Shohei Ohtani Has New UCL Damage

[Homebrewer]

The "medical and conditioning" (LOL) staff should all be fired today, top to bottom. Spend the off season building a new group. It can't possibly get any worse, and it has to get better.

[AngelsFaninGA]

Lol. Barria, Canning, and Suarez should just go ahead and get the surgery this offseason too so that we can be ready to compete in 2020. 

[Barrett]

Just now, mulwin444 said:

Better now or Spring 2019?

Who cares. Same result Ohtani is done pitching and probably won't be very good the first year he comes back from pitching. Who knows with the hitting, this is literally new territory for a hitter. I don't know of very many players other than pitchers getting Tommy John surgery. Just bad news all around for the Angels. Medical staff and their training staff is basically worthless. I remember years ago with Kendrys Morales, the fucked up his stuff so bad, Boras was going to murder the front office. Shoemaker who the hell knows what happened there, but it took 2 years. Every pitcher is either dehydrated or some other excuse. Just makes me sick to see Ohtani go down like this. Hell I called it on Richards when he came into spring training throwing 100 plus miles per hour. It is just par for the course. 

[Angel Oracle]

Just now, Barrett said:

Who cares. Same result Ohtani is done pitching and probably won't be very good the first year he comes back from pitching. Who knows with the hitting, this is literally new territory for a hitter. I don't know of very many players other than pitchers getting Tommy John surgery. Just bad news all around for the Angels. Medical staff and their training staff is basically worthless. I remember years ago with Kendrys Morales, the fucked up his stuff so bad, Boras was going to murder the front office. Shoemaker who the hell knows what happened there, but it took 2 years. Every pitcher is either dehydrated or some other excuse. Just makes me sick to see Ohtani go down like this. Hell I called it on Richards when he came into spring training throwing 100 plus miles per hour. It is just par for the course. 

Definitely some truth to this, although TJS necessity has become a league wide epidemic.

As mentioned, better to test him now, then in ST.   At least now he has a chance to return to pitching by ST 2020, while DH'ing about 120 games throughout 2019.

New plan of attack for Pujols: 40 DH starts and 40 1B starts in both 2019 and 2020, and then retirement and collect remaining $30 million in 2021 while starting personal services portion of his career...could still be a valuable part-time player in those two seasons.   Then give the other 120 1B starts to either Thaiss or Walsh.  

[tomsred]

15 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

I'm sorry but I did laugh.  He is medically cleared to pitch. He comes out and throws 49 pitches and now needs surgery.  So, dumb ass doctors or what?  It seems like our medical staff went to school in van parked behind a 7 Eleven.

It was not as dumb as just throwing 49 pitches, he threw quite a few more than that getting ready to pitch in bullpen sessions, simulated prep work against hitters, etc.  He probably threw at least a couple of hundred.

I know we are all frustrated by this news, but to blame it on the medical staff is kind of stupid.  But if it helps the venting process, go for it.

[hangin n wangin]

1 minute ago, Taylor said:

beatlesrule and barrett think Shohei should have had Tommy John in June. That way he'd be on track to return (as a pitcher) in December of 2019, rather than March of 2019. Genious!

Lol to the bolded.

Anyway, the Angels did make the right move to see if his arm would stay attached even though I think everyone knew it wouldn't. I think the main annoyance here is the Angels medical staff. The "finger" and "dehydration" shit is so annoying, only to come out it's TJS. 

I don't get it personally, but maybe there is an explanation for it. But the Angels organization has lacked competence lately, no doubt about it.

 

[Inside Pitch]

Best bad news ever.   

Had this not happened now the situation becomes Garret Richards part two....  a wait for the inevitable while pinning their hopes on a balky elbow not blowing up.   No thanks, the last two years were enough of that bullshit.

The offseason focus is clearer than ever.  Now they need to figure out if he'll be able to DH or not and if not.... Find a 1Bman

 

[YouthofToday]

Tanaka has pitched with a similar injury for years. Attacking the medical staff here without details is such an Internet thing to do.

Ideally this forces the Angels hand to dump TheAlbertross, freeing up DH for Ohtani next year. 

[Barrett]

1 minute ago, Angel Oracle said:

Definitely some truth to this, although TJS necessity has become a league wide epidemic.

As mentioned, better to test him now, then in ST.   At least now he has a chance to return to pitching by ST 2020, while DH'ing about 120 games throughout 2019.

New plan of attack for Pujols: 40 DH starts and 40 1B starts in both 2019 and 2020, and then retirement and collect remaining $30 million in 2021 while starting personal services portion of his career...could still be a valuable part-time player in those two seasons.   Then give the other 120 1B starts to either Thaiss or Walsh.  

New plan of attack is if Ohtani can hit and hit with out limitations. Pujols is done. He can either play 1st place or he will not be playing. Ohtani presents 10000% more upside than Pujols has. His playing career here is over. If the Mike or the new manager play Pujols 1 day over Ohtani it should be a fire able offense. 

[Angel Oracle]

6 minutes ago, YouthofToday said:

Tanaka has pitched with a similar injury for years. Attacking the medical staff here without details is such an Internet thing to do.

Ideally this forces the Angels hand to dump TheAlbertross, freeing up DH for Ohtani next year. 

Tanaka is the only one who has made it through the injections, without needing TJS, and even he hasn't been that great.    Time to discard the injections, until they can be proven to actually work? 

Note: I kind of expected this to happen, given Shohei's high velocity/heavy use of splitters and the almost total lack of success stories from the injections.  

[tomsred]

6 minutes ago, YouthofToday said:

Tanaka has pitched with a similar injury for years. Attacking the medical staff here without details is such an Internet thing to do.

Ideally this forces the Angels hand to dump TheAlbertross, freeing up DH for Ohtani next year. 

What it also does is move up on the list of priorities signing a #1or #2 starting pitcher who is durable.  It is better to know that now rather then later.  Gives us a full shot to find one this off season.  September is not turning out to be a wasted month, the team is getting questions answered so that corrective actions can be initiated.

[red321]

about as surprising as looking at the box score and seeing Bedrosian shit the bed

[Inside Pitch]

Looks like Ohtani is in the lineup tonight.

[Tank]

all along this has felt like an inevitability, so it's not surprising - disappointing, but not surprising.

better to have it happen now instead of next spring. my only question is whether or not he'll be physicall able/allowed to hit. that's a big unknown right now. i'm sure part of it depends on when he has the surgery and then how his rehab goes. won't surprise me at all if he doesn't play till june or something.

[Angel Oracle]

When will the Halos luck with pitchers finally change??????????????????????????

[Docwaukee]

How does Ohtani giving it a shot change anything?  

[Angelsjunky]

I believe TJ recovery is typically six months from the knife to being able to hit, so if he gets the surgery in October he could be ready close to Opening Day, or maybe by May. Alternately he could get the surgery now as the Angels are out of the playoff race and be ready for ST.

As some have suggested, this is almost a blessing in disguise - at least that it happened now vs. in ST. We also get more Ohtani the hitter next year, which will be fun. I could see him getting 120-130 starts at DH, assuming he's healthy.

Not good news for Albert.

[2020worldseries]

Carl Crawford TJ surgery August 23rd 2012

Played April 1st 2013

 

I expect Ohtani to be able to hit  all of 2019.......

[tomsred]

6 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Looks like Ohtani is in the lineup tonight.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Tank said:

all along this has felt like an inevitability, so it's not surprising - disappointing, but not surprising.

better to have it happen now instead of next spring. my only question is whether or not he'll be physicall able/allowed to hit. that's a big unknown right now. i'm sure part of it depends on when he has the surgery and then how his rehab goes. won't surprise me at all if he doesn't play till june or something.

The silver lining is that if he can hit effectively he might be just as valuable to the Angels in 2019.  This year he has less than half of the AB's compared to Trout, and if you double his home run and RBI totals he would surpass Trout in those categories.  Get the surgery done, and get ready for a full year of hitting, I like it.

[BackUpTheTruck]

I could totally see a platoon next year at first base between Pujols and Fernandez, Walsh, or Thaiss.

[hangin n wangin]

1 minute ago, BackUpTheTruck said:

I could totally see a platoon next year at first base between Pujols and Fernandez, Walsh, or Thaiss.

[Angel Oracle]

Just as long as Pujols doesn't exceed 80 starts in either 2019 or 2020, the Halos will have a better chance of succeeding.  Time to ease him into retirement, as he turns 39 in 2019.   And, at this point, he is best used as a part-time player.   He's going to get paid the same whether playing 80 games or 120 games or zero games.   He better hit better vs lefties, than he did this season.

[tomsred]

2 minutes ago, 2020worldseries said:

Carl Crawford TJ surgery August 23rd 2012

Played April 1st 2013

 

I expect Ohtani to be able to hit  all of 2019.......

Nothing is a slam dunk in any surgery, no matter how routine it has become these days.  I wouldn't expect anything for sure.

[Pujols4MVP]

Will he ever be durable as a pitcher ?  This is like Brandon Morrow type durability(Who btw was drafted by the Angels in 2003 but did not sign, clearly the Angels know how to find guys who's arms keep falling off).

I hate to say it but given the Angels luck, he might spend as much time on the DL like the Angels next manager Eric Chavez.

When you consider potential money being lost in the future if he continues to get hurt, at some point he has to consider his health & focus on learning a position on the field.

[eligrba4ever]

Oh well. Que sera, sera.

Billy Epp is supposed to speak about it soon in Arlington on MLB Network.