Ohtani or Judge as MVP?

[Taylor]

3 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

 

Yes, the rules were different.  From '22-'29, if you won the award, you weren't eligible to win it again.  That's why Ruth only won one.

Blarg and I learned something new today.

[jsnpritchett]

2 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Blarg and I learned something new today.

[Taylor]

He forgot to log in to his burner account.

[m0nkey]

6 hours ago, Taylor said:

Blarg and I learned something new today.

I have heard Blarg cannot learn as he already knows all

[happybat4]

Judge is obviously great, and WAR favors him as well. But I can't get over this fact.

Who would be more valuable?

Player A

.050 AVG, .062 OBP, 25 HR, 40 Runs, 38 RBI, 0 2B, 0 3B, 5 SB, 21 BB, 27 Hits

Player B

148 IP, 2.48 ERA, 196 SO, 1.041 WHIP

I am guessing more people would choose player B. 

[Angelsjunky]

A pretty cool chart from this article. Judge aside, it is interesting to see how things thin out around 160 (the same is true of wRC+). 160 generally means you're one of the top 5 hitters in baseball. 170 might lead the majors, 180 almost always does - and many seasons don't have a 180 OPS+/wRC+ hitter.

Judge's season is noteworthy because, as of this writing, it is the highest non-Bondsian OPS+ (and wRC+, I think) since the 1950s and Mickey Mantle and Ted Williams. Considering how stats have equalized since, it truly is a remarkable season.

 

[jsnpritchett]

Judge just hit #60.

[beatlesrule]

Yankees won that game on a walk off grand slam from Stanton. Judge is front and center on ESPN with #60. I don't think Ohtani is getting the same attention when he pitches a gem and has a good hitting game even though once again, Ohtani is doing something NO OTHER PLAYER has. Just imagine if Ohtani was on the Yankees too. ESPN wouldn't know what to do with themselves.

[Docwaukee]

On 9/19/2022 at 1:14 PM, jsnpritchett said:

 

Yes, the rules were different.  From '22-'29, if you won the award, you weren't eligible to win it again.  That's why Ruth only won one.

newbs

[ten ocho recon scout]

4 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

newbs

This is AW.com

 

The proper term is "pubes"

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, beatlesrule said:

Yankees won that game on a walk off grand slam from Stanton. Judge is front and center on ESPN with #60. I don't think Ohtani is getting the same attention when he pitches a gem and has a good hitting game even though once again, Ohtani is doing something NO OTHER PLAYER has. Just imagine if Ohtani was on the Yankees too. ESPN wouldn't know what to do with themselves.

To me this lends itself to him being a pretty strong candidate for the HOF even if he can't sustain it for like 15-20 years.  And even if he doesn't hit any typical HOF milestones.  Not giving him the MVP is kind of like punishing the unicorn because he's a unicorn.  

But Judge has been absolutely incredible.  running away with hr and rbi titles and now with the batting title lead.   It really is one of the greatest offensive seasons of all time.  Especially considering the quality of competition now.  

Personally, I would have a very hard time casting a vote if I had one.  But who he plays for is going to have a large impact on who's gonna win.  In other words, if Ohtani was a Yankee and Judge a Halo, I think Ohtani wins pretty easily.  

[Blarg]

I think Judge wins even if he is on the A's. 

[Duren, Duren]

And Ohtani winning last year makes it an easy justification to vote for Judge.

Not that he doesn't deserve it. It's as if Ohtani already was acknowledged for his uniqueness and now is taken for granted. The subconscious feeling might be that there is no need to keep doing it unless he towers over other competitors. Which isn't the case this season. 

The interesting thing will be to see how far he gets in Cy Young voting. His innings will be more than the relief pitchers who have won the award. And he's the undisputed ace on a losing team. Probably ending with twice as many wins than losses and great metrics on a team struggling on offense and defense. But again, there is tough competition. 

I see him finishing second in the MVP, third for the Cy Young. Even though collectively this season is probably better than last year 

 

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

I think Judge wins even if he is on the A's. 

Especially if he ends up winning the triple crown.  

Breaks the AL HR record and hits more hrs than anyone not on roids?
Yankee and they're making the playoffs?
Wins triple crown or even comes close?

that's like the triple crown of crack for the voters.  

[Angelsjunky]

I'd say Judge's chances of winning the MVP:

Right now: 90%

When Judge hits #62: 95%

If he wins the Triple Crown: 98%

Oh, he's also on pace for the first non-Bonds 11 fWAR hitting season since Joe Morgan in 1975.

Ohtani is historic, but so is Judge. And unlike Judge, someone had a similar season to Ohtani just last year.

[m0nkey]

Think it’s only a matter of how many first place votes ohtani gets. Judge should win easily but I’m sure a few voters will vote for Ohtani. I’ll say 3-5

[eligrba]

I would find great joy if Judge signed with the Giants in the off season. The Yankee butt hurt would be epic.

Edited September 21, 2022 by eligrba

[Chuck]

I have to agree with Trent Rush. 

 

[CaliAngel]

5 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I have to agree with Trent Rush. 

 

Yeah that's fine and good and we're all very proud of Ohtani for that...BUT! Have you SEEN the jersey that Judge wears????

[Deek]

For me it's not even a close discussion...

1.04 WHIP, 2.4 ERA, .900 OPS...

 

Judge is having a great season for a power hitter (albeit on a little league field).  He CAN NOT impact the game in a more meaningful way than Shohei...

 

There's no argument beyond: "well, we want to mix it up this year and give it to someone else".... or "Shohei has an "unfair" advantage as a pitcher"... or "but the HR record is such a hallowed record we have to acknowledge the feat somehow"...

 

Judge is not even an elite fielder (which is kind of amazing really when you consider he only has to cover ground about the size of your living room)...

 

Who is the league's "Most Valuable Player"... uh - Shohei...

[Swordsman78]

If Judge becomes the first "non Steroid" influenced player to break Maris record it will be hard to deny him the MVP.  Especially with the east coast media slobbering over the record.  Ohtani has done something that they really need to come up with a new award for.  His season was THAT special on so many levels.  

We just need to come up with a name for the award.  Maybe the Ohtani Trophy.   Awarded to the best player in both leagues based on multiple  metrics.

[m0nkey]

On 9/14/2022 at 9:34 PM, m0nkey said:

And you know that there are two voters for each AL/NL city make up the voter pool for awards?

 

On 9/15/2022 at 12:42 AM, Jeff Fletcher said:

There are two voters from each city.

So there are 10 voters from AL East cities and 10 voters from AL West cities.

Feels like this is worth mentioning again with people saying east coast bias

[ScottT]

I laugh when anyone says it's not a debate or not even close.  It's totally worth a debate.  WAR is severely flawed when it comes to this comparison.

Judge is gonna win.   I have no problem with it.  

I'd certainly sell any home run ball I wound up with.  People be crazy.  

[ten ocho recon scout]

20 minutes ago, ScottT said:

 

I'd certainly sell any home run ball I wound up with.  People be crazy.  

Was thinking about this earlier today. They were talking about how much it might go for on the radio.

Younger me used to think "maaaan... you catch that ball, what do you do? You sell it and you're rich. But you keep it, and you're the only person in the world with something so historic!"

 

Current me would sell it for well under "rich". 

[Lou]

5 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Was thinking about this earlier today. They were talking about how much it might go for on the radio.

Younger me used to think "maaaan... you catch that ball, what do you do? You sell it and you're rich. But you keep it, and you're the only person in the world with something so historic!"

 

Current me would sell it for well under "rich". 

Not even a question.