Breaking: Eppard and Picciolo let go - Scioscia and Dipoto staying

[yk9001]

What about Alfredo Griffen?  Does he ever move up, or just stay at first base in perpetuity?

[WallyWorld]

What about Alfredo Griffen?  Does he ever move up, or just stay at first base in perpetuity?

 

well he's the defensive IF coach, and by all accounts, a pretty good one.  My guess is he likes doing it and the org likes him there.

[stormngt]

My comfort level is directly proportional to the degree of player talent that is assembled.  Take a look at the pitching staffs that are still playing and how those compare to ours.  We brought a knife to a gun fight, and many think that changing knife instructors is going to have an effect. 

 

 

Funny, you are correct.  We brought a knife to the gun fight and we want to change knife instructors.  Maybe we should change the guy who supplied us with the knife!

[stormngt]

Interesting. 

 

I believe what you're saying, but I don't think the personality traits we see publicly come with an on/off switch.  If we as fans are annoyed by his worn out cliches, and other personality traits, I'm sure the players feel the same way at some level. 

 

Speaking only for myself, if I'm frustrated and looking for advice, I'm far less likely to approach someone when I can predict what they will say in advance.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if Scioscia repeats the "turn the page" nonsense behind closed doors. 

 

This might come as a shock to you, but a manager's persona to his players is much different than the one he gives to the press and the fans!

[stormngt]

Bogar is an intriguing option. He hasn't found a managerial job, but was always a frontrunner for the ones he applied for. Everything players have said about him have always been positive like the one below

"Dustin Pedroia called Bogar a “calming voice” and Mike Aviles noted that he’d always go to Bogar with questions because “he’s one of those guys who has great communication skills.”

 

Many players liked Hatcher as well!

[mtangelsfan]

well he's the defensive IF coach, and by all accounts, a pretty good one.  My guess is he likes doing it and the org likes him there.

 

Except the defense kind of sucked this year.  So wouldn't the same people who think Butcher should be fired think Griffin should be?

[Mark68]

I prefer a aggressive hitting approach and not just looking for the walk. Walks are ok but a hit is twice as better.

Before you guys go sideways ... I'm not advocating swinging at balls out of the zone. Teaching pitch recognition is a good thing.

Btw I think the Angels had a better OBP than the A's this season.

By two percentage points, with a BA ten percentage points better (in other words, the A's made more of their non-hit plate appearances). The A's also slugged five points better.

 

The A's also scored 34 more runs.

 

The A's outdoubled the Angels by 31, outhomered the Angels by 22, and had 14 fewer triples.

 

But what might be even more telling is that the A's walked 50 more times and struck out 43 fewer times.

 

The Angels also hit into the 3rd-most double plays in MLB, while the A's were in a 4th-place tie for the fewest (44 fewer than the Angels).

 

Bottom line is that maybe Eppard needed to go, because his philosophy wasn't much different than Hatcher's.

 

The A's are in the postseason partially because they made much more of their opportunities on offense. Walks do count, especially if you're walking instead of striking out (or hitting into a double play).

Edited October 9, 2013 by Mark68

[Angel Oracle]

Whenever Arte walks onto the field in the future, they should play Michael Jackson's "Man in the Mirror".

[Ohtaniland]

You think Arte specifically asked Mike and Jerry to pick a coach each to fire?? Man, if that's true I'd really be scared for the organization.

Yes I believe they fired the only two guys that didn't make the @ngelswin top 10 fire that guy list.

They're really f'n with us aren't they!

[WallyWorld]

Alden Gonzalez â€@Alden_Gonzalez11m

Joe Girardi gets $16M over four years from #Yankees, per @JonHeymanCBS. Mike Scioscia still baseball's highest-paid manager. #Angels

 

 

Awesome.

[Jimmag]

Anyone have some popcorn?

Here you go.

[Inside Pitch]

The first five on your list are never going to be in the mix for hitting coach this upcoming season. Carew is retired, Gwynn is enjoying his time as manager in college where the kids have to listen, Erstad the same. Anderson never has made any attempt to get back into baseball and Salmon is enjoying his part time work in the pre and post game while spending a lot of time with his kids.

 

The only guy on the list that is available and has experience on the MLB level as a hitting instructor is Joyner. He left the Phillies because  they only offered him to stay on as an assistant hitting coach. He might be a good pick.

 

 

I'd have loved to see Grich given a coaching job.  Same goes with Chili Davis.  If they could find a way of prying him away from Oakland, I wish they would.   Grich and Davis have all the grit in the world and more importantly knew how to walk and hit for power.    Salmon, GA, several others have given Grich credit for pointing out flaws...

 

Both guys have Angels ties, both guys were noted, even feared competitors.   And I can't see either guy shying away from Mike Scioscia... 

Edited October 9, 2013 by Inside Pitch

[Jim]

wow.  quite a few folks around here seem to know a lot about what was going on behind the scenes in the clubhouse and front office.  It would have been interesting to hear the specifics of what actually happened as it was happening. 

 

 

No one here thought the offense massively underachieved this year?  Just because they were good doesn't mean they were as good as they should have been.  I think it's pretty clear that eppard has taken the fall for Hamilton being a wreck, Trumbo taking a step back etc.

 

All here thought the pitching staff should have performed better than they did?  I didn't see a bunch of guys underachieving, I saw a bunch of guys that lacked talent. 

 

Also, do we even know the responsibilities of the bench coach?  Maybe it was his job to give the manager information about matchups, or to process info regarding potential defensive alignments or to recommend an approach relative to info provided by advanced scouts.   It's funny how Maddon was a god and MS is worthless without him by his side yet Piccolo provided nothing.

 

Don't get me wrong, I have no freaking clue if these are the right moves, but neither does anyone else.   

It's clear to me that someone in the Angles organization with the power to hire and fire has lost their confidence in these two men to effectively carry out their jobs. I believe I can safely conclude that these decisions were agreed upon by more than one person, and probably in more than one meeting. Collective agreements as it were.

 

My speculation is that by firing the manager or the GM at this point, might just be too much of an interruption for an already failing org to handle. Arte's decision no doubt. If neither is going to go, it then becomes very necessary that both work towards the common goal. In order to do that, both will need to negotiate and concede to some of the others positions. After having a difficult time with his buddy Hatcher being fired, Mike may have given his list of untouchables to Dipoto, Butcher being at the top of the list. Dipoto wanting to mend a fractured relationship with Mike agrees to his wishes regarding Butcher and moves on. After all, he has bigger fish to fry, and by fry I mean sign.     

 

I do believe those in position of hiring and firing (Dipoto, the sabermetric guy) thought Picciolo wasn't doing his job well. As far as Eppard is concerned, it could be any number of reasons.  The reality is that we all may never know the truth about any of this.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Piccy and Eppy works for me.

But they're gone now....its too late.

(And I would have gone with P-lo)

[ten ocho recon scout]

I'm with IP. Would love to get chili over here. And I've seen grich at the games a few times, I think he is still with the org in some way.

At any rate, I think its important that whoever it is doesn't come from within (minors hitting coach). From top down we probably have the same philosophy. A new approach is in order, IMO.

[mtangelsfan]

I really like Grich and I think he could be a successful coach, but I wonder if he really wants to put the time and effort to actually do so.  He really seems to enjoy his life right now.

[Troll Daddy]

It's clear to me that someone in the Angles organization with the power to hire and fire has lost their confidence in these two men to effectively carry out their jobs. I believe I can safely conclude that these decisions were agreed upon by more than one person, and probably in more than one meeting. Collective agreements as it were.

 

My speculation is that by firing the manager or the GM at this point, might just be too much of an interruption for an already failing org to handle. Arte's decision no doubt. If neither is going to go, it then becomes very necessary that both work towards the common goal. In order to do that, both will need to negotiate and concede to some of the others positions. After having a difficult time with his buddy Hatcher being fired, Mike may have given his list of untouchables to Dipoto, Butcher being at the top of the list. Dipoto wanting to mend a fractured relationship with Mike agrees to his wishes regarding Butcher and moves on. After all, he has bigger fish to fry, and by fry I mean sign.     

 

I do believe those in position of hiring and firing (Dipoto, the sabermetric guy) thought Picciolo wasn't doing his job well. As far as Eppard is concerned, it could be any number of reasons.  The reality is that we all may never know the truth about any of this.

 

Nice post Mr. Jim ... but almost everything you said is purely speculation. There is a good chance none of what you said is true except maybe the decision to fire the bench and hitting coach was agreed on by more than one person.

 

Personally, I think that Dipoto and Scioscia are both on the same page and working in unison towards a better future for the team.

 

I still don't know what a saber metric guy is ... I think all coaches and managers take what they feel is important in various evaluation type of stats.

 

I believe keeping both Dipoto and Scioscia was in the best interest for the team next season. Kudos Arte!

[Brian Ilten]

Scioscia now has 14 seasons under his belt.  In that time the Angels regular season record in March/April is 171-180.    Only one year were the Angels greater than 4 games over .500 (2008).   The last two years the Angels have a record of 17-32 (note - these last two years there has supposedly been considerable effort to turn this around).

 

This falls on the manager for not having his team ready to play coming out of the gate.  They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. I would say that some decision maker in the Angels FO is making a case for insanity by allowing Scioscia to continue to manage.

[mtangelsfan]

This whole month argument is kind of sketchy to me.

 

I'm way too lazy to look it up, but I wonder if there aren't a bunch of managers with weird records in certain months.  Whatever, the only thing that should matter is overall record. 

 

If one wants to argue that the team's overall record for the last four seasons is bad enough to let Sosh go I would listen, but this April-May junk is silly.

[yk9001]

  They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. I would say that some decision maker in the Angels FO is making a case for insanity by allowing Scioscia to continue to manage.

 

Au Contrair Brian, they are changing it up.

 

By firing the bench coach.

[AngelsLakersFan]

Hahahaha. They kept Butcher. **** this shit. Unbelievable. You can make an argument about keeping Sosh because of his contract (which I don't agree with, he still has to go), but keeping Butcher is the dumbest shit possible. This is the worst pitching staff in baseball. Unreal. Angels will be a .500 ballclub because firing the Bench coach and hitting coach does not solve the root of the problem

 

So what you are saying is that you aren't happy because Arte didn't "FireThemAll"?

[FireThemAll]

So what you are saying is that you aren't happy because Arte didn't "FireThemAll"?

 

Precisely 

[AngelsLakersFan]

wow.  quite a few folks around here seem to know a lot about what was going on behind the scenes in the clubhouse and front office.  It would have been interesting to hear the specifics of what actually happened as it was happening. 

 

 

No one here thought the offense massively underachieved this year?  Just because they were good doesn't mean they were as good as they should have been.  I think it's pretty clear that eppard has taken the fall for Hamilton being a wreck, Trumbo taking a step back etc. 

 

All here thought the pitching staff should have performed better than they did?  I didn't see a bunch of guys underachieving, I saw a bunch of guys that lacked talent. 

 

Also, do we even know the responsibilities of the bench coach?  Maybe it was his job to give the manager information about matchups, or to process info regarding potential defensive alignments or to recommend an approach relative to info provided by advanced scouts.   It's funny how Maddon was a god and MS is worthless without him by his side yet Piccolo provided nothing.

 

Don't get me wrong, I have no freaking clue if these are the right moves, but neither does anyone else.   

 

Perhaps Eppard is taking the fall for Hamilton, and Piccolo for the Astros...

[Hollyw00d]

Santana had some damn good years under the Angels, so I don't see how you point that.  Walden had a good first year and his year with the Braves wasn't that great.  Rodney still sucks!

 

 

santana had one good season, a couple average ones and 4 mediocre to horrible ones

[tdawg87]

santana had one good season, a couple average ones and 4 mediocre to horrible ones

 

2008 and 2011 were both good years. 2010 and 2006 were above average. If he didn't completely suck ass in his other seasons he would be having a pretty damn good career.