Inside the MLB Culture Wars That Led to Joe Maddon’s Firing

[BTH]

This was brought up within another thread by @Brandon and I think it’s interesting enough to have its own thread as there is more to unpack in the full article:

 

Maddon thought he had a good idea of why Minasian was there. Over the previous few days Minasian had told Maddon he was considering firing some coaches. “You can’t do that,” Maddon had told him. “They’re very good at what they do. No, that’s not the answer.”

Maddon took Minasian’s appearance on his doorstep as a bad sign for his coaches. They sat down in the living room. Minasian made a quick comment about Maddon getting “a haircut.” The words lacked the lilt of humor. Quickly it was apparent why. Minasian said he was “making a change” and removing him as manager. “I’ve got to do something, Joe,” Minasian told him.

…

Maddon’s firing had not been Moreno’s idea, anyway. It was Minasian’s. The GM spoke with Moreno just that morning and told the owner what he had in mind. “If this is what you decide is needed to right the ship, go ahead,” Moreno told him, according to a team source familiar with the conversation. “It’s totally your call.”

…

Maddon was also put off by some of the copycat processes implemented by Minasian. 

The Giants, Dodgers and Braves especially served as references for Minasian and his front office staff. In 2022 the GM instituted daily meetings with players, primarily the hitters, rather than just the traditional first-game-of-a-series meeting. “I just think it’s way too over the top,” Maddon says. “[Minasian] kept reminding me, ‘The Braves did it. The Braves did it.’ Fine. A lot of things were related to ‘We did it this way with the Braves,’ or ‘This is how the Giants did it.’ We were all over trying to do things like somebody else.”

After last season, Minasian replaced Maddon’s bench coach, Mike Gallego, with Ray Montgomery, a 52-year-old former player making the rare jump from the front office to the field. Montgomery, who had been the director of player personnel, was working in uniform for the first time after spending most of his career in scouting. Montgomery helped run those daily meetings.

…

Moreover, what Maddon calls a pregame “choreography” took root, spearheaded by Minasian and Tamin. Those two, not Maddon and his coaches, would decide which relief pitchers were not available for the game that night. It was based on a proprietary algorithm developed by Tamin that kept track of a pitcher’s work in rolling 30-day increments. In recent years it had become common for front offices to usurp control of the bullpen from managers. So-and-so “is down tonight” entered baseball parlance, and it came from upstairs. “In that losing stretch that led to my demise, a lot of relievers were made unavailable,” Maddon says. “I couldn’t use them.

“Tam had the 30-day matrix built on how to use relief pitchers, how often and how much rest they needed. Honestly, that’s insulting.”

…

The divide between old and new, manager and front office, data and art, Maddon and Minasian, reached a boiling point on May 9. The Angels had just scored five runs in the seventh inning against the Rays to turn a 6–3 lead into an 11–3 blowout. Ohtani hit a grand slam. The dugout was lively. Suddenly, head athletic trainer Mike Frostad walked up to Maddon at his usual perch on the top step of the dugout and said, “Perry just called down. He said get Trout out of the game.”

Earlier in the day Trout had complained about a bit of soreness in his groin. But later he told Maddon that the soreness dissipated, and he was fine.

To Maddon, Minasian broke a sacred code. The GM had called the dugout during a game to dictate strategy to the manager—a proven, veteran manager at that. To Minasian, he simply was deploying the power given to this generation of executives. Nothing was sacred. Nothing was out of bounds.

The next day Maddon blew up at Minasian in Maddon’s office. “Listen, don’t you ever f------ call down to the dugout again!” Maddon said.

Twenty-six days later, he was gone.

https://www.si.com/mlb/2022/10/06/joe-maddon-tom-verducci-book-excerpt

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

Love Joe’s response.  “Don’t you ever fucking call down to the dugout.”
 

https://apple.news/AS3lawxCNTOC-7bfLAGdG_Q

[Blarg]

Minasian made the right call to get him off the field and rest. Maddon disagrees simply because no suit is going to tell him what to do. 

[Blarg]

Really? Maddon made so many stupid seat of the pants calls that he should have been fired after year 2. 

[BTH]

I didn’t even realize that GMs were allowed to call down to the dugout.

With MLB’s crackdown on technology after the Astros scandal, I’m surprised communication from upstairs to the dugout is allowed in games.

[T.G.]

I agree with Maddon on this one. 

I'm not a Maddon fan, but I still agree with his point of view on this.

[Erstad Grit]

I agree with Perry on this one from a baseball perspective, and lose respect for Joe in sharing it. 

[BTH]

4 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Minasian made the right call to get him off the field and rest. Maddon disagrees simply because no suit is going to tell him what to do. 

I agree.

Maddon is inadvertently outing himself as an idiot every time he tries to diss the Angels.

[Dtwncbad]

Who cares about this?  Would anybody be upset if the Maddon took Trout out of the game on his own?  He didn’t, and Minasian called the dugout to have them do it.

So what?

Sounds like a step to get in sync where one party speaks up.  This is a dumb story.

[T.G.]

Maddon is trying to stay relevant.  It's kind of sad.  I'd rather he just go away, but that's not likely.

That being said - his thoughts on how GM's and analytics are taking over are worth noting.

[beatlesrule]

[bloodbrother]

Yeah, why would you want to do things like the *checks notes* defending WS champs and a team that's won the division for 5 straight years. Sucks they hired Maddon in the first place but at least it's over

[Dtwncbad]

1 minute ago, T.G. said:

Maddon is trying to stay relevant.  It's kind of sad.  I'd rather he just go away, but that's not likely.

That being said - his thoughts on how GM's and analytics are taking over are worth noting.

Maddon at some point in his career got spoiled as being viewed as the darling main character, and he clearly wasn’t happy when things happened that didn’t fall into perpetuating him as the darling, main character.

[Dtwncbad]

1 minute ago, bloodbrother said:

Yeah, why would you want to do things like the *checks notes* defending WS champs and a team that's won the division for 5 straight years. Sucks they hired Maddon in the first place but at least it's over

What a tool.  Look in the mirror Maddon.  Basically Maddon is saying he wants to do it the way he has always done it.

Maybe Minasian was sick of that, and he is the boss.

[Blarg]

Maddon was a drinking buddy hire, not Minasian's choice. He had to let him hang himself in front of Moreno before he could fire him. The bases loaded walk was the tipping point when all of the baseball media said, WTF?

[Dtwncbad]

18 minutes ago, The Ghost of Bob Starr said:

Love Joe’s response.  “Don’t you ever fucking call down to the dugout.”
 

https://apple.news/AS3lawxCNTOC-7bfLAGdG_Q

“Don’t worry Joe, I won’t ever call YOU in the dugout again.”

[tdawg87]

I understand both sides of the argument. 

Sorry for the non answer, but I don't really have anything to add. Maddon has a very good point, but at the same time there shouldn't be a complete disconnect with his boss. 

[Inside Pitch]

How long before Maddon claims Minasian touched him inappropriately?   Because chapter three of 'It's not that I wouldn't listen, they overreached" is exactly like the other two.

[tdawg87]

3 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

How long before Maddon claims Minasian touched him inappropriately?  

[HeavenlyHalos]

I'm so glad Maddon is no longer here. The fact that he is narking on everything is even more pathetic. Dude will never get another managerial job with this griping. Perry was 100% right to fire this joke 

[Inside Pitch]

Just now, HeavenlyHalos said:

I'm so glad Maddon is no longer here. The fact that he is narking on everything is even more pathetic. Dude will never get another managerial job with this griping. Perry was 100% right to fire this joke 

The "sanctity" of the dugout/clubhouse is only a thing if it benefits him. 

[Dtwncbad]

I got really tired of Scioscia, and that isn’t Scioscia’s fault really.  It was more that he was good enough to stick around long enough for people like me to get sick of him.

But I was sick of Maddon FAST.

I really don’t care if he comes up with some “good points” in his defense now.  I was totally on board with dumping his “look at me I am special and everyone should love me and celebrate me” demeanor.

Even the Mohawk.  Jesus.  Another pathetic attempt to manage in a way where he gets the credit when the team turns it around.  The guy wanted the narrative to be that HE (Maddon Mohawk!) was the mastermind in manipulating the clubhouse culture to get things straightened out.

Good riddance Joe.  Congrats on wrecking your own Angel legacy by being a lazy entitled narcissist in your grand return to your original home team.

[Brandon]

I always thought Maddon was suspect when he started showing up to post game press conferences with a glass of wine

[BTH]

46 minutes ago, Trendon said:

Maddon thought he had a good idea of why Minasian was there. Over the previous few days Minasian had told Maddon he was considering firing some coaches. “You can’t do that,” Maddon had told him. “They’re very good at what they do. No, that’s not the answer.”

This is probably a decent sign that there will be a number of coaching changes this offseason.

But it still makes me wonder why Minasian didn’t fire Joe *and* some coaches or fire some coaches after he fired Joe.

[Dtwncbad]

3 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I always thought Maddon was suspect when he started showing up to post game press conferences with a glass of wine

“Look at me!  It’s about ME!”