Pujols

[Claude]

Just now, Dochalo said:

what's our record with Trout?  

dumb.  

Trout has nothing to do with this discussion. 

[Docwaukee]

Just now, Calzone 2 said:

Trout has nothing to do with this discussion. 

nor does a team's record during one player's tenure.  

[Stradling]

The level of stupid is pretty incredible. 

[Claude]

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

The level of stupid is pretty incredible. 

The level of stupid started with signing him. He did not improve the franchise. He didn’t get the Angels on ESPN. He did not increase our playoff chances. He was a bad gamble. The apologist don’t know where to hide.

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, Calzone 2 said:

The level of stupid started with signing him. He did not improve the franchise. He didn’t get the Angels on ESPN. He did not increase our playoff chances. He was a bad gamble. The apologist don’t know where to hide.

But the assholes are right out in the open.  If I’m an apologist please let me know when I have ever hid, thanks.  

[fan_since79]

11 minutes ago, Calzone 2 said:

The level of stupid started with signing him. He did not improve the franchise. He didn’t get the Angels on ESPN. He did not increase our playoff chances. He was a bad gamble. The apologist don’t know where to hide.

I don't know about stupid, but the Cardinals were pretty damn smart to let him go.

[ten ocho recon scout]

13 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

I don't know about stupid, but the Cardinals were pretty damn smart to let him go.

Very true. But to be fair, they tried to keep him... they more dodged a bullet than were smarter than everyone else.

[fan_since79]

1 minute ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Very true. But to be fair, they tried to keep him... they more dodged a bullet than were smarter than everyone else.

As I recall, they low balled him, figuring he would get a better offer elsewhere. That way they looked like they tried.

[Troll Daddy]

Pujols leads the team in RBI’s ... Trout doesn’t count 

[Docwaukee]

25 minutes ago, Calzone 2 said:

The level of stupid started with signing him. He did not improve the franchise. He didn’t get the Angels on ESPN. He did not increase our playoff chances. He was a bad gamble. The apologist don’t know where to hide.

people aren't denying that but you displaying our record with him here is an absurd correlation.  

[Inside Pitch]

6 hours ago, Stradling said:

The level of stupid is pretty incredible. 

Looking forward to a future where gun ownership and message board posting rights both require mental health screening.

[Claude]

8 hours ago, Dochalo said:

people aren't denying that but you displaying our record with him here is an absurd correlation.  

Well my point is that we signed him to a $254M contract and he never really moved the needle for the franchise. He wasn’t a difference maker like they hyped him to be. 

[DCAngelsFan]

1 minute ago, Calzone 2 said:

Well my point is that we signed him to a $254M contract and he never really moved the needle for the franchise. He wasn’t a difference maker like they hyped him to be. 

A lot of people have pointed to the television rights package Arte got after signing Pujols, that he was able to get those numbers by virtue of having Pujols on the roster, and so his contract was more than  "paid-for."  That it wasn't a "baseball" move, it was a PR move.  

With Trout's emergence, he might've done just as well or better waiting a year or two.

I thought at the time the signs of his decline were obvious - St. Louis knew it - they didn't want to disrespect him but they didn't want a boat anchor contract, either - they should probably send Arte a gift basket every winter meeting for bailing them out of a bad PR situation.

I figured we'd get a couple of good years, a couple of 'meh' years, and then 5 years of hating him and his contract more and more.  That it was a bad signing unless we made the World Series in those first couple of years.  

I think most saw it as some variation of the above.  

[yk9001]

38 minutes ago, DCAngelsFan said:

A lot of people have pointed to the television rights package Arte got after signing Pujols, that he was able to get those numbers by virtue of having Pujols on the roster, and so his contract was more than  "paid-for." 

lol "a lot of people"

 

 

[DCAngelsFan]

 

 

 

 

19 minutes ago, yk9001 said:

lol "a lot of people"

 

 

Yes, a *lot* of people, made that argument at the time and in subsequent years.  

I don't agree since the new deal was apparently agreed to (but not announced) before the Pujols signing - If anything, it's backwards - Arte could afford to sign Pujols 'cause he already had that sweet tv deal in his pocket - Pujols signing was enabled by the new tv deal, not vice-versa - but it's a popular argument in some quarters (even if I believe it's a fallacy.)

 

[Blarg]

https://www.latimes.com/sports/la-xpm-2011-dec-08-la-sp-angels-fox-tv-20111209-story.html

Albert Pujols, C.J. Wilson deals enabled by TV revenue

With a combination of shrewd business sense and fantastic timing, Angels owner Arte Moreno parlayed an escape clause in his television contract into the billions that enabled his team to sign Pujols and C.J. Wilson on Thursday, for almost twice what Moreno paid to buy the team.

The Angels have agreed to a new deal with Fox Sports worth at least $3 billion and expected to cover 20 years, two parties familiar with the deal said Thursday. 

 

Now, you guys want to quit flapping your gums about this?

[totdprods]

Setting aside all other stats and value for a moment, it’s still impressive to me that he’s still been a 30/100 guy per 162 played since joining the Angels.

Obviously, some years injury shortened, and regression across the board elsewhere, but he’s never really strayed from that steady 30/100 pace.

[Troll Daddy]

2 hours ago, Calzone 2 said:

Well my point is that we signed him to a $254M contract and he never really moved the needle for the franchise. He wasn’t a difference maker like they hyped him to be. 

Let’s not forget season 2014 

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

30 minutes ago, Blarg said:

https://www.latimes.com/sports/la-xpm-2011-dec-08-la-sp-angels-fox-tv-20111209-story.html

Albert Pujols, C.J. Wilson deals enabled by TV revenue

With a combination of shrewd business sense and fantastic timing, Angels owner Arte Moreno parlayed an escape clause in his television contract into the billions that enabled his team to sign Pujols and C.J. Wilson on Thursday, for almost twice what Moreno paid to buy the team.

The Angels have agreed to a new deal with Fox Sports worth at least $3 billion and expected to cover 20 years, two parties familiar with the deal said Thursday. 

 

Now, you guys want to quit flapping your gums about this?

CJ Wilson doesn't get the credit he's apparently due.

Joking aside according to Sportrac the 2019 adjusted team salary is 1.7% higher than the 2012 adjusted team salary.  The 2016 adjusted salary which was the highest since the TV deal was signed was 11% higher than 2012 while some years since the deal the adjusted team salary has been less than it was in 2012.  The biggest beneficiary of the TV deal seems to have been Arte but frankly there's nothing wrong with that.  

[Claude]

2 minutes ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

CJ Wilson doesn't get the credit he's apparently due.

Joking aside according to Sportrac the 2019 adjusted team salary is 1.7% higher than the 2012 adjusted team salary.  The 2016 adjusted salary which was the highest since the TV deal was signed was 11% higher than 2012 while some years since the deal the adjusted team salary has been less than it was in 2012.  The biggest beneficiary of the TV deal seems to have been Arte but frankly there's nothing wrong with that.  

 “billions that enabled” his team to sign Pujols and C.J. Wilson.

So what came first, the chicken or the egg?

[Blarg]

Obviously Canadians don't know how to use a link and read an article.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

23 hours ago, yk9001 said:

He has a -0.1 WAR this year.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/pujolal01.shtml

Jesus, the lengths you guys go to convince yourselves.....

SUMMARY WAR

2019    0.2

Career   100.1

[Taylor]

Pujols is definitely this team's biggest problem. The way he causes our starting pitchers to give up home runs and only last until the 4th inning is really hurting the team.

[Angel Oracle]

24 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

SUMMARY WAR

2019    0.2

Career   100.1

Yep

The hitting is better than it's been since 2016.   

The defense?     Was last night's last play a microcosm of why he should not play more than 2 games/week at 1B in 2020?   

The confusing part is that his OPS while playing 1B in 2019 is near .800.   Solid enough offense, but how much of that does he give back with his 1B defense?  

[Docwaukee]

3 hours ago, Calzone 2 said:

Well my point is that we signed him to a $254M contract and he never really moved the needle for the franchise. He wasn’t a difference maker like they hyped him to be. 

then write that instead of some trollish non sequitur