Angels option Barria and Rodriguez, activate Quintana, recall Quijada

[eligrba]

[mmc]

 

[eligrba]

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

It took a full day to determine that Quijada was being called up?

Maddon was taking a nap.

[tdawg87]

11 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

This is you talking about his change up.   In this post "he needs to learn one."   It's actually been his best pitch throughout his career so, this statement makes it seem you're unaware of his repertoire or rather, unfamiliar with his strengths and weaknesses.

This is you after several people mentioned it's actually his best pitch arguing he can't control it, and they he's constantly piping the pitch -- I'm guessing the assumption is that he's throwing a meatball when he does??   But let's move on.

This is you arguing he lacks control and that may be why he isn't throwing it...  but he's piping them remember.  Also, you seem to think a 22 year old rookie that had not pitched above A ball prior to this season has the carte blanche to decide his game-plan.

This is you double or tripling down on the lack of control of his best pitch.

This is you, after making several references to his not having control of the pitch now saying you know it's not meant to be a strike ... 
 
This is me trying to follow along.   You're all over the place.   

I'm going to try to make clear what my point was when I first responded...  But first -- a study of Chris Rodriguez and pitch selection post IL stint.

First game back.

22 pitches, 1 change-up.   Called ball.

Second game back...

16 pitches, 1 change up -- it was swung on and fouled off.

Third game back

15 pitches, 0 change ups.

Fourth game back

14 pitches, 0 change ups.

Final game before demotion

21 pitches, 1 change up.   Ball.

So... Since coming back.   88 pitches thrown, 3 change ups.  THREE.  Only one of which was swung on and it was fouled off. 

3.4% of his pitches have been change-ups... ZERO of them hurt him.   

So my point... 

He doesn't need to learn one. He's not having trouble with it.  He's not piping it when he does throw it.  The problem is he's NOT been throwing his best pitch and their usage of him isn't allowing him to actually USE or DEVELOP it, because you don't throw a pitch that drops like a 12/6 curve but tends to not be a strike when you're missing with your sinker and curveball.  Maybe you have been mistaking his change for his curve because of the movement -- but the facts simply don't support your POV.

I think the more important thing is you see the potential, and believe he simply needs to tap into it -- so, we agree there... but our logic getting there is based on very different views of the the same problem.   Hopefully now that he's in AA, he will start throwing those other pitches, learn how to set guys up more.  I'd almost wish they would find a veteran minor league game caller to pair with him and Detmers in AA because that kid's stuff has also been playing up.

Anyway...  There was a lot of interesting insight coming from Gubi his last game out; he talked up his slider, and his change, specifically his change.  He's obviously seen him throwing it in bullpen sessions or on the side, he's aware of what a wipeout pitch it is and if anything it sounded like was lamenting the fact that he wasn't being used in a way where he could.  It's a ridiculously good pitch.

CRod's change is vicious because of it's movement, not because of a change in velocity is the plane it's thrown at.  Thing is, it's a pitch that he needs to throw, and he's not been doing that pitching once every four days for 1 inning at a time and even less so when he's been failing to throw strikes with his sinker and curve.

 

You are one sadistic fuck.

[Revad]

Good but we need him awake by the fourth inning to make pitching changes

Edited June 22, 2021 by Revad

[Revad]

31 minutes ago, eligrba said:

Maddon was taking a nap.

Good but we need him awake by the fourth inning to go the bullpen.

[Revad]

Where’s the f-ing pitching?

[failos]

Two Qunts

[Mark PT]

42 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

This is you talking about his change up.   In this post "he needs to learn one."   It's actually been his best pitch throughout his career so, this statement makes it seem you're unaware of his repertoire or rather, unfamiliar with his strengths and weaknesses.

This is you after several people mentioned it's actually his best pitch arguing he can't control it, and they he's constantly piping the pitch -- I'm guessing the assumption is that he's throwing a meatball when he does??   But let's move on.

This is you arguing he lacks control and that may be why he isn't throwing it...  but he's piping them remember.  Also, you seem to think a 22 year old rookie that had not pitched above A ball prior to this season has the carte blanche to decide his game-plan.

This is you double or tripling down on the lack of control of his best pitch.

This is you, after making several references to his not having control of the pitch now saying you know it's not meant to be a strike ... 
 
This is me trying to follow along.   You're all over the place.   

I'm going to try to make clear what my point was when I first responded...  But first -- a study of Chris Rodriguez and pitch selection post IL stint.

First game back.

22 pitches, 1 change-up.   Called ball.

Second game back...

16 pitches, 1 change up -- it was swung on and fouled off.

Third game back

15 pitches, 0 change ups.

Fourth game back

14 pitches, 0 change ups.

Final game before demotion

21 pitches, 1 change up.   Ball.

So... Since coming back.   88 pitches thrown, 3 change ups.  THREE.  Only one of which was swung on and it was fouled off. 

3.4% of his pitches have been change-ups... ZERO of them hurt him.   

So my point... 

He doesn't need to learn one. He's not having trouble with it.  He's not piping it when he does throw it.  The problem is he's NOT been throwing his best pitch and their usage of him isn't allowing him to actually USE or DEVELOP it, because you don't throw a pitch that drops like a 12/6 curve but tends to not be a strike when you're missing with your sinker and curveball.  Maybe you have been mistaking his change for his curve because of the movement -- but the facts simply don't support your POV.

I think the more important thing is you see the potential, and believe he simply needs to tap into it -- so, we agree there... but our logic getting there is based on very different views of the the same problem.   Hopefully now that he's in AA, he will start throwing those other pitches, learn how to set guys up more.  I'd almost wish they would find a veteran minor league game caller to pair with him and Detmers in AA because that kid's stuff has also been playing up.

Anyway...  There was a lot of interesting insight coming from Gubi his last game out; he talked up his slider, and his change, specifically his change.  He's obviously seen him throwing it in bullpen sessions or on the side, he's aware of what a wipeout pitch it is and if anything it sounded like was lamenting the fact that he wasn't being used in a way where he could.  It's a ridiculously good pitch.

CRod's change is vicious because of it's movement, not because of a change in velocity is the plane it's thrown at.  Thing is, it's a pitch that he needs to throw, and he's not been doing that pitching once every four days for 1 inning at a time and even less so when he's been failing to throw strikes with his sinker and curve.

 

That's going the distance to try to prove someone wrong, was it that important? Look I realize that by change up, I should have said off-speed. Either way he lacks control of his pitches (and strike total out of total pitches thrown wont show you what I mean). He misses his spots. He tries to hit corners and misses. He is forced to come over the middle. HIs change was only thrown 3 times (per your research), if this is his best pitch, why is he only throwing it 3 times. Look, I really think this kid has tools and potential to be Ace-like but he cant control his pitches well enough currently.

 

By learn one, that does not mean he cant throw it or make it move, it means he cant throw it effectively in the zone. With this in mind, now the "he's piping them" in light of he cant control it makes sense. I like the insight from Gubicza that you mentioned, and it is a testament to how good he can be. He has at least three "wipeout pitches" that I have seen but cant use them in too many occasions. 

[Inside Pitch]

17 hours ago, Mark PT said:

That's going the distance to try to prove someone wrong, was it that important? Look I realize that by change up, I should have said off-speed. Either way he lacks control of his pitches (and strike total out of total pitches thrown wont show you what I mean). He misses his spots. He tries to hit corners and misses. He is forced to come over the middle. HIs change was only thrown 3 times (per your research), if this is his best pitch, why is he only throwing it 3 times. Look, I really think this kid has tools and potential to be Ace-like but he cant control his pitches well enough currently.

 

By learn one, that does not mean he cant throw it or make it move, it means he cant throw it effectively in the zone. With this in mind, now the "he's piping them" in light of he cant control it makes sense. I like the insight from Gubicza that you mentioned, and it is a testament to how good he can be. He has at least three "wipeout pitches" that I have seen but cant use them in too many occasions. 

Asks me if it was that important to prove him wrong.  Continues to argue he's not by redefining all previous statements to try to save face after he's shown to be talking out both sides of his mouth and out his posterior.  But its important to me, right? Physician heal thyself.   

I'm glad he's in AA and will get to develop.  

[Second Base]

AAA is where you send pitchers that you want to keep but not reserve a roster spot for.  AA is where you send pitchers to develop.  

That's why Rodriguez and Detmers are in AA, and why Barria is in AAA. 

[Stradling]

On 6/21/2021 at 12:37 PM, Chuckster70 said:

Guys do you think since there's an opening on the roster that Detmers gets the call since his start has aligned with Bundy's yesterday? 

 

 

On 6/21/2021 at 12:42 PM, Stradling said:

I don’t think so. Probably a Quijada type move. 

I agree

[Inside Pitch]

I have argued all year that Quintana has been better than the numbers and that he's been the defense's biggest victim but... Dude's been completely unable to hit his spots all year.  The one thing he's legit been awful at is command.... So, he's going to the pen? I get it, they want to maybe salvage some value, but if they have lost confidence in his ability to start, cut bait already.  I know they have nothing to lose really but ...sunk cost man.

Now watch him do the RP version of Upton as a leadoff hitter.  

[Inside Pitch]

53 minutes ago, failos said:

Two Qunts

One cup....

[WicketMaiden]

So, C.Rod and his change-up... can he throw it or not?

One word answers only please. 

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, WicketMaiden said:

So, C.Rod and his change-up... can he throw it or not?

One word answers only please. 

Here’s my one word answer: 

if@IPsaysHEcanThenHeProbablyCan

[ten ocho recon scout]

16 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

This is you talking about his change up.   In this post "he needs to learn one."   It's actually been his best pitch throughout his career so, this statement makes it seem you're unaware of his repertoire or rather, unfamiliar with his strengths and weaknesses.

This is you after several people mentioned it's actually his best pitch arguing he can't control it, and that he's constantly piping the pitch -- I'm guessing the assumption is that he's throwing a meatball when he does??   But let's move on.

This is you arguing he lacks control and that may be why he isn't throwing it...  but he's piping them remember.  Also, you seem to think a 22 year old rookie that had not pitched above A ball prior to this season has the carte blanche to decide his game-plan.

This is you double or tripling down on the lack of control of his best pitch.

This is you, after making several references to his not having control of the pitch now saying you know it's not meant to be a strike ... 
 
This is me trying to follow along.   You're all over the place.   

I'm going to try to make clear what my point was when I first responded...  But first -- a study of Chris Rodriguez and pitch selection post IL stint.

First game back.

22 pitches, 1 change-up.   Called ball.

Second game back...

16 pitches, 1 change up -- it was swung on and fouled off.

Third game back

15 pitches, 0 change ups.

Fourth game back

14 pitches, 0 change ups.

Final game before demotion

21 pitches, 1 change up.   Ball.

So... Since coming back.   88 pitches thrown, 3 change ups.  THREE.  Only one of which was swung on and it was fouled off. 

3.4% of his pitches have been change-ups... ZERO of them hurt him.   

So my point... 

He doesn't need to learn one. He's not having trouble with it.  He's not piping it when he does throw it.  The problem is he's NOT been throwing his best pitch and their usage of him isn't allowing him to actually USE or DEVELOP it, because you don't throw a pitch that drops like a 12/6 curve but tends to not be a strike when you're missing with your sinker and curveball.  Maybe you have been mistaking his change for his curve because of the movement -- but the facts simply don't support your POV.

I think the more important thing is you see the potential, and believe he simply needs to tap into it -- so, we agree there... but our logic getting there is based on very different views of the the same problem.   Hopefully now that he's in AA, he will start throwing those other pitches, learn how to set guys up more.  I'd almost wish they would find a veteran minor league game caller to pair with him and Detmers in AA because that kid's stuff has also been playing up.

Anyway...  There was a lot of interesting insight coming from Gubi his last game out; he talked up his slider, and his change, specifically his change.  He's obviously seen him throwing it in bullpen sessions or on the side, he's aware of what a wipeout pitch it is and if anything it sounded like was lamenting the fact that he wasn't being used in a way where he could.  It's a ridiculously good pitch.

CRod's change is vicious because of it's movement, not because of a change in velocity is the plane it's thrown at.  Thing is, it's a pitch that he needs to throw, and he's not been doing that pitching once every four days for 1 inning at a time and even less so when he's been failing to throw strikes with his sinker and curve.

 

 

[Vlad27Trout27]

I guess people need to know a little bit of a report on Rodriguez;

He throws four pitches

1. Sinker/Fastball (65 grade pitch)

2. Curve-ball (65 grade pitch with the upside of a 70 grade pitch))

3. Slider (60 grade pitch)

4. Change (60 grade, with the upside to be a 70 grade pitch)

He has four-plus to even plus pitches, His command/control his solid where he can starter. As a Bp Arm he's has only thrown two Main pitches, the Sinker/fastball and curve. Once he moves in the Rotation, you see better results on his other pitches as he will throw them more. 

[Angelsjunky]

16 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

I have argued all year that Quintana has been better than the numbers and that he's been the defense's biggest victim but... Dude's been completely unable to hit his spots all year.  The one thing he's legit been awful at is command.... So, he's going to the pen? I get it, they want to maybe salvage some value, but if they have lost confidence in his ability to start, cut bait already.  I know they have nothing to lose really but ...sunk cost man.

Now watch him do the RP version of Upton as a leadoff hitter.  

Yeah, that's thinking too. I hope its not just wishful thinking, though. At the least, it would be nice if Quintana could come back and pitch well enough to be tradable. 

[Inside Pitch]

16 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Now watch him do the RP version of Upton as a leadoff hitter.  

First time out, 1 IP, K's the side.   

Mariano Quintana.

[Inside Pitch]

3 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Yeah, that's thinking too. I hope its not just wishful thinking, though. At the least, it would be nice if Quintana could come back and pitch well enough to be tradable. 

I probably jinxed him but, YES...

[Mark PT]

21 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Asks me if it was that important to prove him wrong.  Continues to argue he's not by redefining all previous statements to try to save face after he's shown to be talking out both sides of his mouth and out his posterior.  But its important to me, right? Physician heal thyself.   

I'm glad he's in AA and will get to develop.  

Brother I dont need to save face, but if it boosts your ego, fine. I clarified my points. But you still seemed to take issue with everything I said. Take a breather, its just baseball talk. If you proved me wrong about CR, cool. But I redefined my points to see if you could, which is good as I will learn something. But you being insulted by what I have said, which you obviously are, is a joke. 

[Mark PT]

4 hours ago, Vlad27Trout27 said:

I guess people need to know a little bit of a report on Rodriguez;

He throws four pitches

1. Sinker/Fastball (65 grade pitch)

2. Curve-ball (65 grade pitch with the upside of a 70 grade pitch))

3. Slider (60 grade pitch)

4. Change (60 grade, with the upside to be a 70 grade pitch)

He has four-plus to even plus pitches, His command/control his solid where he can starter. As a Bp Arm he's has only thrown two Main pitches, the Sinker/fastball and curve. Once he moves in the Rotation, you see better results on his other pitches as he will throw them more. 

What do you mean by grade pitches? Is that out of 100?

[Inside Pitch]

16 minutes ago, Mark PT said:

Brother I dont need to save face, but if it boosts your ego, fine. I clarified my points. But you still seemed to take issue with everything I said. Take a breather, its just baseball talk. If you proved me wrong about CR, cool. But I redefined my points to see if you could, which is good as I will learn something. But you being insulted by what I have said, which you obviously are, is a joke. 

Hilarious.  

My ego?  Insulted? Lol...  Your projection defense mechanism is your issue, not mine.  

Look, you not having a clue what you were talking about doesn't impact me in any way shape or form, but when you continue to try to argue your position when none of the facts support it, I'll do exactly what I did...  point out the facts as they are readily available for anyone looking for real information to see for themselves.  It's a public forum, not a private two way conversation and while you'd love to make this about you and I, I'm talking about Chris Rodriguez and what he can and cannot do.  Unlike yourself, I'm not so caught up in my own BS and opinion that when faced with facts I bury my head in the sand only to re-emerge later with a new spin on a bad take.  

Again, physician heal thyself -- at the very least, take your own advice and take a deep breath -- it's just baseball.

14 minutes ago, Mark PT said:

What do you mean by grade pitches? Is that out of 100?

Not sure if this was meant to be funny, or you really don't know but scouts grades tend to run from 20-80.   80s are almost unheard of, 70s are guys like Vladi Jr for hitters.  I can't remember the last legit 80 grade pitcher but guys like Syndergaard came close with his FB.

[Stradling]

13 minutes ago, Mark PT said:

What do you mean by grade pitches? Is that out of 100?

No it is a 20-80 scale