pitcher. 

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5 hours ago, Pancake Bear said:

They’ve already said they’re acquiring two. 

No they didn’t. 
 

Eppler said they could possibly acquire two, and if they did at least one would have to be a trade. 
 

I asked because everyone seems to think they need two more, but the more I’ve been thinking about it, I think they are really shooting for one and then maybe if they get a second it’ll be someone with upside or options or who can go to the pen. 
 

Either that or they trade Canning.

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4 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

No they didn’t. 
 

Eppler said they could possibly acquire two, and if they did at least one would have to be a trade. 
 

I asked because everyone seems to think they need two more, but the more I’ve been thinking about it, I think they are really shooting for one and then maybe if they get a second it’ll be someone with upside or options or who can go to the pen. 
 

Either that or they trade Canning.

I believe now is the time to make a trade for a top tier pitcher ... even if it meant trading a couple of top 10 prospects. This is why a good farm is important ... what’s your thoughts 💭 

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