North Korea leader tells military to be ready to use nuclear weapons at any time

[red321]

Well, it's a good thing our dear leader had decided now is the time to show full support for South Korea...cough...

[mtangelsfan]

8 minutes ago, red321 said:

Well, it's a good thing our dear leader had decided now is the time to show full support for South Korea...cough...

Please, as much as you would love to put this on Trump you cannot be serious.  That would be completely irrational.

[UndertheHalo]

Not the greatest timing for Trump and the free trade talk.  But yea, this is not a Trump issue.  It's been a slow burn shit show for a long time.

I've never read any NK commentator that thought the North Korean regime had reunification as a serious priority.  They talk all kinds of shit, and reunification is obviously provacative scary talk.  What they want is recognition and international legitimacy. 

Edited September 3, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[gotbeer]

2 hours ago, fan_since79 said:

"Yes, Dear Leader, this is our new hydrogen bomb. We can put on missile and deliver to America. Only problem is, we have only one and they have 1,400. Request permission to ramp up production."

 

 

That's the crossroads we are at now.  They have the capability for a H Bomb.  Do you wait till they mass produce them and then have no other options?  Or strike now while you can. 

Because at this point.  If they complete another H bomb, all they have to do is get a big slingshot and Seoul is wiped off the face of the earth.  They already showed they can launch an ICBM over Japan.  Do we wait till they show they can splash an ICBM off the coast of Catalina before we decide they are a threat? 

[UndertheHalo]

3 hours ago, gotbeer said:

 

That's the crossroads we are at now.  They have the capability for a H Bomb.  Do you wait till they mass produce them and then have no other options?  Or strike now while you can. 

Because at this point.  If they complete another H bomb, all they have to do is get a big slingshot and Seoul is wiped off the face of the earth.  They already showed they can launch an ICBM over Japan.  Do we wait till they show they can splash an ICBM off the coast of Catalina before we decide they are a threat? 

They can wipe Seoul off the face of the earth right now.  Without nukes. 

Edited September 3, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[Brandon]

let's just cut to the chase and send someone in that can fully verify their weapon stock and how many actual weapons they have.

[red321]

3 hours ago, mtangelsfan said:

Please, as much as you would love to put this on Trump you cannot be serious.  That would be completely irrational.

I'm not blaming trump for North Korea per se. Though I certainly think he's handled it poorly and has made the situation worse  

But I certainly find it circumspect that at the same time we have this crisis, and one of our biggest allies in the region is under dire threat...that's probably not the best time to suggest we are going to cancel a massive trade deal or suggest it needs to be significantly renegotiated. From a certain angle that could almost seem like blackmail or a protection racket. 

 

[Thomas]

9 minutes ago, red321 said:

I'm not blaming trump for North Korea per se. Though I certainly think he's handled it poorly and has made the situation worse  

But I certainly find it circumspect that at the same time we have this crisis, and one of our biggest allies in the region is under dire threat...that's probably not the best time to suggest we are going to cancel a massive trade deal or suggest it needs to be significantly renegotiated. From a certain angle that could almost seem like blackmail or a protection racket. 

That kind of chicanery happens all the time, especially by us. But yeah usually not so publicly. 

[fan_since79]

4 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

They can wipe Seoul off the face of the earth right now.  Without nukes. 

Yep. All that artillery on the border. I've seen estimates of 8,000-13,000. They could unleash a devastating attack in just a few minutes' time.

 

Edited September 4, 2017 by fan_since79

[UndertheHalo]

The existence of a shitty regime that we don't like in North Korea does not justify risking massive war.  the North Koreans correctly calculated that war is not an option for us, or our allies.  Anything other then a negotiated final settlement is insanity.  We stand to lose far more then the North Koreans.  Its never been a winnable situation and now the game is up.  We can't fuck with them if they can lob nukes at the west coast.

Edited September 4, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[fan_since79]

I sort of agree, but blackmail usually is open-ended, and that's what we're seeing here. They'll just keep building up their arsenal and we'll just keep appeasing them with 'deals' until they have a few hundred nuclear-tipped ICBM's. At that point we're totally screwed.

 

[Jason]

At what point should a preemptive strike be the prudent thing to do?

[UndertheHalo]

23 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

I sort of agree, but blackmail usually is open-ended, and that's what we're seeing here. They'll just keep building up their arsenal and we'll just keep appeasing them with 'deals' until they have a few hundred nuclear-tipped ICBM's. At that point we're totally screwed.

 

I think if they stop feeling existentially threatened (justified), they may no longer feel compelled to devoting the entirety of their national resources to military conflict.  The only thing that's clear with them is the desire for the regimes survival.  I guess the question is whether we believe they will continue down the path they are on if they get the legitimacy they claim to want. Presumably not.  If we do have a settlement though and they continue to be highly antagonistic.  Well, then at that point we will know that conflict is unavoidable.  I'm not sure how much worse off we would really be.  For example, it seems unlikely to me that there would be quiet for 5 or 10 years and then suddenly, they'd go back to threatening nuclear war with a large stash of ICBM nukes that they've mass produced.  Integrating them into the global order suddenly gives them a lot to lose as well.

Edited September 4, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[mtangelsfan]

20 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I think if they stop feeling existentially threatened (justified), they may no longer feel compelled to devoting the entirety of their national resources to military conflict.  The only thing that's clear with them is the desire for the regimes survival.  I guess the question is whether we believe they will continue down the path they are on if they get the legitimacy they claim to want. Presumably not.  If we do have a settlement though and they continue to be highly antagonistic.  Well, then at that point we will know that conflict is unavoidable.  I'm not sure how much worse off we would really be.  For example, it seems unlikely to me that there would be quiet for 5 or 10 years and then suddenly, they'd go back to threatening nuclear war with a large stash of ICBM nukes that they've mass produced.  Integrating them into the global order suddenly gives them a lot to lose as well.

This is where you lose me.  We have had deals and settlements with them numerous times and they keep breaking their word and have become increasingly antagonistic.

[UndertheHalo]

4 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

This is where you lose me.  We have had deals and settlements with them numerous times and they keep breaking their word and have become increasingly antagonistic.

Not really man.  We've had "you can have some food imported" deals.  That's it.  There's never been any real effort to end the existing technically at war status quo. 

Consider it this way.  what deal have we ever made with them that would be more valuable to them then having the capability to threaten us with nukes.  The correct answer is absolutely none. 

Edited September 4, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[mtangelsfan]

36 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Not really man.  We've had "you can have some food imported" deals.  That's it.  There's never been any real effort to end the existing technically at war status quo. 

Consider it this way.  what deal have we ever made with them that would be more valuable to them then having the capability to threaten us with nukes.  The correct answer is absolutely none. 

Why should we be blackmailed?  The entire world has agreed that they should not be doing this.  Why should we give credence to a regime who has some of the worst human rights in the world.  You think they will be better if they are legitimized?

[UndertheHalo]

7 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

Why should we be blackmailed?  The entire world has agreed that they should not be doing this.  Why should we give credence to a regime who has some of the worst human rights in the world.  You think they will be better if they are legitimized?

I think that we don't have any other choice.   If we could stop them without a million people being killed I'd be all for it.  I'm not even convinced that if there was war China would stay out of it.  Historically they have not.  It's simply not something we can allow to happen.  From what we know, a permanent peace would do much to satisfy the North Koreans.   

Edited September 4, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[Thomas]

I not really worried about NK reacting to an external threat assuming that all the countries on the periphery act sanely. The threat of almost otherworldly military retaliation should keep NK on the straight and narrow. I worry about perceived threats from inside the country. If the regime feels that their rule has escaped their grasp will they commit to an act of unimaginable of suicidal glory to ensure their place in history?  What happens if the outside world begins to see this take place? What is the right course of action then? When the options are terrible or worse than terrible?

[mtangelsfan]

1 hour ago, UndertheHalo said:

I think that we don't have any other choice.   If we could stop them without a million people being killed I'd be all for it.  I'm not even convinced that if there was war China would stay out of it.  Historically they have not.  It's simply not something we can allow to happen.  From what we know, a permanent peace would do much to satisfy the North Koreans.   

Permanent peace with them is an illusion 

[UndertheHalo]

3 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

Permanent peace with them is an illusion 

Perhaps. But we don't know that.  The alternative right now is unthinkable. 

[Amazing Larry]

Here's an idea: Let Japan and South Korea worry about it. 

[Tank]

31 minutes ago, LHalo said:

Here's an idea: Let Japan and South Korea worry about it. 

they've threatened us as well, and quite specifically. what should we do?

[gotbeer]

39 minutes ago, LHalo said:

Here's an idea: Let Japan and South Korea worry about it. 

If it wasn't for Japan's constitution, they would. 

[Tank]

this one's such a difficult situation. what options are available? and what can be done to avoid war?

part of me wants to just nuke this guy and be done with him. part of me wants to keep letting him just rant like a little child, realizing that he's not terribly likely to do anything as he has everything to lose and nothing to win.

i really have no idea what the best option is, but i know i want to avoid war as much as possible, and i want my POTUS to shut up and stop using social media to make the situation worse.

[arch stanton]

We all know that North Korea is dirt poor and backward but even they have a governing elite who have access to cable news. They've seen what happens when absolute dictators like Saddam and Qaddafi lost even an inkling of their power. They probably aren't looking forward to having their faces on decks of playing cards as troops ravage their country.

For the past 6 decades their relationship with China and the thousands of warheads they have pointed directly at Seoul and other South Korean cities has given them a sense of security while the 35,000 round eyed devils just across their border gave them something to rally for their cause. Lately that balance has started to shift.

The introduction of the THAAD system and the stepping up of the joint exercises has them (for obvious reasons)and China (because these satellites can spy on them) a little antsy. So now the only thing they feel can give them back their threat of assured mutual annihilation is nukes. For North Korea this is their October, 1962. The only solution I see is negotiating a pullout of the THAAD system in return for them backing off the nukes. Stay tuned while a megalomaniac reality tv has been works his magic on the crisis