Official 2022-23 Offseason Hot Stove Thread

[Warfarin]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

Fletcher for Chris Taylor and an arm. Gets the Dodgers back under the cap. 

They do likely need a SS beyond this season, and my take on that trade is they don't trust Lux to play SS.  Not sure if Fletcher would do it for them though.

Kinda wild that they went from having both Seager and Turner, to just Turner, to now .. Miguel Rojas.   Pretty steep drop.

[Chuck]

I like Chris Taylor versatility but he's no better than what we have in Rengifo/Fletcher IMO. 

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, beatlesrule said:

Rojas had a 2.5 bWAR last year. I'm having a hard time finding the Angels combined SS bWAR but I imagine it's close to that.

The Angels got 1 fWAR from SS last year and the Marlins got 2 fWAR from SS.  fWAR has Rojas at 1.2 WAR for 2022 because bWAR gave him a ton more value for his defense.  fWAR uses statcast data for it's defensive calc and I find it to be more consistent because it takes starting position of the player into account.  With the shift going away, that may even things out a bit.  

Either way, he had a stellar defensive season in 2022 yet it was an outlier to pretty much the rest of his career.  Entering his age 34 season, I wouldn't bank on that again and his bat tailed off a fair amount last year.  

Overall, he's about a 1.5 win player.   Fletcher actually has similar rate stats both offensively and defensively and there's some hope for him to show more of the bat he's had in the past.  

Point is, we essentially already have Rojas.  

 

[Warfarin]

9 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

The Angels got 1 fWAR from SS last year and the Marlins got 2 fWAR from SS.  fWAR has Rojas at 1.2 WAR for 2022 because bWAR gave him a ton more value for his defense.  fWAR uses statcast data for it's defensive calc and I find it to be more consistent because it takes starting position of the player into account.  With the shift going away, that may even things out a bit.  

Either way, he had a stellar defensive season in 2022 yet it was an outlier to pretty much the rest of his career.  Entering his age 34 season, I wouldn't bank on that again and his bat tailed off a fair amount last year.  

Overall, he's about a 1.5 win player.   Fletcher actually has similar rate stats both offensively and defensively and there's some hope for him to show more of the bat he's had in the past.  

Point is, we essentially already have Rojas.  

 

Yeah, that is basically my feeling.  We already have a good defensive SS that doesn't have much of a bat.  Rojas might be a bit superior to Fletcher defensively, but not discernibly so I think.  

For us, it would have effectively been a wash.  I think for the Dodgers, they didn't have a good defensive SS on their roster, so that is likely why they made this trade.

[Warfarin]

1 hour ago, Chuckster70 said:

I like Chris Taylor versatility but he's no better than what we have in Rengifo/Fletcher IMO. 

IMO, I think Taylor would be an upgrade over both of them for different reasons.  I think Taylor is considerably more versatile than Fletcher, and I think he is significantly better defensively than Rengifo.  The only question with Taylor that I would have is - is last year possibility the start of an offensive decline for him, or was it an aberration?

Still - even with an offensive decline, he was worth about 2 fWAR last year in 118 games.  He has been a 2-4 fWAR player for many years now.  What I like most about him is he can be shifted all over the diamond, as he plays basically every position except 1B and C.  

I saw @Stradling's trade, but my guess is they wouldn't take Fletcher.  To satisfy both team's LT desires, I would look into maybe shipping them one of Loup or Tepera in exchange for him and absorbing the remainder of his salary.  This would help keep the Angels below the LT and would keep the Dodgers below as well.

Then - I would look into packing Rengifo (since Taylor would take his role) in exchange for a cost-controlled SP.

[Erstad Grit]

An injured Rojas seems like a very strange choice for the Dodgers to go over the tax penalty with. 

[BTH]

21 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

I'd rather they chased Knebel or Moore.  I'm a bit surprised Moore hasn't been signed by someone, his statcast/savant data last year was impressive, FB was back near 94 again.  There are some guys people might label "failures" out there that had interesting underlying numbers.  

It seems like Moore has drawn a good amount of interest. May just be a matter of whittling his options down or waiting for a team to offer an extra year or more dollars.

 

[BTH]

33 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

An injured Rojas seems like a very strange choice for the Dodgers to go over the tax penalty with. 

“LA, according to source, was actually over the #233-million CBT threshold before the deal“

Edited January 12, 2023 by Trendon

[ukyah]

23 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

I'm half wondering if the Angels are eye balling Chapman right now.    

chapman would be ok, but bauer wouldn't? no way that's possible.

[beatlesrule]

4 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

The Angels got 1 fWAR from SS last year and the Marlins got 2 fWAR from SS.  fWAR has Rojas at 1.2 WAR for 2022 because bWAR gave him a ton more value for his defense.  fWAR uses statcast data for it's defensive calc and I find it to be more consistent because it takes starting position of the player into account.  With the shift going away, that may even things out a bit.  

Either way, he had a stellar defensive season in 2022 yet it was an outlier to pretty much the rest of his career.  Entering his age 34 season, I wouldn't bank on that again and his bat tailed off a fair amount last year.  

Overall, he's about a 1.5 win player.   Fletcher actually has similar rate stats both offensively and defensively and there's some hope for him to show more of the bat he's had in the past.  

Point is, we essentially already have Rojas.  

 

It was more geared towards Chuck's comment that he is meh. That means our STARTING SS is also meh or even worse than that. Rojas is there for depth though. Lux is better than Rojas and Fletcher combined. Fangraphs projects Rojas to be better than Fletcher in 2023 so hopefully they are wrong.

[ukyah]

On 1/10/2023 at 9:26 PM, angelsnationtalk said:

Anyone notice Jo Adell removed the Angels off his bio on IG? used to say "Los Angeles Angels #7" 

Now just says "Athlete".

Maybe he found out he's starting in AAA hahahahaha

 

On 1/10/2023 at 9:29 PM, Chuckster70 said:

I thought in today’s presser Perry said he’s all set with Trout, Ward, Renfroe and Phillips in the outfield? Maybe Adell took offense to that? 

 

17 hours ago, angelsnationtalk said:

He did! Adell probably did as well, but he can't be mad, he hasn't proved anything at the major league level yet. 

Honestly hope he gets traded at some point

 

just my opinion obviously, but knowing as many young people as i do, there is no f'in way he did not do that on purpose. that's a relationship status change as clear as day, to me. i'm 49. have never had social media and i can see that on even the foggiest of days. 

it's not a shock really, why should he be happy with that? he doesn't want to definitively start/stay in AAA this year, no matter how much he may need it. 

[Revad]

5 hours ago, ukyah said:

 

 

 

just my opinion obviously, but knowing as many young people as i do, there is no f'in way he did not do that on purpose. that's a relationship status change as clear as day, to me. i'm 49. have never had social media and i can see that on even the foggiest of days. 

it's not a shock really, why should he be happy with that? he doesn't want to definitively start/stay in AAA this year, no matter how much he may need it. 

It’s not a shock, but he must feel like he’s falling out of the team’s plans.  I’d be pissed too, even if I knew it was mostly my own doing.

[Chuck]

9 hours ago, beatlesrule said:

It was more geared towards Chuck's comment that he is meh. That means our STARTING SS is also meh or even worse than that. Rojas is there for depth though. Lux is better than Rojas and Fletcher combined. Fangraphs projects Rojas to be better than Fletcher in 2023 so hopefully they are wrong.

I'll bet you that Rengifo/Fletcher combined have a higher WAR and productivity than the 33-year old Miguel Rojas in 2023.

[Ender]

9 hours ago, ukyah said:

 

 

 

just my opinion obviously, but knowing as many young people as i do, there is no f'in way he did not do that on purpose. that's a relationship status change as clear as day, to me. i'm 49. have never had social media and i can see that on even the foggiest of days. 

it's not a shock really, why should he be happy with that? he doesn't want to definitively start/stay in AAA this year, no matter how much he may need it. 

Man. Jo Adell and Jared Kelenic are sooooo eerily similar. Both have had basically the same careers. Super hyped prospects. Fallen on their faces. 

Both have been through bouts of removing all mentions of their current teams on their social medias. 

Still both super young and talented .... just can't seem to put it altogether yet. 

[Revad]

3 minutes ago, Ender said:

Man. Jo Adell and Jared Kelenic are sooooo eerily similar. Both have had basically the same careers. Super hyped prospects. Fallen on their faces. 

Both have been through bouts of removing all mentions of their current teams on their social medias. 

I don’t want to be the old guy who says I don’t understand kids nowadays.  But I think they’re from a different planet.

[Revad]

My son is 18.

[Warfarin]

 

[DMVol]

10 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

 

Going to be interesting to see who jumps in and takes the PR hit to sign him....

[Angelsfan1984]

you know the Astros are going to be all over this. They are already looked at as scumbags, so why not add a cy young caliber pitcher to the mix. It wouldnt move the needle for them at all in terms of PR. 

[jsnpritchett]

7 minutes ago, DMVol said:

Going to be interesting to see who jumps in and takes the PR hit to sign him....

From the article:

"The Times reached out to 16 front-office executives, most of them team presidents and general managers, to see if they had any interest in signing Bauer, who went 8-5 with a 2.59 ERA in 17 starts with the Dodgers in 2021 but hasn’t pitched in a professional game in 19 months.

Of the 10 who responded, seven were a hard “no,” one said, “I doubt it,” and two declined to comment altogether, with one of those executives saying, “I’m not touching that topic.”

But that doesn’t necessarily mean MLB has seen the last of Bauer, who has an 83-69 career record and 3.79 ERA in 10 big league seasons and won his Cy Young Award with the Cincinnati Reds in the pandemic-shortened 2020 season.

“He’s so affordable, I wouldn’t be surprised if somebody does sign him and weathers the storm for spring training and the first two weeks of the season and then hopes it kind of dies down,” said one GM, who was granted anonymity to speak freely about the situation.

“Maybe it’s not spring training [that Bauer signs], maybe it’s May 1 or June 1, maybe it’s more strategically timed for a team to get out of spring training and avoid the early noise, but I’ll be surprised if he doesn’t play again.”

[Inside Pitch]

13 hours ago, Trendon said:

It seems like Moore has drawn a good amount of interest. May just be a matter of whittling his options down or waiting for a team to offer an extra year or more dollars.

Moore really made a case for himself having remade himself as a legit BP weapon.  At his age he's smart to try to get as much as he can for as long as he can.  Granted, he's a lefty and those guys hang on forever but given how his career went off the rails once -- I'm sure he's looking to get paid.

[tdawg87]

We all lookin to get paid

[Taylor]

1 hour ago, jsnpritchett said:

From the article:

"The Times reached out to 16 front-office executives, most of them team presidents and general managers, to see if they had any interest in signing Bauer, who went 8-5 with a 2.59 ERA in 17 starts with the Dodgers in 2021 but hasn’t pitched in a professional game in 19 months.

Of the 10 who responded, seven were a hard “no,” one said, “I doubt it,” and two declined to comment altogether, with one of those executives saying, “I’m not touching that topic.”

But that doesn’t necessarily mean MLB has seen the last of Bauer, who has an 83-69 career record and 3.79 ERA in 10 big league seasons and won his Cy Young Award with the Cincinnati Reds in the pandemic-shortened 2020 season.

“He’s so affordable, I wouldn’t be surprised if somebody does sign him and weathers the storm for spring training and the first two weeks of the season and then hopes it kind of dies down,” said one GM, who was granted anonymity to speak freely about the situation.

“Maybe it’s not spring training [that Bauer signs], maybe it’s May 1 or June 1, maybe it’s more strategically timed for a team to get out of spring training and avoid the early noise, but I’ll be surprised if he doesn’t play again.”

But

[EdmontonAngelsFan]

 

[tdawg87]

Did Britton have TJ surgery or something?