Breaking: Eppard and Picciolo let go - Scioscia and Dipoto staying

[stormngt]

Wow...you really are something. Of course they've had slow starts the last 4 years. The fat lard in the dugout allows them to dick around in spring training I've heard.

 

Wow, you guys are trying make up facts.

 

Our slow starts have only hurt us the last two seasons.  Being tied for 1 or one game back on May 1 IS NOT A SLOW START.

 

I know you two want SOSH fired.  There maybe some good logic to it, but please quit making up facts! Its insulting for those who want intelligent conversation.

[stormngt]

Didn't say giving up. Said not paying for tickets, gear, etc. I never said giving up on posting and paying attention. Plus I never said Mike gone I said either Mike or Dipoto gone or both.

 

Since when has 500 or one game over 500 been considered a slow start?

 

Is everyone "good team" supposed to come out and win ten straight?

[stormngt]

I believe both were slow starts based on how they played the rest of those seasons. Hell I would almost concede this year wasn't a slow start because they played pretty poorly the rest of the year.

 

The definition of a slow start is "based on how the played the rest of the season"?

 

I don't get that.  How does one's play the whole season help define how they played at the beginning?

[Inside Pitch]

Isn't this what Spring Training is for?

 

 

Only in a fantasyland where every team is playing its starting 25 in ST....   In most cases teams start do that for a week.  It's pretty hard to gauge how well someone on your roster is doing when they are facing some 28 year old AA scrub for three innings.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Inside Pitch

[Lifetime]

I think Scioscia is a top manager if he has the right roster.  JD/Arte really didn't build a roster he excels with.

 

If you look back, when he was dominating his pantherian projections, it was with scrappy teams, lots of switch hitters and lots of guys that he could platoon.  He of course had one or two moto guys in each roster but the rosters were very different.

 

It is probably a mix of players and Scioscia but these teams just don't seem to be as passionate and happy as other teams.  Of course winning usually helps with that, but everything just looks and feels stale.

The difference has been the quality of the overall pitching staff not the make-up/style of the rest of the roster. I don't care who the manager/coaches are, this team will not make the playoffs again unless the pitching situation is addressed.

 

I don't buy the passionate argument either. Winning teams appear more passionate. Losing teams appear less passionate. It's perception not reality. We saw a different team demeanor when they went on a roll in August. More fire and enthusiasm, building on their success. It's the nature of the beast.

[nate]

Scioscia was very lucky to have Scot Shields, Percy, Donkey, etc.  Some of the starting rotations were pretty bad, including the WS team.  That rotation was very mediocre.

[SoWhat]

30 pages lol

[Inside Pitch]

Good point Brian, but should a manager be fired based on the sum of his work or just two months? Also, that's a pretty small disparity of 9 games which could be discarded based on his total record. We all hear that each part of the season is equal so if he's say, 200-140 in July, from a potential estimation of our play versus NL clubs, shouldn't that also be taken into consideration?

 

Havinjg been an Angels fan for a long time, I'd rather see the team finish strong than crap out after the ASB like they were famous for doing through most of the 90s.   The memory of 95, 96, 97, 98 are all still very vivid.   As is September of 99 when they went something like 19-11 after Captain Hard Ass, Terry Collins got fired and the team was actually able to play baseball without having to worry about being shamed to death by the manager and his henchmen.

 

Not saying I wouldn't like to see them play well in April, that would be stupid..  But those 90s teams with their hard charging, win at all costs ways of the mid to late 90s were awful to root for.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Inside Pitch

[Lifetime]

Scioscia was very lucky to have Scot Shields, Percy, Donkey, etc.  Some of the starting rotations were pretty bad, including the WS team.  That rotation was very mediocre.

The rotation was decent not great, but the overall pitching staff was very well put together. The hasn't been the case for a few years now.

[Torridd]

I would say what's been constant over the last 4 years has been the bad relief.

[yk9001]

You obviously haven't been reading the post.  The Angels did not have a slow start in 2010 and 2011.

 

Now I can't say anything for 2012 and 13.

 

You can define slow starts a lot of different ways.  They were 22-23 on May 19th in 2011.  They were 30-35 on June 10.  That sounds like a slow start to me.

[stormngt]

Scioscia was very lucky to have Scot Shields, Percy, Donkey, etc.  Some of the starting rotations were pretty bad, including the WS team.  That rotation was very mediocre.

 

Its amazing what a good bull pen can do in making a manager look good.

 

When was the last time we had a good bullpen?

 

See any correlation?  Causation?

[stormngt]

You can define slow starts a lot of different ways.  They were 22-23 on May 19th in 2011.  They were 30-35 on June 10.  That sounds like a slow start to me.

I can pick out twenty or thirty games where every team goes into a slump.  The question is how well you play the entire season.

 

30-35 a slow start?  Are your really saying measuring a team after 75 games still equates a start?

[ten ocho recon scout]

@nate,

Lifetime already kind of made my point. But I think sosh gets too much credit for winning with scrappy small ball teams.

In 2002 people say we won w small ball, but if you look at that roster we also had a ton of power (and a shut down pen). We had an offense that was a swiss army knife, who could back an average pitching staff long enough to get to an elite bullpen.

We then assembled a very good front end pitching staff (still w a great bullpen), that had a decent offense WITH vlad. Vlad was one of those rare hitters that was great overall, and delivered when needed (blargs rbi point being a perfect example).

What we lacked the last few years is a great pitching stafg (10-11) but mediocre offense. Then a pretty great offense with mediocre pitching.

I'm on the replace sosh side. But had we gotten an arm instead of hamilton (and weaver and vargas being healthy), we win upper 80's, maybe 90 games this year. Had we gotten an impact bat in 2010 instead of haren, we push for the wild card (IMO).

Pujols is horrible in hindsight, but at the time I think moreno was done watching great pitching teams come up short due to no true elite hitter (once vlad left).

[Scott34]

Who the hell cares when they get their wins?

 

Bottom line: 4 years no playoffs.  One decent team (2012)

[Lifetime]

So apparently you don't. Thanks for clarifying. 

[m0nkey]

No, I shall be the last one to comment

[FireThemAll]

So apparently you don't. Thanks for clarifying. 

 

So you agree that Scioscia should be fired for not making the playoffs the last 4 years?

 

Glad to see you finally concede the argument

 

 

Thank you LT

[mtangelsfan]

Fire them all = Brian

[Lifetime]

So you agree that Scioscia should be fired for not making the playoffs the last 4 years?

 

Glad to see you finally concede the argument

 

 

Thank you 

Logical fail

[Troll Daddy]

Scioscia isn't getting fired but a trade could still be made after the playoffs ... don't ask me how I know.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Troll Daddy

[AngelsAndRamsFan]

Scioscia not getting fired but a trade could be still made after the playoffs ... don't ask me how I know.

Lol

[Angel Oracle]

One small correction to what you said Scout, otherwise, in agreement

The 2002 team finished outside the upper half in HRs, and thus wasn't hugely HR oriented. 

But they were XBH oriented including being near the top in doubles with 333 (GA's club record 56).

Their AL leading .282 BA also helped greatly, as they only walked some 460 times.

Frenzy hitting, good defense, great year from Wash and solid year from Ortiz and solid rookie year by Lackey, and great bullpen work were the keys.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Angel Oracle

[ten ocho recon scout]

Good point AO. To be fair I'd have to compare to some of the huge roid teams of that era (for context). But figure GA, Fish, Glaus, Fullmer, that's a strong MOTO. Throw in speez batting 7th and that was an additional (top of my head) 17 home runs.

We did in fact manufacture a lot. And AK, eck and erstad did play small ball. But while the media focused on that, how we were 'anti moneyball', people overlook how our moto all had pop and good OBP.

We were underdogs being that we didn't have big names like most of the other teams. But I think the offense that year was very strong.

Weaver is declining (which is just nature taking its course). Wilson is solid but for how much longer?

But take those two, retain vargas, hopefully get tanaka and he works out....that, two bully arms and our offense, and I think were back in it next year.maybe not enough to dominate and win it all, but hopefully enough to get us back to october, and gives us a window to develop a farm and focus on winning it all with trout in 2015/6.

[kevinb]

I can pick out twenty or thirty games where every team goes into a slump.  The question is how well you play the entire season.

 

30-35 a slow start?  Are your really saying measuring a team after 75 games still equates a start?

Aww the its early comment rears its ugly head. Being below 500 or at 500 is a slow start no matter how you slice it. Whether its a month or two months or 3 months into the season. They should have a winning record. Being satisfied with a below 500 record in the first 2 months of the season is and should be viewed as a failure and a slow start.