It's possible the Angels pitching situation isn't as dire as we make it to be...

[Second Base]

You know the narrative every bit as well as I do, so I won't waste your time rehashing it. Just to sum it up, the Angels pitching in 2019 was either the worst, or the second worst in baseball, depending on what you're looking at. 

But looking over things, the situation may not be as dire as we, myself included, have made it out to be. Consider the following points...

1. The Angels starting pitchers were among the youngest in baseball. Griffin Canning was the elder statesman at 23 years old. Patrick Sandoval and Jaime Barria were just 22. Jose Suarez was 21. It would be an absolute shock if all for it these guys didn't get better. 

2. There's some projection in that group of starters. We'll start with Canning, here was a top 100 prospect no matter who you ask. One of the best SP in college baseball gets drafted and every single offering takes a giant leap forward in it's quality. Nobody believes he'll be anything less than a mid rotation starter. Patrick Sandoval is a tall lefty that's throwing in the mid-90's and posted an ERA of 3.00 in A Ball, 2.23 in Advanced A Ball, and 2.50 in AA. The ERA ballooned in AAA Salt Lake but was still firmly better than the league average in the PCL. Jose Suarez is another lefty that can reach the mid-90's and absolutely dominated Advanced A Ball and AA, at the tender age of 20. Jaime Barria posted a 3.41 ERA across 130 major league innings at age 21. This was a natural extension of the dominance he displayed at every stop in the minors. 

Barria, Suarez and Sandoval were seen at worst, as back of the rotation starters. 

3. Shohei is back. Even if you believe that he isn't better than what he showed in his 10 starts from 2018, that's still a strikeout heavy mid rotation starter you're getting. 

4. Andrew Heaney is better than we thought. Before last year, Heaney was never bad as much as he was injured. When he was healthy, he was a solid #3/4 starter. And that fit the bill. Heaney was a former first round pick and elite LHP prospect. Quality was never in question. Then last year happened. And when we look at the underlying numbers we aren't really sure the cause, outside of the ball simply left the yard a lot more. But it did for everybody. The quality and location of Heaney's offerings remained consistent. A bounce back here looks downright likely.

5. Dylan Bundy might be one of the better buy low acquisitions of the Winter. If nothing else, you know you're going to get innings from him. But the long ball plagued him last year. Moving out of Baltimore, out of the AL East, to Anaheim, with an elite defensive unit behind him could allow Bundy to suppress runs more than he's ever done in his career. The promise of being an ace has since passed with the velocity. But there is reason to believe he could be more than a serviceable 5th starter. 

6. Calloway. He's not magic, but he is good at what he does. Every starter will get better after having an actual pitching coach work with them. 

-----

If all this works out on the Angels favor, Ohtani would be an ace, Canning a mid rotation starter, with Heaney, Bundy, Sandoval, Barria and Suarez all being decent #4 starters.

It requires a lot to go the Angels way, and I'm not advocating they don't make any acquisitions. But I am saying, it's possible the Angels would still be a competitive team without the acquisitions that we all know are coming.

Edited December 16, 2019 by Second Base

[T.G.]

Maybe

[stormngt]

Anything is possible

[Turd Ferguson]

I’ve always wondered about the view from rose colored glasses...

[Justin]

12 minutes ago, Second Base said:

If all this works out on the Angels favor

12 minutes ago, Second Base said:

It requires a lot to go the Angels way

I mean... eventually we have to have good luck. Right?

 

[failos]

[Lou]

[Second Base]

Easy gents! I'm still saying we need pitching, I'm just saying it might not be as life and death for the 2020 season has it has been made out to be.

[mulwin444]

7 minutes ago, failos said:

"Hey, Mike, will Mother let you go outside by yourself?"

Mike: ...

[mulwin444]

3 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Easy gents! I'm still saying we need pitching, I'm just saying it might not be as life and death for the 2020 season has it has been made out to be.

We can never develop pitching...until we can...you see?

[CanadianHalo]

Looks like we’ve come full circle and we’re at the point where we try convincing ourselves these guys are better than they are and that Andrew Heaney will stay healthy. 
 

Yes, we NEED pitching if we want to compete for a WC spot this season. Real pitching. None of this Robbie Ray or Wade Miley bullshit 

[Lou]

5 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Easy gents! I'm still saying we need pitching, I'm just saying it might not be as life and death for the 2020 season has it has been made out to be.

people think it's death? 

[Lou]

Just now, CanadianHalo said:

Looks like we’ve come full circle and we’re at the point where we try convincing ourselves these guys are better than they are and that Andrew Heaney will stay healthy. 
 

if you read the responses, you would realize this isn't true

[Second Base]

7 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

We can never develop pitching...until we can...you see?

I think that narrative may be fair though. Sandoval wasn't drafted by Eppler, Billy traded for him. And Eppler didn't sign Barria or Suarez. The only reason why Eppler managed to get Canning was because he sort of fell into his lap amid medical concerns.

Eppler has developed pitchers. But as far as investing high dollar amounts in pitching....no, not so much. And that works when the goal is to develop 5th starters. But at some point, the top talent can't be had unless you're willing to allocate top dollar.

Edited December 16, 2019 by Second Base

[Second Base]

2 minutes ago, Lou said:

people think it's death? 

For the 2020 season? Yeah I think so.

[Second Base]

3 minutes ago, CanadianHalo said:

Looks like we’ve come full circle and we’re at the point where we try convincing ourselves these guys are better than they are and that Andrew Heaney will stay healthy. 
 

Yes, we NEED pitching if we want to compete for a WC spot this season. Real pitching. None of this Robbie Ray or Wade Miley bullshit 

Robbie Ray would be a terrific second acquisition as long as the price was reasonable, which it likely wouldn't be.

[JustATroutFan]

Heaney's future once looked promising. He was solid his first year with the Angels. Went 6-4 with a 3.49 in 105.2 innings pitched in 2015. Then the injuries happened. Could he still be the 2015 version? It's possible but not looking good right now. 

[Lou]

Just now, Second Base said:

For the 2020 season? Yeah I think so.

[Second Base]

Just now, Lou said:

Oddly applicable. Dunno how you found that.

[mulwin444]

Just now, Second Base said:

I think that narrative may be fair though. Sandoval wasn't drafted by Eppler, Billy traded for him. And Eppler didn't sign Barria or Suarez. The only reason why Eppler managed to get Canning was because he sort of feel into his lap and medical concerns.

Eppler's refine has developed pitchers. But as far as investing high dollar amounts in pitching....no, not so much. And that works when the goal is to develop 5th starters. But at some point, the top talent can't be had unless you're willing to allocate top dollar.

He still took a chance on Canning...he made the move.  This "falling in his lap" stuff is the kind hedging I see when credit is not given when credit is due...like when we sign Vlad back in 2004.  If it was easier to develop 1-3 starters, teams would have more of them as opposed to paying $20+ mil a year or trading top prospects for them.

[mulwin444]

5 minutes ago, Lou said:

if you read the responses, you would realize this isn't true

Hahaha..."read"

[Lou]

Just now, Second Base said:

Oddly applicable. Dunno how you found that.

[Second Base]

9 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

He still took a chance on Canning...he made the move.  This "falling in his lap" stuff is the kind hedging I see when credit is not given when credit is due...like when we sign Vlad back in 2004.  If it was easier to develop 1-3 starters, teams would have more of them as opposed to paying $20+ mil a year or trading top prospects for them.

I mean yes, he took a chance in Canning, but Canning should've been drafted in the first half of the first round. Eppler didn't invest in Canning the way you'd typically need to invest in order to acquire a prospect of his caliber. 

Eppler's regime has been very hesitant to allocate significant resources on one single pitching prospect with hype.

[Docwaukee]

12 minutes ago, Second Base said:

I mean yes, he took a chance in Canning, but Canning should've been drafted in the first half of the first round. Eppler didn't invest in Canning the way you'd typically need to invest in order to acquire a prospect of his caliber. 

Eppler's regime has been very hesitant to allocate significant resources on one single pitching prospect with hype.

this is true.  One true pitcher drafted in rounds 1 or 2.  No high end international pitching prospects sans Ohtani who is obviously a unique opportunity.  

btw, unless you have the first pick in the draft, every player falls into your lap.  

and can you start spelling Callaway right?  

I also agree with your original premise that the in house options aren't the catastrophe people think.  It would result in a below avg. rotation but not the worst in baseball like 2019. 

[floplag]

Is it as bad as it was last seasons, no, i think they guys on the roster will be better.  The kids will take the next steps, Ohtani will return, i think they will improve.
BUT,  if we go into the season with what we have now, well be lucky to get third place