Breaking: Eppard and Picciolo let go - Scioscia and Dipoto staying

[mtangelsfan]

Demoting somebody is kind of like breaking up with them but then saying "lets still be friends".

[T.G.]

Maybe we'll Bengie Molina as one of he hitting coaches...

[mtangelsfan]

as anology, if your investments consistenly lose money do you fire your gardener?

and what criteria is used to eveal the pitching coach if not the performance of the pitchers he coaches? all these posts about butchy was dealt a bad hand and so on are just more opinion statements.

watching weaver scream and swear at him from the mound was enough for me.

i feel sorry for anybody that pays money to watch this org in its present state.

 

I'm not saying Butcher should not be fired, but you are saying he wasn't dealt a bad hand?

[T.G.]

I listened to an interview with Leo Mazzone yesterday on mlb radio... and he was open to returning to baseball as a pitching coach somewhere... possibly Arizona to work with their young staff.

[T.G.]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseball/mlb/angels/la-sp-angels-coaches-20131009,0,159895.story?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+latimes%2Fsports%2Fbaseball%2Fmlb%2Fangels+%28L.A.+Times+-+Angels%29#axzz2hB2FqzBr

 

In addition to the third base and hitting coach jobs, Dipoto said the team probably will add two new coaches, at least one of whom is likely to assist the hitting coach.

 

Among the candidates for the third base job are double-A manager Tim Bogar, a former Boston third base coach, and roving infield instructor Omar Vizquel. Former Dodgers slugger Reggie Smith and former Angels first baseman Wally Joyner could be candidates for hitting coach.

 

Former Angels closer Troy Percival and Charles Nagy, who was fired as Arizona's pitching coach Tuesday, could be candidates for pitching-related jobs.

[T.G.]

FYI... Nagy is a former Bees pitching coach...

[Vladfan]

This thread is so interesting.......

 

[shellback]

doesn't matter what kind of hand he was dealt. pitching performance is the problem.

just because you are given an old car to work on, you can still get it running.

the whole deal with these moves is more evidence  that performance doesn't matter, we're sellin tickets to saps, and the bottom line is still intact.

the only way this circus is going to change is when idiots stop paying money to watch this mediocrity unfold year after year.

[Jobu]

A car is not a good metaphor. At all.

[AngelsFaninGA]

I'm not saying Butcher should not be fired, but you are saying he wasn't dealt a bad hand?

 

He was dealt a bad hand and, whether or not he was directly responsible for it, it became worse while he was the pitching coach. Frieri's ERA went from 2.32 to 3.80. Blanton's ERA went from 4.99 to 6.04. Hanson's ERA went from 4.48 to 5.42. Jepsen's ERA went from 3.02 to 4.50. Though Gutierrez already sucked, his ERA went from 3.38 to 5.19. Meanwhile, the only player who made any kind of meaningful improvement was De La Rosa. No one's expecting bad players to somehow magically become good, but we saw multiple players, good and bad, fail to maintain career norms and experience significant dropoff, and that could very well be a coaching issue. 

[RallyMo]

Exactly what the hell was so wrong with our offense that Eppard needed to go? It seems his firing was sacrificial in nature. The only guys that didn't hit relative to expectations were the guys that shouldn't need a freaking hitting coach in the first place, especially so because they're two of the highest paid players in the game.

 

Look, if somebody can come on board and get Pujols and Hamilton to hit, we'll be scoring a ridiculous amount of runs.

 

Our pitching is pretty awful and it's been just OK since Butcher has been the guy. I would love to see a dominant bullpen again.

[shellback]

as anology, if your investments consistenly lose money do you fire your gardener?

and what criteria is used to eveal the pitching coach if not the performance of the pitchers he coaches? all these posts about butchy was dealt a bad hand and so on are just more opinion statements.

watching weaver scream and swear at him from the mound was enough for me.

i feel sorry for anybody that pays money to watch this org in its present state.

[Torridd]

It seems to me that Arte knew people were expecting some sort of firings and these are the two he was willing to give. 

 

It is what it is.

You think Arte specifically asked Mike and Jerry to pick a coach each to fire?? Man, if that's true I'd really be scared for the organization.

[xboom28x]

The only thing this tells us fans is that after this season, if there still aren't any positive results, Arte will most likely clean house.

[T.G.]

The more I think about it the more I like what I've read... that Scioscia and Dipoto met several times to figure this thing out.  I'm buying the united front and I'm encouraged that these two are making the effort to work together. 

 

We can complain all we want - but the reality is they're coming back whether we like it or not.  I love the idea that they've found some common ground. 

[AngelsFaninGA]

The only thing this tells us fans is that after this season, if there still aren't any positive results, Arte will most likely clean house.

 

By firing the hitting coach and the equipment manager.

[mtangelsfan]

doesn't matter what kind of hand he was dealt. pitching performance is the problem.

just because you are given an old car to work on, you can still get it running.

the whole deal with these moves is more evidence  that performance doesn't matter, we're sellin tickets to saps, and the bottom line is still intact.

the only way this circus is going to change is when idiots stop paying money to watch this mediocrity unfold year after year.

 

It actually does matter.  I keep hearing about Duncan and Mazzoni, which is laughable.  Think about the staffs those guys had to coach.

 

Fix up an old car, it's still an old crappy car that is going to get 6 miles to the gallon, fail smog tests, need oil by the barrell and be an eyesore.

[Angel Dog and Beer]

Well, see everyone in 20 pages!

On #20, where are you?

[Lifetime]

LT - do you feel that Butcher has any accountability in how pitchers perform?

not much really. This pitching staff is not that good. They weren't underperforming, they just aren't that good. If you had good pitchers underperforming and not improving during the season, then you look to the coach. I don't care who the pitching coach was last year, they aren't going to turn that staff into a good pitching staff. We knew going in that the staff was suspect. Heck it was suspect last year and the additions we added were more of the same, mediocre to poor pitchers. Why would we expect to get more than we got out of them? Then add to that injuries to a couple of the pitchers that can actually pitch and it only exacerbates the issue. How is that a reflection on Butcher's abilities as a pitching coach? Why should he be held accountable for a mediocre staff when that's what he was handed? He didn't create the mess.

[Lifetime]

doesn't matter what kind of hand he was dealt. pitching performance is the problem.

just because you are given an old car to work on, you can still get it running.

the whole deal with these moves is more evidence  that performance doesn't matter, we're sellin tickets to saps, and the bottom line is still intact.

the only way this circus is going to change is when idiots stop paying money to watch this mediocrity unfold year after year.

Wow, what?

[shellback]

jmo, duncan did pretty well with what he had to work with.

mazzone was given a brand new cadillac sts and told " just keep it runnin"!

again, by what criteria can we measure a pitching coaches job if not by the performance of the pitchers he coaches?

i have worked with alot of real nice guys who don't know shit. it's who ya know, evidently, in the angels org.

[Torridd]

The more I think about it the more I like what I've read... that Scioscia and Dipoto met several times to figure this thing out.  I'm buying the united front and I'm encouraged that these two are making the effort to work together. 

 

We can complain all we want - but the reality is they're coming back whether we like it or not.  I love the idea that they've found some common ground. 

If it's true, I agree.

[shellback]

Wow, what?

wrong.

sound familiar randy?

[Lifetime]

wrong.

sound familiar randy?

completely disjointed in this case but OK

[CaliAngel]

I think mainly my issue with Butcher is, what pitcher have we either acquired or brought up through the system that improved performance once he got to work with Butcher?

 

All we've seen for the most part is decline and mediocrity. Pitchers serving it up in situations where they're asked to perform. Butcher walks out to the mound in tight situations and a pitch or two later our arm gives up a big hit to the other team, almost like they'd be better off if Butcher stayed in the freakin' dugout.

 

This has been going on for 4 years now.