If you don't think that starting pitching is the problem.....

[mulwin444]

It's game 17...

(Shrug)

Angels were 1-6 just a bit ago...then they were one game over...now one game under.

It's a long season... 

[fan_since79]

10 hours ago, Stradling said:

We have better records, but we are not better than those teams.  

Well, the Yankees have been devastated already by injuries, so at the present time we might be marginally better. 

[Stradling]

10 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

Well, the Yankees have been devastated already by injuries, so at the present time we might be marginally better. 

Wow, I just looked at that line up.  It’s not good.  I didn’t know that Stanton was hurt. Sanchez must be hurt too.  

[DMVol]

1 hour ago, AngelsFaninGA said:

....The shine wore off of Cahill and Harvey pretty quickly. 

I don't think there was much shine there to begin with....but that's me...

[floplag]

There are 2 types of baseball fans; those who think starting pitching is everything, and the rest of us.  If you believe that SP is THE problem when both hitting and starting pitching are in the bottom third of the league, you fall in the former.  

[Blarg]

The Angels, right now, are not a good team. 

[UndertheHalo]

9 hours ago, Dochalo said:

bad offense puts stress on the pitchers.  bad pitchers put stress on the offense.  everything you've said could be turned around on to the starting pitching.  

how can you say a top 10 offense (last year of course) is more to blame than a bottom 12 pitching staff?  but it's not about last year.  

and are we really considering BABIP an advanced stat these days?  

I agree that there are some guys to displace from the lineup.  I would like to see Cozart and Bourjos out.  Maybe we've caught some good fortune with Goodwin.  A better offense is a potential reality though with Ohtani over Albert, Upton over Bourjos, maybe Goodwin over Calhoun, Fletcher to the IF over Cozart. 

What's gonna make the starters better?  Heaney being in there will help but otherwise we're relying on improved performance.  That's as likely or probably less so than improved performance from the offense that's been subject to bad luck.  

The bottom line is that the offense has a much better chance to improve and be playoff worthy while the starting pitching is more about hoping and praying.  

Are you saying that on account of BABIP the offense sucks due to bad luck ? Come on Doc, you watch the team.  Calhoun and Pujols get shifted to death.  That’s not rough luck.  I said that cumulatively the team was 10th in runs.  I’m not ignoring that.  But I don’t think it’s necessarily correct to just look at that and say “oh, actually the line up is less of a problem”.  Again, look at the game logs.  How often are the Angels shut down, game by game.  It’s a lot man.  

Im not saying that the Angels don’t have pitching issues that they need to solve.  Of course they do.  I’m saying that zeros in the line up and more serious then the problem pitchers.  I’m saying finding a better 3B and 1B is more important then replacing like, Matt Harvey or whichever pitcher you’re thinking about.   How about being an AL team with a DH thats not a joke ? Seems pretty key to me. 

Edited April 17, 2019 by UndertheHalo

[AngelsLakersFan]

3 hours ago, Jay said:

So now that Dochalo says starting pitching is a problem, we can all finally agree that starting pitching is a problem.

Doesn't really matter though, Angels aren't expected to contend until 2021.

 

This will be a good team next year, or even by late this year. When Adell replaces Calhoun, and we add a couple of our pitching prospects to the rotation along with Ohtani we'll be looking a lot better. The big question is who plays third and who splits time at first.

[Stradling]

31 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Are you saying that on account of BABIP the offense sucks due to bad luck ? Come on Doc, you watch the team.  Calhoun and Pujols get shifted to death.  That’s not rough luck.  I said that cumulatively the team was 10th in runs.  I’m not ignoring that.  But I don’t think it’s necessarily correct to just look at that and say “oh, actually the line up is less of a problem”.  Again, look at the game logs.  How often are the Angels shut down, game by game.  It’s a lot man.  

Im not saying that the Angels don’t have pitching issues that they need to solve.  Of course they do.  I’m saying that zeros in the line up and more serious then the problem pitchers.  I’m saying finding a better 3B and 1B is more important then replacing like, Matt Harvey or whichever pitcher you’re thinking about.   How about being an AL team with a DH thats not a joke ? Seems pretty key to me. 

We have Ohtani coming back as our DH.  Not sure why we would expect having a great option sitting behind him.   I agree on third base obviously.  I think we will we a steady diet of Fletcher at 3rd, La Stella at 2nd when Upton is back.  I also won’t be surprised if Goodwin gets more starts than we thought in RF. 

[Docwaukee]

34 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Are you saying that on account of BABIP the offense sucks due to bad luck ? Come on Doc, you watch the team.  Calhoun and Pujols get shifted to death.  That’s not rough luck.  I said that cumulatively the team was 10th in runs.  I’m not ignoring that.  But I don’t think it’s necessarily correct to just look at that and say “oh, actually the line up is less of a problem”.  Again, look at the game logs.  How often are the Angels shut down, game by game.  It’s a lot man.  

Im not saying that the Angels don’t have pitching issues that they need to solve.  Of course they do.  I’m saying that zeros in the line up and more serious then the problem pitchers.  I’m saying finding a better 3B and 1B is more important then replacing like, Matt Harvey or whichever pitcher you’re thinking about.   How about being an AL team with a DH thats not a joke ? Seems pretty key to me. 

If we were on the low end of the league then I would blow it off.  We're 20 points lower than the next one up.  It would be the lowest in the history of baseball since the turn of the century by 23 points.  

Are you saying that a historical pace isn't likely to trend otherwise?  And we're talking historical by a huge amount.  It's essentially equivalent to Khris Davis 80hr pace.  

And even with that, the offense isn't nearly as bad as the starting pitching.  

 

Also, I get what you are saying in terms of game to game but that tends to work itself out over time.  Having some much of our offense concentrated into one player is something teams can game plan around.  But my point is that there is hope for the offense whereas with the SP, I'm not feeling it.  

[Mark PT]

13 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

What do you suggest Eppler should do?

Nothing he can do at the moment. He has been doing a great job so far. IT took him just 2 years to elevate the worst minor league system to what the 5 th best. It will take him a while to replace the starting staff.

[Mark68]

How many times have we had a pitcher get out of the 5th inning so far? Three? That's not going to cut it.

[UndertheHalo]

37 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

If we were on the low end of the league then I would blow it off.  We're 20 points lower than the next one up.  It would be the lowest in the history of baseball since the turn of the century by 23 points.  

Are you saying that a historical pace isn't likely to trend otherwise?  And we're talking historical by a huge amount.  It's essentially equivalent to Khris Davis 80hr pace.  

And even with that, the offense isn't nearly as bad as the starting pitching.  

 

Also, I get what you are saying in terms of game to game but that tends to work itself out over time.  Having some much of our offense concentrated into one player is something teams can game plan around.  But my point is that there is hope for the offense whereas with the SP, I'm not feeling it.  

I don’t know man, you know more about this then I do.  So I’ll defer to you about it.  I just have a ton of trouble getting around the offense.  I see the opposite as you.  I think that we have pitchers that we can work with.  And I think the line up is irredeemable.  Anyway.    Hopefully they can hang in there until they get healthier.  So far so good with that I guess.  

Edited April 17, 2019 by UndertheHalo

[UndertheHalo]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

We have Ohtani coming back as our DH.  Not sure why we would expect having a great option sitting behind him.   I agree on third base obviously.  I think we will we a steady diet of Fletcher at 3rd, La Stella at 2nd when Upton is back.  I also won’t be surprised if Goodwin gets more starts than we thought in RF. 

You’re right about Ohtani.  I misspoke.  And I definitely hope that Goodwin ends up pushing players and is a good find for us.  I think the early returns on Goodwin are that he’s pretty damn solid.   Not just because of the hot start.  But he has a nice AB.  Which I think is important.  

Edited April 17, 2019 by UndertheHalo

[kevinb]

Cahil and Harvey are aces. I hope Eppler can sign these guys to long term extensions before the All Star break. Can't wait for the playoffs this year. It is almost a guarantee.

[GrittyVeterans]

1 hour ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

This will be a good team next year, or even by late this year. When Adell replaces Calhoun, and we add a couple of our pitching prospects to the rotation along with Ohtani we'll be looking a lot better. The big question is who plays third and who splits time at first.

Catcher is a huge issue as well. Lucroy is utter garbage and so is Smith. We have no catching prospects to speak of (maybe Kruger?). This needs to be addressed

[eligrba]

27 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Cahil and Harvey are aces. I hope Eppler can sign these guys to long term extensions before the All Star break. Can't wait for the playoffs this year. It is almost a guarantee.

Forgot about youb and yourb perspectives.

 

[kevinb]

26 minutes ago, eligrba said:

Forgot about youb and yourb perspectives.

 

I am glad to be of service. eLiGrBa

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, UndertheHalo said:

I don’t know man, you know more about this then I do.  So I’ll defer to you about it.  I just have a ton of trouble getting around the offense.  I see the opposite as you.  I think that we have pitchers that we can work with.  And I think the line up is irredeemable.  Anyway.    Hopefully they can hang in there until they get healthier.  So far so good with that I guess.  

I'm guessing like anyone else.  

 

[Angelsjunky]

Things are really no different than they were during the offseason, in terms of what we know about the near and long-term future of the team. There are no quick and easy solutions - only a gradual maturation of prospects, coupled with savvy free agent signings and/or trades. 

I suppose we can say that Eppler's offseason acquisitions are a mixed to negative bunch so far, but it is still early enough that we shoudn't panic. 

That said, the Angels are 8-9 and there are more areas that should regress positively than negatively, so this team should improve. The bullpen looks good and potentially great; the lineup can only get better; and the rotation should also improve, if only because Heaney will be back and Canning looks ready, not to mention Suarez at some point.

 

[Glen]

It's not an exaggeration to say we need an entire starting rotation.  Skaggs and Heaney are question marks at best.

[Chuck]

#Angels starting pitchers ERA Trevor Cahill: 5.47 Matt Harvey: 9.64 Chris Stratton: 7.00 Felix Pena: 4.15 Tyler Skaggs: 4.20 Jaime Barria: 5.87 Closer: Cody Allen, 4.91 #gross

[Quinlanforthewin]

On 4/16/2019 at 8:10 PM, Dochalo said:

then you're wrong.  

second worst WAR so far of -0.2.  5th worst era, FIP and xFIP.  4th worst k/9.  6th worst hr/9.  2nd highest LD rate.  

as bad as you might think the offense is, they're 20th in baseball by WAR and have the lowest BABIP by 20 points.  (meaning they're experiencing some horrendous luck).  

the offense is going to be fine.  

the starting pitching?  good luck.  

 

Still don't see how the offense is going to be anything other than average, which isn't "fine" in my book

Eppler brought in 3 guys to be starters this year and they're all awful. Not sure what else he needs to fail at until we all start blaming him at least a little bit for the state of this franchise. 

[Jay]

Suddenly now everybody knows the starting rotation is crap.

 

[Quinlanforthewin]

5 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

#Angels starting pitchers ERA Trevor Cahill: 5.47 Matt Harvey: 9.64 Chris Stratton: 7.00 Felix Pena: 4.15 Tyler Skaggs: 4.20 Jaime Barria: 5.87 Closer: Cody Allen, 4.91 #gross

So how do we not blame the GM for this...I really don't understand what's going on around here