LA Times: Angels unlikely to make Jason Vargas a qualifying offer; to pursue pitching via trade

[ettin]

Mass hysteria! Enough! I get the point!

[HaloFan85]

This means Arte really doesn't want to go over the luxury tax.

 

I believe they are at about $163M, right now, and that doesn't include their 1/30th share which is supposed to go up from about $10.8M in 2013.  If you assume a minimal increase up to $12M, that would put them at about $175M.  A qualifying offer to Vargas would then put them at or slightly over the threshold limit of $189M and would make it that much harder to find cheap major league ready talent via trade or FA'cy while not increasing payroll at the same time.

 

This is why I think they should look to move Aybar, Kendrick, and Iannetta for their pitching needs before anyone else.

[Brandon]

I don't know. Even if Pujols bounces back some, which I am relatively optimistic about at least for the next few years, that contract is looking like a nightmare.

And even if Hamilton bounces back as well, that is still a hefty contract, and he looks even more like a luxury item they splurged on when they had bigger needs now than he did 11 months ago.

The fact that this team is apparently so close to their payroll ceiling that they can't make a qualifying offer to a free agent they could use next year(and at least get a nifty draft pick) without ****ing everything up while still being so fatally flawed is pretty damning when it comes to the competence of those in power with this team, both past and present.

I've had my fill of Pujols/Hamilton discussions for the year, even though I mentioned them I didn't expect to talk about them. I'll just say good post as I don't want to expound on either player and mostly agree with your position.

My original post was that it's not as easy as people are making it out to be. Halo85 has the right idea as to why.

[tdawg87]

Do you get taxed the minute your payroll goes over the limit or is it only once the season starts? If it's the latter, give Vargas a qualifying offer assuming he isn't going to sign it and if he does, then you make some trades to get under the tax. Either way they are likely to trade guys like Kendrick and Trumbo, and maybe even Iannetta.

Either way, I'd love to have Vargas back as the number 4. I definitely wouldn't go more than 3/27 though.

[nate]

This means Arte really doesn't want to go over the luxury tax.

I believe they are at about $163M, right now, and that doesn't include their 1/30th share which is supposed to go up from about $10.8M in 2013. If you assume a minimal increase up to $12M, that would put them at about $175M. A qualifying offer to Vargas would then put them at or slightly over the threshold limit of $189M and would make it that much harder to find cheap major league ready talent via trade or FA'cy while not increasing payroll at the same time.

This is why I think they should look to move Aybar, Kendrick, and Iannetta for their pitching needs before anyone else.

Actually this doesn't mean anything. They said the same things last season and the season before. This is just beat writers turning in a weekly column.

I doubt Arte wants to go over the luxury tax though. Just for the mere fact that the team has sucked and needs more than a small fix. At this point spending a lot of money doesn't really mean success.

I do think it is odd not to offer Vargas a QO. Seems like he would probably turn it down and it would be hard to find pitching of his quality for less.

[nate]

Do you get taxed the minute your payroll goes over the limit or is it only once the season starts? If it's the latter, give Vargas a qualifying offer assuming he isn't going to sign it and if he does, then you make some trades to get under the tax. Either way they are likely to trade guys like Kendrick and Trumbo, and maybe even Iannetta.

Either way, I'd love to have Vargas back as the number 4. I definitely wouldn't go more than 3/27 though.

It goes by their payroll on a certain date near the start of the season.

[tomsred]

"It's not your money."

"You don't know how much money Arte has."

 

Folks, the chickens have come home to roost.  Wells, Pujols, Hamilton, and Blanton are indeed affecting the team's ability to improve (or perhaps even to tread water).  If/when we lose Vargas and don't even get a draft pick in return, then this is a strong indication that this team has no future for the next handful of years.  We might as well blow the whole thing up and trade Weaver, Wilson, and anyone of value in order to build up the farm system. 

 

I even think Trout should be dealt in 2-3 seasons because what is the point in keeping him around?  Sure, having him makes this an 81-81 team instead of 71-91, but I'm not going to put my heart and soul into a team that tops out at 81 games if everything goes right. 

 

Nuke this sick dog ASAP if we can't pay Vargas for one season.

I have it on good authority that Everling is really Vargas' mother.

[m0nkey]

The shit has hit the fan.

What would happen if shit really hit the fan?

[nate]

Pretty disgusting splatter

[mtangelsfan]

A couple of things.  First the fan would break.  Then it would smell really bad for a bit.

[tdawg87]

mt is right. I know from firsthand experience.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Retarded if true.

But I'm of the same thinking as Nate. Are these rumors based on actual statements or speculation?

I fully believe arte doesn't 'want' to go over the luxury tax. But I also think he knows he 'has' to. Every year we hear we're broke. The pujols year especially. But we KNOW now about the media deal (which kicks in next year I think). And a month ago arte was saying he can afford to build his own stadium.

I think the focus will be on trades, with the 'big splash' being on a front end starter (termed loosely). I think we're in on tanaka, just not too sure we get him based on everyone in on him.

I could be totally wrong. But under moreno we've almost always spent. And we've always been suprised when we did. Many sucked (wells, hamilton etc), but there was also vlad, pujols (results aside) etc.

Right now its more news worthy and 'safe' to bet on doom and gloom than to say 'angels plan to open wallet to fix mess'.

I could totally be wrong. Hope I'm not.

[HaloFan85]

Actually this doesn't mean anything. They said the same things last season and the season before. This is just beat writers turning in a weekly column.

 

But none of those siginings put them over the threshold, it just put them closer and closer.  To date, I think the Angels only went over once, back in 2004.

[HaloFan85]

It goes by their payroll on a certain date near the start of the season.

I've read it's after the season around December.

[2002_halos_II]

skimming

 

 

hellz yeah - trade the only guys who produced this year for mediocre pitching.

 

 

The Angels Way.

[tomsred]

LOL at not making him a qualifying offer. This organization must hate first round picks. Inept

So if the qualifying offer is $15M, and he accepts, then we are out of extra value moves for this off season, unless there are equal value trades.  Isn't that correct?  Bummer.  I think I would rather spend the extra $15M on something younger, even if it's a gamble for next year.  Maybe, just maybe, Dipoto has some other plan that does not include Vargas for 2014?

 

You really got to love November, it's the time of the year when baseball organizations start to implement their plans for the next year.  Since they don't disclose their specific intentions, many fans jump to conclusions based on hearing about only one specific element of the plan.  When they can't make sense of it, everyone in the organization is inept and the sky starts falling from there.

Edited November 1, 2013 by tomsred

[TroutAdell]

It is also possible that you non tender Vargas and try to sign him for 2 years @ 10 mil a season. Based on the last offseason, pitchers who cost a draft pick were not picked up very fast. Vargas would be smart to entertain a multi yr. offer from the Angels for a lot less than 15 mil a season.

[Docwaukee]

It is also possible that you non tender Vargas and try to sign him for 2 years @ 10 mil a season. Based on the last offseason, pitchers who cost a draft pick were not picked up very fast. Vargas would be smart to entertain a multi yr. offer from the Angels for a lot less than 15 mil a season.

he's a free agent, not a non-tender candidate. 

[AngelsAndRamsFan]

This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. The Angels beat writers have been saying for at least a couple of months that the Angels are unlikely to make a qualifying offer to Vargas. 

 

The qualifying offer issue for Vargas will be resolved soon. if the Angels intend to make a qualifying offer to Vargas, they have to do it by Monday, Nov.4th, at 2 PDT.

 

 

• During the Quiet Period, the former team may tender a qualifying offer, which is a guaranteed one-year, $14.1MM deal for 2014.  Qualifying offer decisions by the team are due by 4pm central time on Monday, November 4th.  Check out MLBTR's qualifying offer reader poll from September for an idea of which free agents are likely to receive one.

[CardsFanVegas]

That's a real head scratcher.  

 

Jason is a fairly reliable #3 starter.   He's worth the 14.4 mil, assuming he accepts it.  Which he won't because he can get at least 4 years on the market. 

 

Take the draft pick!   Its a no-brainer. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

Pfft, hey cards fan, don't tell us about building a pitching staff.

(Just kidding. Please do. Our fix to the rotation will probably be nelson cruz).

[HaloFan85]

Arte dug himself into this hole, so he should at least consider going over the threshold for one season.  If he ignores the Wells money owed to NY in 2014, he'd have about an extra $19M to play with for the upcoming season.

[Angel Oracle]

Angry Arte, the man who wastes $365 million on two declining sluggers, but can't qualify offer a decent pitcher $14 million?

MLB should be laughing at him.

[James]

Redundancy rules. 

[Season Over]

I don't see a downside to giving him an offer. Vargas knows that declining that offer would seriously lessen his value on the free agent market. It's probably an overpay, but you still get to keep a mid-rotation starter if he sticks around.