2018 Hot Stove League

[Stradling]

The Angels aren’t tanking.  To pretend they are is just dumb.  Are they going all in, nope, are they tanking, absolutely not.  

[Blarg]

Who is saying the Angels are tanking?

[Stradling]

29 minutes ago, floplag said:

Im not suggesting i like the plan at all, but i think Heyman said it best, at least the Reds, Padres, and a couple others are actually trying to do something. 
3/4 of the league appears content to tank, those who we would think should be able to compete financially (like the Angels)  either actually cant or wont, the result is that the game has been reduced to a 3-4 team league and Houston's window is closing fast as they wont be able to retain most of the talent due to costs in all likelihood.
Basically if your not a NY/Bos/Dog fan, its not a lot of fun these days.   

Unless I am misunderstanding this, which I guess is possible, but it reads like the Angels are part of the 3/4 of teams content to tank.  

[floplag]

9 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Unless I am misunderstanding this, which I guess is possible, but it reads like the Angels are part of the 3/4 of teams content to tank.  

You misunderstand.  The highlighted sentence includes us in the part under those we would expect to be able to compete financially yet we appear to not be able to reach those levels if you believe the chatter. 
 

[Stradling]

My bad.  

[VariousCrap]

42 minutes ago, Stradling said:

The Angels aren’t tanking.  To pretend they are is just dumb.  Are they going all in, nope, are they tanking, absolutely not.  

I agree.  To say the Angels are tanking the 2019 season is BS.  They are playing it smart this year because 2020+ is when all that youth should start making an impact at the MLB level.

[floplag]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

My bad.  

All good no worries.
Just to be clear ive never felt aside from a random moment of frustration that this team under Arte has ever done anything remotely similar to tanking. 

[UndertheHalo]

So what’s the plan if 2021 and 2022 roll around and they haven’t been able to use the farm to fill as many spots as we’re all hoping ?

Its a fair question.  Hopefully not one we have to worry about in those years.   As of right now though, we’re all hoping for an awful lot from like 6 or 7 prospects. 

[Angelsfan1984]

19 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

So what’s the plan if 2021 and 2022 roll around and they haven’t been able to use the farm to fill as many spots as we’re all hoping ?

Its a fair question.  Hopefully not one we have to worry about in those years.   As of right now though, we’re all hoping for an awful lot from like 6 or 7 prospects. 

Well considering Trout will be in his first year in a phillies uniform and pujols will look like Lt Dan, I think they'll be in pretty good shape.

[eligrba]

17 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

Well considering Trout will be in his first year in a phillies uniform and pujols will look like Lt Dan, I think they'll be in pretty good shape.

Trout and Harper together will be awesome.  Can hardly wait. 

[krAbs]

41 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

So what’s the plan if 2021 and 2022 roll around and they haven’t been able to use the farm to fill as many spots as we’re all hoping ?

Its a fair question.  Hopefully not one we have to worry about in those years.   As of right now though, we’re all hoping for an awful lot from like 6 or 7 prospects. 

IMO, this is why its been kind of frustrating to watch the team in the last few years. It feels like every big prospect we've had has fizzled out, and every big signing we have made has not panned out. Its like...if you can't build the team via prospects, and you can't build it via signings...what exactly is the plan? At a certain point, the FO just needs to be better at spotting talent.

[Stradling]

36 minutes ago, krAbs said:

IMO, this is why its been kind of frustrating to watch the team in the last few years. It feels like every big prospect we've had has fizzled out, and every big signing we have made has not panned out. Its like...if you can't build the team via prospects, and you can't build it via signings...what exactly is the plan? At a certain point, the FO just needs to be better at spotting talent.

Well the new regime has drafted Adell with the 10th pick and less than two years later he is a top 10 prospect.  The new regime has traded for Simmons and he has been nothing but outstanding and it wouldn’t surprise me if he has the highest WAR for a SS since 2016.  The new Regime traded nothing and got a very good left fielder and then extended his contract an extra year and bringing down the annual cost.  They have traded Cron and brought back a borderline top 100 prospect and someone I think a lot of people on here expect to be our starting 2nd baseman at some point this year.  They have moved an outfielder to 2nd base to maximize his potential.  They have moved a catcher to 3rd base and saw his offensive production sky rocket.  This regime has also convinced the highest regarded international prospect, perhaps ever, to sign with the team, for less money.   In three years they have taken one of the worst farm systems ever and turned it into a top 10-12 farm system in baseball.  

My point in all of that is comparing what other front offices have done even with the same team is as meaningless.  

[happybat4]

Jenrry Mejía signed a minor league deal with the Red Sox. I was hoping the Angels would take a flyer on him.

[Hubs]

45 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Well the new regime has drafted Adell with the 10th pick and less than two years later he is a top 10 prospect.  The new regime has traded for Simmons and he has been nothing but outstanding and it wouldn’t surprise me if he has the highest WAR for a SS since 2016.  The new Regime traded nothing and got a very good left fielder and then extended his contract an extra year and bringing down the annual cost.  They have traded Cron and brought back a borderline top 100 prospect and someone I think a lot of people on here expect to be our starting 2nd baseman at some point this year.  They have moved an outfielder to 2nd base to maximize his potential.  They have moved a catcher to 3rd base and saw his offensive production sky rocket.  This regime has also convinced the highest regarded international prospect, perhaps ever, to sign with the team, for less money.   In three years they have taken one of the worst farm systems ever and turned it into a top 10-12 farm system in baseball.  

My point in all of that is comparing what other front offices have done even with the same team is as meaningless.  

The only other SS I can think of that have started for the same club for three years are Carlos Correa, Corey Seager, Didi Gregorius, Trevor Story, Xander Bogarts, Francisco Lindor, Elvis Andrus.

Jean Segura has been with two teams.

It looks to me like Simmons is #1. By bWar, he's the highest, with Segura & Correa the other top three SS. Bogarts, Story, Lindor and Seager are next.

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, krAbs said:

IMO, this is why its been kind of frustrating to watch the team in the last few years. It feels like every big prospect we've had has fizzled out, and every big signing we have made has not panned out. Its like...if you can't build the team via prospects, and you can't build it via signings...what exactly is the plan? At a certain point, the FO just needs to be better at spotting talent.

We havent had a big prospect since Trout...    None of the people who were responsible for the draft failures since then are around anymore.  At some point people need to look at the situation now and not what it used to be.

[m0nkey]

1 hour ago, happybat4 said:

Jenrry Mejía signed a minor league deal with the Red Sox. I was hoping the Angels would take a flyer on him.

 

[DMVol]

2 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

We havent had a big prospect since Trout...    None of the people who were responsible for the draft failures since then are around anymore.  At some point people need to look at the situation now and not what it used to be.

Newcomb was a pretty good prospect.....but not elite....

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, DMVol said:

Newcomb was a pretty good prospect.....but not elite....

And the new guy traded him for an elite SS

[ten ocho recon scout]

11 hours ago, Blarg said:

Who is saying the Angels are tanking?

Nobody. Those guys eat all kids of meat.

 

Edit. They apparently dont eat pizza, though.

[ten ocho recon scout]

7 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

So what’s the plan if 2021 and 2022 roll around and they haven’t been able to use the farm to fill as many spots as we’re all hoping ?

Its a fair question.  Hopefully not one we have to worry about in those years.   As of right now though, we’re all hoping for an awful lot from like 6 or 7 prospects. 

This is a very legitimate point. Its a gamble, for sure. But the other gamble (signing a bunch of top FAs) is the more expensive one.

Im in the camp that id love to see us go stupid and sign harper. But i also get why were not. At any rate, if the kids arent as good as we hope in 2021, at least we will have a better payroll situation by then.

[Docwaukee]

4 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

So what’s the plan if 2021 and 2022 roll around and they haven’t been able to use the farm to fill as many spots as we’re all hoping ?

Its a fair question.  Hopefully not one we have to worry about in those years.   As of right now though, we’re all hoping for an awful lot from like 6 or 7 prospects. 

It's depends on how many and whether Trout is still with the team.  Or Simmons.  Or Skaggs.  

But lets start with position players.  

Let's say that RF (Adell), 2b (one of Fletcher, Jones, Rengifo) and then one of Marsh, Ward, Thaiss, Herm or someone else takes another spot.  We've got Upton, Trout, Simmons, Ohtani so that leaves 2 lineup spots to fill at C and either one of 3b/1b/LF.  

Pitching?

We've got enough to fill the pen through that time easily.  Otherwise Epper will do Eppler things.  Not worried there.  

SP - We've got Barria, Canning, Suarez, and Heaney (through 2021).  Skaggs could be brought back.  Heaney could also be extended.  Let's say Skaggs and Heaney are still around, Barria is our #4, and Canning is a middle of the rotation starter by then.  3 years from now, there are about 7 or 8 pitchers in our system that could break into the rotation.  Let's two random guy and say they're a #3 and a #5.  I'll go with Sandoval as the #5.  Soriano, Hernandez or Bradish in there otherwise.  

So hypothetically we'd need to spend money or prospects on a C, two of 1b/3b/LF, and a front line starter.  By that point you can probably get away with borderline holes at C and maybe even somewhere else. 

If what you're really asking is what happens if no prospects work out then we're essentially screwed.  It happens to some teams where a rebuild just doesn't take.  Then you go through another 5 year cycle of trying to get more prospects.  If Trout is still with the team at that point, my guess is that we'd probably shove in at some point by trading away as much of the farm as possible and pushing payroll to the max in order to create a 2-3 year window.  

Best case scenario is that Ward, Thaiss, Rengifo, Adell, Canning, Suarez, and Sandoval work out in the next two years.  In addition, we get some meaningful contribution  from unexpected places like Kruger developing into an everyday catcher and a you arm or two making huge leaps and showing ace level stuff.   

[Chuck]

Busier Feb & March than Nov & Dec in terms of signings & trades?

[Tank]

jarrod saltlamachia (sp?) announced his retirement today. 

[Lou]

3 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

Busier Feb & March than Nov & Dec in terms of signings & trades?

I'd be interested to hear how many of the 102 remaining free agents have received offers. 

[NJHalo]

4 hours ago, Tank said:

jarrod saltlamachia (sp?) announced his retirement today. 

Just found out last summer that both my kids had his brother as a teacher in middle school. Never gave a shit what “Mr. S” real name was. Oh well.