Inside the MLB Culture Wars That Led to Joe Maddon’s Firing

[AngelsLakersFan]

8 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

And I still want to know, after the dust settled.... did he shave it all off, or grow the rest out?

He wrote a book about it. You’ll have to buy it to find out!

[ten ocho recon scout]

Just now, AngelsLakersFan said:

He wrote a book about it. You’ll have to buy it to find out!

Like @Brandon pointed out, the wine thing is a little off

 

so im picturing Joe at some fancy spot, having a glass of wine. And hes got a gray mohawk. And the young people who work there are like "whoa, I think that guy was in the Sex Pistols!"

[Brandon]

3 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Like @Brandon pointed out, the wine thing is a little off

 

so im picturing Joe at some fancy spot, having a glass of wine. And hes got a gray mohawk. And the young people who work there are like "whoa, I think that guy was in the Sex Pistols!"

haha

[Lou]

Just picture Joe walking out of Perry's office with a mohawk, with his shoulders slumped over, doing the walk-of-shame after being fired

Now picture Perry shaking his head and chuckling at the sight of it. 

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

Looks like the cut out the dysfunction and he's busy trying to paint himself as the good guy.  

doesn't have the balls to promote himself against Eppstein after getting fired and parlays his tired schtick into a new job via ownership as opposed to via the GM.  Then, after his typical antics wear thin (almost immediately) he loses his power play to a 2nd year GM and goes on some sort of half asses pseudo vindication roadshow revealing his true colors to the general public.   

I have a question for all the Maddon supporters.  While I don't agree, let's say you're right that Maddon is a better field manager than Nevin.  Based on what he's shown of himself over the last several weeks as to what he capable of in terms of leadership, would you feel good about handing him the power, influence, and responsibility he clearly thinks he deserves or would want in terms of the direction and future of this franchise or even putting him in charge for the next 1-2 seasons?

Eppler owes Arte and Maddon a debt of gratitude for freeing him from this shit show.  Because if that didn't happen he'd be caught up in the Maddon donkey show instead of worrying about his team's next playoff game.     

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

Just picture Joe walking out of Perry's office with a mohawk, with his shoulders slumped over, doing the walk-of-shame after being fired

Now picture Perry shaking his head and chuckling at the sight of it. 

I picture this:

but with a mowhawk.  

[Blarg]

Well, he got the math right. 

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

I should have made this a poll. F Perry and superiors that flex like this.  Each org is different and some owners have more control than others. Curious where Arte fits into this love triangle.  I don’t believe Perry had to go to HR or the like.  I do believe the manager is hired to call the shots. 

[ScottT]

I'd rather have a drink with Joe Maddon than 95% of the people on this board.

I'd rather him manage the Angels than 100% of the people on this board.

[Stradling]

35 minutes ago, ScottT said:

I'd rather have a drink with Joe Maddon than 95% of the people on this board.

I'd rather him manage the Angels than 100% of the people on this board.

Cool.  Enjoy your wine.

[ukyah]

52 minutes ago, ScottT said:

I'd rather have a drink with Joe Maddon than 95% of the people on this board.

I'd rather him manage the Angels than 100% of the people on this board.

luckily the options for angels manager aren't limited to joe maddon or angelswin.

[Blarg]

Maddon would probably be a good drinking buddy because he would unleash stories that were supposed to stay in the clubhouse. 

[Stradling]

Just now, Blarg said:

Maddon would probably be a good drinking buddy because he would unleash stories that were supposed to stay in the clubhouse where he is constantly the victim.  

 

[mmc]

Lol

 

[TurboFan]

On 10/6/2022 at 2:25 PM, Hubs said:

 

I work with an extreme Micro manager and I've gotta tell you it chafes. It sucks thinking they don't understand that you have something handled. It's a terrible work environment. You either trust Joe or you don't. 

And he didn’t. End of story. You are fired Joe.

[jsnpritchett]

Lol. 

https://nypost.com/2022/10/21/walt-weiss-turns-down-marlins-interview-manger-searches-heat-up/

"Author and all-around bon vivant Joe Maddon’s phone hasn’t rung yet. The emphasis on analytics may be working against him — interesting since he was at the forefront of the movement. It’s possible, too, his rough breakup with the Angels and candid quotes in his new book, “The Book of Joe: Trying Not to Suck at Baseball and Life” with Tom Verducci, may work against him."

[Stradling]

I don’t know if he’s received calls or not, because I thought I read he was going to be interviewed for the White Sox gig.  That being said, analytics aren’t working against Joe. Joe’s arrogance is working against Joe. 

[T.G.]

The man really loves himself.

"I was at the forefront..."

Edited October 21, 2022 by T.G.

[Docwaukee]

since when is he a 2x world champion manager?  

I wonder if Joe realizes that the reason he's getting media interest isn't because they're buying what he's selling but because he sparks controversy.  

He's basically become clickbait.  

[T.G.]

30 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

since when is he a 2x world champion manager?  

Dan Patrick frequently screws stuff up about baseball.  It's rare that he even talks about baseball.

[Inside Pitch]

10 hours ago, T.G. said:

The man really loves himself.

"I was at the forefront..."

I got a kick out of how he claims his real issue is that analytics "gets too much credit".  Can't have that....  Turning Altuve into Ichiro is priceless too.  

[ukyah]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

I got a kick out of how he claims his real issue is that analytics "gets too much credit".  Can't have that....  Turning Altuve into Ichiro is priceless too.  

i'm not interested enough in joe maddon to watch this entire interview. got a time stamp or quick summation of what the ichiro/altuve comment is?

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, ukyah said:

i'm not interested enough in joe maddon to watch this entire interview. got a time stamp or quick summation of what the ichiro/altuve comment is?

About 3:25.  I'm guilty of hyperbole to a degree, he responds to "how would you fix Altuve's slump" by saying he'd tell him to simplify things, not swing for power and simply aim for singles up the middle.  Wouldn't expect a guy who tanked a pitching staff with awful positioning to understand how other teams use that data to limit "singles up the middle".  But I'm sure nobody on the Astros staff has mentioned hitting it up the middle or simplifying his approach.

[Blarg]

Yeah but they did it in an analytical and not holistic way.

[Docwaukee]

10 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

I got a kick out of how he claims his real issue is that analytics "gets too much credit".  Can't have that....  Turning Altuve into Ichiro is priceless too.  

There is even subtlety in some of his pronouns.  Says we when it's something that would make him look good.  Says they (even though he was part of that they) when he talks about the bad stuff.  

If you didn't know him and his history and hadn't been around him for a few years then you might have a different view of what he's saying.  

But this isn't about how analytics take credit or have become too intrusive.  Because in most situations it seems very functional.  

This is about a pissing match between a GM and a manager.   And who knows how it escalated.  My guess is some combo of Minasian trying to implement a data driven approach and Joe resisting that in some way.  Minasian pushing harder and harder to get his agenda in place and Joe digging his feet in the sand.  Eventually leading Perry to get more extreme than should be necessary to get what he wants.   And Joe ultimately telling him to F off.  So it ended up being a 'him or me' situation.  

It's really not that dissimilar to the MS vs. Dipoto situation is my guess.  

At the end of the day it goes back to something I've mentioned many times and that's the dysfunctional leadership structure between the GM and Manager created by Arte.  I'm not saying a manager should just dig his head in and be afraid of a conflicting view point.  Both sides have to challenge one another but there has to be an alpha.  A king of the jungle.  Not a bunch of sheep and cows.  

So Maddon ultimately lost because there was no middle ground between him and Perry.  Now he's using his defeat to create a narrative that's really different than why he lost.