Ohtani or Judge as MVP?

[Angelsjunky]

Judge is having a career year, but it isn't a fluke. Remember, he hit 52 HR, 174 wRC+ and 8.8 WAR in his ROY/MVP 2017 season, and has been very good overall since, with a wRC+ in the 140-150 range, though prone to various injuries. But if you're looking to sign him long-term, I think the expectation should be closer to 2021 (5.5 WAR, 150 wRC+) than 2022 (10+ WAR, 200ish wRC+), even if he could still put together another monster season or two within the next five years. But with his injury history and huge body, he should also be expected to miss some time.

 

[Chuck]

What a clown. 

 

[Blarg]

Sounds like an agent talking. 

[Taylor]

Classic New York Post conflating blowhard opinion for facts.

[tdawg87]

31 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

What a clown. 

 

Heyman's wife is obviously fucking some dude in California.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Literally nobody can be upset if Judge wins it. Regardless of what we think, Judge is having a phenom season. Like peak Trout.

But it's still hard to ignore Shohei.... there's no way to seriously gauge how good he is.

We've seen Judge years before. Ohtani this year is Scherzer mixed with Vlad Jr... 

 

 

[Dtwncbad]

Admittedly I didn’t read every post in the 4 pages so excuse me if I repeat something already said. 

Cabrera winning the MVP with the triple crown (novelty) over Trout’s higher WAR that year is an argument FOR the possibility of Ohtani’s unique accomplishments winning over Judge’s higher WAR.

I am not sure this is the position I would personally take,  but you could definitely argue that Ohtani’s unique versatility makes him uniquely valuable (hard to compare with Judge) in that he can help a team win in many different ways.

I sort of stopped caring too much who wins this award because baseball has done a shitty job really defining it.  Or maybe they have left it intentionally vague so that it spurs lots of arguments over it and therefore gets attention?

In the end, it will be either Judge or Ohtani and at least this year neither would be clearly “wrong.”

 

 

 

[Jay]

Glad to see that tweet was deleted.

 

[Angelsjunky]

12 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Heyman's wife is obviously fucking some dude in California.

[AngelsLakersFan]

On 9/14/2022 at 9:54 PM, Tank said:

when will we get the one definitive stat to forever settle this argument on who is better? 

 

RBI+

Lol... Reminds me that I once put together an RBI estimator.. number of RBI's a player would get batting in an average spot in an average lineup. I thought the results were pretty interesting.

[Taylor]

1 hour ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Lol... Reminds me that I once put together an RBI estimator.. number of RBI's a player would get batting in an average spot in an average lineup. I thought the results were pretty interesting.

Did it accurately predict that Matt Duffy would have 11 RBIs on September 17?

[AngelsLakersFan]

15 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Did it accurately predict that Matt Duffy would have 11 RBIs on September 17?

Im sure it would have expected him to have 13-16, just on the assumption that he would have to accidentally come up to the plate with a runner on third and less than 2 outs more than 0 times.

[Mark68]

21 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

Admittedly I didn’t read every post in the 4 pages so excuse me if I repeat something already said. 

Cabrera winning the MVP with the triple crown (novelty) over Trout’s higher WAR that year is an argument FOR the possibility of Ohtani’s unique accomplishments winning over Judge’s higher WAR.

I am not sure this is the position I would personally take,  but you could definitely argue that Ohtani’s unique versatility makes him uniquely valuable (hard to compare with Judge) in that he can help a team win in many different ways.

I sort of stopped caring too much who wins this award because baseball has done a shitty job really defining it.  Or maybe they have left it intentionally vague so that it spurs lots of arguments over it and therefore gets attention?

In the end, it will be either Judge or Ohtani and at least this year neither would be clearly “wrong.”

 

 

 

I honestly wouldn't be mad either way, but the fact that Cabrera won MVP in his Triple Crown year, despite the fact that Trout had a higher WAR, is an argument in favor of Ohtani. He's in a category all his own. 

But they both deserve it. 

[Angels 1961]

MVP if you had to choose one on your team which one would you pick.

[beatlesrule]

Judge leads the league in mostly every offensive category. I don't believe Shohei leads the league in any hitting or pitching stat. I am not taking anything away from his awesomeness but voters look at that kind of stuff and Judge is just destroying the ball in every stat they care about. Add the fact he's on a first place team going to the playoffs and he's going to win the MVP.

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

Judge leads the league in mostly every offensive category. I don't believe Shohei leads the league in any hitting or pitching stat. I am not taking anything away from his awesomeness but voters look at that kind of stuff and Judge is just destroying the ball in every stat they care about. Add the fact he's on a first place team going to the playoffs and he's going to win the MVP.

What did Shohei lead in last year?

[Stradling]

And he won unanimously 

[beatlesrule]

What player was dominating like Judge and leading in almost every offensive category last year?

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

What player was dominating like Judge and leading in almost every offensive category last year?

Vlad

[beatlesrule]

Once again, you're wrong. Vlad was tied for hr, 5th in rbi's, 6th in walks and didn't blow away the 2nd place guy in most of the other main stats. Judge leads the AL in all of those and some by a large margin. Hell, he's leading baseball in a lot of the big stats. Another thing Vlad didn't do. I'm not surprised you are wrong though. Judge is having an amazing year and blowing away the 2nd place guy. 

[Stradling]

13 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

Once again, you're wrong. Vlad was tied for hr, 5th in rbi's, 6th in walks and didn't blow away the 2nd place guy in most of the other main stats. Judge leads the AL in all of those and some by a large margin. Hell, he's leading baseball in a lot of the big stats. Another thing Vlad didn't do. I'm not surprised you are wrong though. Judge is having an amazing year and blowing away the 2nd place guy. 

Haha. Ok. Sorry I hurt your feelings. 

[Inside Pitch]

31 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

Once again, you're wrong. Vlad was tied for hr, 5th in rbi's, 6th in walks and didn't blow away the 2nd place guy in most of the other main stats. Judge leads the AL in all of those and some by a large margin. Hell, he's leading baseball in a lot of the big stats. Another thing Vlad didn't do. I'm not surprised you are wrong though. Judge is having an amazing year and blowing away the 2nd place guy. 

Oh FFS.. 

Vlad Jr lead the AL in 7 offensive categories including runs, HRs, OPS, OPS+, TBs, OBP, and SLG%.   All the same shit Judge is leading in this season minus RBI (a team driven stat), WAR, and BBs.

You can make the argument Judge has been dominant without downplaying how dominant Vlad Jr was last year.

[Stradling]

12 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Oh FFS.. 

Vlad Jr lead the AL in 7 offensive categories including runs, HRs, OPS, OPS+, TBs, OBP, and SLG%.   All the same shit Judge is leading in this season minus RBI (a team driven stat), WAR, and BBs.

You can make the argument Judge had been dominant without downplaying how dominant Vlad Jr was last year.

But he wasn’t dominant enough obviously or something. 

[Inside Pitch]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

But he wasn’t dominant enough obviously or something. 

He's not wrong about Judge being a monster this year or more dominant than Vlad was.  But it's not like Vlad Jr squeaked by.

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

He's not wrong about Judge being a monster this year or more dominant than Vlad was.  But it's not like Vlad Jr squeaked by.

Right. Judge has been a monster this year. Vlad was a monster last year. Ohtani won unanimously while not leading in any category.