Inside the MLB Culture Wars That Led to Joe Maddon’s Firing

[HeavenlyHalos]

Serious question: is Hubs Lifetime?

[Hubs]

1 minute ago, Dtwncbad said:

So now they should start every 9th inning with four walks AND bench Trout and Rendon to score more runs.

Please continue.  This is getting good.

That's a logical fallacy. I'm saying they scored significant more runs last year with the same type of injuries (arguably worse). So what changed?

I said the 9th inning four walks was dumb. that's an automatic loss if it's tied or they are down. C'mon, we disagree on the manager and the role they should play, obviously, but I'm not a moron with the four walks.

[Hubs]

Just now, HeavenlyHalos said:

Serious question: is Hubs Lifetime?

Hahaha no. That's funny though.

[jsnpritchett]

1 minute ago, Hubs said:

I understand the reason. I just don't buy the company line. 

I guarantee you that the new owners and Arte would be much happier if when they complete the purchase next fall, that the team had just won a World Series. Even if it meant Scioscia had a 3 year contract or whatever.

And had signed two or three big dollar players. Winning is the ultimate goal. Not having a tighter financial ship.

 

 

Ok, I'm officially done.  Basically none of what you're saying is logical.  I'm sorry that we can't get on the same page.  I don't understand you at all.  Hopefully we can both find some enjoyment in whatever happens next season.

[Hubs]

2 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

I'm now convinced that this is a bit or some sort of long-term con/performance art.  Right?  That's the only logical reason for your posting patterns at this point...

Also, offense was down overall this year.  In 2021, the average AL team scored 4.6 runs per game.  In 2022, the average AL team scored 4.22 runs per game.  Context matters.

This is funny. 

And yes, ok, good point. That makes sense.

[Hubs]

Just now, Hubs said:

This is funny. 

And yes, ok, good point. That makes sense.

Do you think the runs is because of the baseball? Or something else?

 

[failos]

Just now, Hubs said:

This is funny. 

And yes, ok, good point. That makes sense.

Don’t forget the juiced ball from last season

[Inside Pitch]

12 minutes ago, Hubs said:

The hitters other than Ohtani and Trout, and to some extent Rengifo looked terrible under Nevin, but under Maddon, guys like Wade were hitting well.

Tyler Wade, your example of a guy doing well under Maddon put up a .218/.271/.291 batting line through June 7th when Maddon was fired.   He then hit .216/.275/.215 under Nevin.  The biggest difference is he went from playing almost everyday under Maddon to making 10 starts the rest of the way.  That was a net gain, particularly since the guy that benefited from him no longer starting was Rengifo who has hit .271/.295/.449 under Nevin after sporting a .186/.254/.273 batting line his first two years under Maddon and a  .223/.290/.337 line this season.

Guessing Rengifo was one of the young guys that Nevin felt needed more coaching time.

[Hubs]

1 minute ago, jsnpritchett said:

Ok, I'm officially done.  Basically none of what you're saying is logical.  I'm sorry that we can't get on the same page.  I don't understand you at all.  Hopefully we can both find some enjoyment in whatever happens next season.

All my "illogical" posts come down to this... Nevin sucks as a manager. Perry is overreaching. The team performed worse after Maddon was fired. 

I think next year will be a struggle, unless they do some serious roster shakeup. I no longer have faith that Perry will get it done, the way that I did under Eppler. I think both will be gone in 2024.

 

[HeavenlyHalos]

This dude has to be Lifetime. Only explanation for these nonsensical counterarguments 

[Hubs]

Just now, Inside Pitch said:

Tyler Wade, your example of a guy doing well under Maddon put up a .218/.271/.291 batting line through June 7th when Maddon was fired.   He then hit .216/.275/.215 under Nevin.  The biggest difference is he went from playing almost everyday under Maddon to making 10 starts the rest of the way.  That was a net gain, particularly since the guy that benefited from him no longer starting was Rengifo who has hit .271/.295/.449 under Nevin after sporting a .186/.254/.273 batting line his first two years under Maddon and a  .223/.290/.337 line this season.

Guessing Rengifo was one of the young guys that Nevin felt needed more coaching time.

Wade hit .304 / .347/ .370 / .717 in April, Struggled in May, played less in June under Nevin, was supplanted by Rengifo. Ok, so he's not a good example, but I guess I just remembered him looking good and stealing bases in April...

[Hubs]

3 minutes ago, HeavenlyHalos said:

This dude has to be Lifetime. Only explanation for these nonsensical counterarguments 

I've been posting here for 19 years. I think the Lifetime comparison is funny though.

[jsnpritchett]

3 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Tyler Wade, your example of a guy doing well under Maddon put up a .218/.271/.291 batting line through June 7th when Maddon was fired.   He then hit .216/.275/.215 under Nevin.  The biggest difference is he went from playing almost everyday under Maddon to making 10 starts the rest of the way.  That was a net gain, particularly since the guy that benefited from him no longer starting was Rengifo who has hit .271/.295/.449 under Nevin after sporting a .186/.254/.273 batting line his first two years under Maddon and a  .223/.290/.337 line this season.

Guessing Rengifo was one of the young guys that Nevin felt needed more coaching time.

Maddon was fired on June 7, but I think it was before the game that day, right?  I think the numbers I posted earlier for Wade might have been correct.  The larger point is that he was a terrible hitter regardless of who was managing and it's a good thing that a) he played less under Nevin, and b) was eventually released.

[Dtwncbad]

6 minutes ago, Hubs said:

All my "illogical" posts come down to this... Nevin sucks as a manager. Perry is overreaching. The team performed worse after Maddon was fired. 

I think next year will be a struggle, unless they do some serious roster shakeup. I no longer have faith that Perry will get it done, the way that I did under Eppler. I think both will be gone in 2024.

 

You can think Nevin sucks all you want.  But I assume that means you want a top tier established manager instead.

You are not being realistic.  No top tier established manager is going to sign a one year deal.  And they also are not going to commit to a multi-year contract with a team where they have no idea who will be their boss in 9 months.

So blame Minasian all you want.  The team is not in a position to attract the top tier established manager right now.  They would pick a different team or just wait a year to see who the new owner (and potentially new front office) will be.

When you are hungry now, you eat the spam in the fridge and don’t complain that steak at Ruth Chris would be better.

Edited October 7, 2022 by Dtwncbad

[HeavenlyHalos]

2 minutes ago, Hubs said:

I've been posting here for 19 years. I think the Lifetime comparison is funny though.

That's even scarier

[T.G.]

Geckos can replace all 100 teeth in a period of three to four months.

[Inside Pitch]

35 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Saying you're not being logical isn't "insulting your intelligence."  It's saying that, for whatever reason, you're not looking at the data rationally. 

As for Wade, he was hitting .208/.263/.274 on the day Maddon was fired.  What was his final slash line when the Angels let him go, you might ask?  Sure, it was .212/.272/.272.  What does that mean?  He hit .244/.296/.268 after Maddon was fired.  So he was objectively terrible throughout the year, but he was, in fact, a "better" hitter under Nevin, if you really want to look at it like that.

I'm more than happy to look at any "other possible factors" that you present, as long as they're rational.  You just haven't done so, at least that I've seen.

..... GDI.

Well done, sir.

[Dtwncbad]

4 minutes ago, Hubs said:

I've been posting here for 19 years. I think the Lifetime comparison is funny though.

19 years is pretty much a lifetime.  So you ARE lifetime?

[Dtwncbad]

2 minutes ago, T.G. said:

Geckos can replace all 100 teeth in a period of three to four months.

Too bad for Gecko’s husband.

[T.G.]

Just now, Dtwncbad said:

Too bad for Gecko’s husband.

Gordon?

[Hubs]

Just now, Dtwncbad said:

You can think Nevin sucks all you want.  But I assume that means you want a top tier established manager instead.

You are not being realistic.  No top tier established d manager is going to sign a one year deal.  And they also are not going to commit to a multi-year contract with a team where they have no idea who will be their boss in 9 months.

So blame Minasian all you want.  The team is not in a position to attract the top tier established manager right now.  They would pick a different team or just wait a year to see who the new owner (and potentially new front office) will be.

When you are hungry now, you eat the spam in the fridge and don’t complain that steak at Ruth Chris would be better.

Ok, so this is a good post. Yes I think Nevin Sucks. Yes I want a top tier established manager. 

Me being not realistic is only true in your point of view and if the assumptions about the front office and their intentions, you and others have made are correct. I think a top manager would've jumped at the chance for one of thirty Major league jobs, that includes two of the best players in the league.

I will continue to blame Minasian, until he shows me his approach works and this team returns to the playoffs. Otherwise, he's right where DiPoto and Eppler were. Unsuccessful.

You're Bruce Bochy for instance, and you'd pick the Royals over the Angels right now?

I fully endorse the Nevin is Spam analogy. See you all later, I'm going to Ruth's Chris.

[Inside Pitch]

16 minutes ago, HeavenlyHalos said:

Serious question: is Hubs Lifetime?

The man likes Maddon but he's not demanding people provide links.   I think we are safe.

[Lou]

I like Hubs.

[Dtwncbad]

1 minute ago, Hubs said:

Ok, so this is a good post. Yes I think Nevin Sucks. Yes I want a top tier established manager. 

Me being not realistic is only true in your point of view and if the assumptions about the front office and their intentions, you and others have made are correct. I think a top manager would've jumped at the chance for one of thirty Major league jobs, that includes two of the best players in the league.

I will continue to blame Minasian, until he shows me his approach works and this team returns to the playoffs. Otherwise, he's right where DiPoto and Eppler were. Unsuccessful.

You're Bruce Bochy for instance, and you'd pick the Royals over the Angels right now?

I fully endorse the Nevin is Spam analogy. See you all later, I'm going to Ruth's Chris.

No Bruce Bochy doesn’t pick the Royals.  Bruce Bochy, if he wants to manage again, would take a top job with a premium team or wait til next year.

[HeavenlyHalos]

Just now, Lou said:

I like Hubs.

Wait... does that make you Lifetime then?