It's possible the Angels pitching situation isn't as dire as we make it to be...

[Angel Oracle]

4 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

That depends which prospects and for which player. You can’t answer this question without specifics. 
 

I think the best pitcher they could possibly acquire is Syndergaard, but I am not sure there’s a way to do that without trading Adell. I even thought about a combo of Marsh and Canning, but I don’t think even that works since Canning finished last year hurt. The Mets would need to feel they were better off after the trade and I’m not sure that’s possible. 
 

Maybe what the Kluber talks demonstrated is the Angels traceable assets aren’t as attractive as they thought. 

This is where I'm hoping that a few of these many pitchers drafted, or foreign signed, over the past 2-3 years can work out eventually.   The true pitching depth on the farm still leaves something to be desired.    

[nate]

And it is possible I will grow to average height in my 40s, but I wouldn't count on it.

[failos]

I was thinking about this and it’s very possible Canning and Sandoval will have a good year. Barria and Suarez ? Maybe. But the staff needs an ace type to wrangle them in

Edited December 17, 2019 by failos

[Angels_Make_Me_Drink]

5 minutes ago, failos said:

I was thinking about this and it’s very possible Canning and Sandoval will have a good year. Barria and Suarez ? Maybe. But the staff needs an ace type to wrangle them in

I agree, I think Canning and Sandoval take big steps this year. I'm just not sold on Barria and Suarez and if one of them could be included in a package to land a top line starter, I'm okay with that.

[failos]

10 minutes ago, nate said:

And it is possible I will grow to average height in my 40s, but I wouldn't count on it.

No that’s actually impossible.

[failos]

3 minutes ago, Angels_Make_Me_Drink said:

I agree, I think Canning and Sandoval take big steps this year. I'm just not sold on Barria and Suarez and if one of them could be included in a package to land a top line starter, I'm okay with that.

The upside of Barria and Suarez is that they’re very young. Suarez should’ve been in the minors last season. I would say trading them is a bad idea.

[T.G.]

4 minutes ago, failos said:

No that’s actually impossible.

[Dtwncbad]

51 minutes ago, failos said:

The upside of Barria and Suarez is that they’re very young. Suarez should’ve been in the minors last season. I would say trading them is a bad idea.

And I would say a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.  I would gladly trade them if it was a deal that delivered the horse (or “bird”) the Angels are looking for.

[Tank]

1 hour ago, failos said:

I was thinking about this and it’s very possible Canning and Sandoval will have a good year. Barria and Suarez ? Maybe. But the staff needs an ace type to wrangle them in

hey @Stradling, don't they put growth hormones in each double-double?

you need to move, nate.

[T.G.]

1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

And I would say a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Umm... not likely. 

[krAbs]

Its possible that we are (as a group) underestimating Barria a little.

https://theathletic.com/1161472/2019/08/26/it-gets-harder-every-time-angels-pitcher-jaime-barria-frustrated-by-frequent-demotions/

I don't have a subscription, but it sounds like this article goes into how Doug White kinda broke Barria. This somehow escaped my radar when it came out, but man...brief summary from reddit: "Doug White tried to make him throw four seamers up in the zone like every other pitcher in the league. Barría to my understanding was having a melt down (mentally and statistically) with being forced to change his style."

If that's true....1. fuck Doug, and 2. he becomes a prime candidate to get back to his roots and have a big bounce back year. Still want to pick up at least one more top of the rotation guy, but pieces like this could be huge next year.

[Mark68]

Is it possible? Yes.

Is it likely? No.

[Inside Pitch]

On 12/15/2019 at 10:30 PM, Second Base said:

You know the narrative every bit as well as I do, so I won't waste your time rehashing it. Just to sum it up, the Angels pitching in 2019 was either the worst, or the second worst in baseball, depending on what you're looking at. 

But looking over things, the situation may not be as dire as we, myself included, have made it out to be. Consider the following points...

1. The Angels starting pitchers were among the youngest in baseball. Griffin Canning was the elder statesman at 23 years old. Patrick Sandoval and Jaime Barria were just 22. Jose Suarez was 21. It would be an absolute shock if all for it these guys didn't get better. 

2. There's some projection in that group of starters. We'll start with Canning, here was a top 100 prospect no matter who you ask. One of the best SP in college baseball gets drafted and every single offering takes a giant leap forward in it's quality. Nobody believes he'll be anything less than a mid rotation starter. Patrick Sandoval is a tall lefty that's throwing in the mid-90's and posted an ERA of 3.00 in A Ball, 2.23 in Advanced A Ball, and 2.50 in AA. The ERA ballooned in AAA Salt Lake but was still firmly better than the league average in the PCL. Jose Suarez is another lefty that can reach the mid-90's and absolutely dominated Advanced A Ball and AA, at the tender age of 20. Jaime Barria posted a 3.41 ERA across 130 major league innings at age 21. This was a natural extension of the dominance he displayed at every stop in the minors. 

Barria, Suarez and Sandoval were seen at worst, as back of the rotation starters. 

3. Shohei is back. Even if you believe that he isn't better than what he showed in his 10 starts from 2018, that's still a strikeout heavy mid rotation starter you're getting. 

4. Andrew Heaney is better than we thought. Before last year, Heaney was never bad as much as he was injured. When he was healthy, he was a solid #3/4 starter. And that fit the bill. Heaney was a former first round pick and elite LHP prospect. Quality was never in question. Then last year happened. And when we look at the underlying numbers we aren't really sure the cause, outside of the ball simply left the yard a lot more. But it did for everybody. The quality and location of Heaney's offerings remained consistent. A bounce back here looks downright likely.

5. Dylan Bundy might be one of the better buy low acquisitions of the Winter. If nothing else, you know you're going to get innings from him. But the long ball plagued him last year. Moving out of Baltimore, out of the AL East, to Anaheim, with an elite defensive unit behind him could allow Bundy to suppress runs more than he's ever done in his career. The promise of being an ace has since passed with the velocity. But there is reason to believe he could be more than a serviceable 5th starter. 

6. Calloway. He's not magic, but he is good at what he does. Every starter will get better after having an actual pitching coach work with them. 

-----

So...  Was all of this bullshit now that you are firmly in the "Angels rotation sucks" mindset.  Or are you including yourself as one of the people dumbed down? 

 

On 12/15/2019 at 10:30 PM, Second Base said:

If all this works out on the Angels favor, Ohtani would be an ace, Canning a mid rotation starter, with Heaney, Bundy, Sandoval, Barria and Suarez all being decent #4 starters.

It requires a lot to go the Angels way, and I'm not advocating they don't make any acquisitions. But I am saying, it's possible the Angels would still be a competitive team without the acquisitions that we all know are coming.

This is from the same exact post..   I'd sooner argue that most everyone sees it like YOU did here.   

People are hoping the young guys step up and play up to their talents.   Nobody thinks there is an Ace anywhere save for maybe Ohtani and he's a health risk.  But I think the majority believe the team can be competitive.  Does competitive mean championship caliber -- nope.   But, hopefully it's something they can revisit at some point during the season and if there is the chance to improve, they take it. 

Seriously...  You're railing against your own December arguments.

[Rally Gorilla]

I have no illusions that our rotation is anything but average to less-than-average....but last season we were a dead-last dumpster fire.    I'm excited to see how just having a middle-of-the-road  rotation will allow the rest of the team to shine.   We should have a great defense.   We should have a great lineup.   Our BP isn't as likely to burn up trying to pitch five innings a game.      Maybe just ok is gonna make a huge impact.    

[Lou]

IP with the 

 

[tdawg87]

10 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

So...  Was all of this bullshit now that you are firmly in the "Angels rotation sucks" mindset.  Or are you including yourself as one of the people dumbed down? 

 

This is from the same exact post..   I'd sooner argue that most everyone sees it like YOU did here.   

People are hoping the young guys step up and play up to their talents.   Nobody thinks there is an Ace anywhere save for maybe Ohtani and he's a health risk.  But I think the majority believe the team can be competitive.  Does competitive mean championship caliber -- nope.   But, hopefully it's something they can revisit at some point during the season and if there is the chance to improve, they take it. 

Seriously...  You're railing against your own December arguments.

Hello, police? I'd like to report a murder.

[Lou]

SecondBase is the new Blacknight.