Ohtani or Judge as MVP?

[Lou]

Just now, m0nkey said:

Aaron Judge has not homered in 18 at bats.  Clearly this means he is faltering under pressure and is undeserving of the MVP, I'm sure.

And in his walk year. 

Loser.

[m0nkey]

1 minute ago, Lou said:

And in his walk year. 

Loser.

Thought it was a contact year?

[Lou]

Just now, m0nkey said:

Thought it was a contact year?

Touché

[ScottM]

It's so dumb. Yeah the HRs are impressive but his OPS is the same as Yelich in 2019. And Harper in 2015. And Pujols in 2008 and 2009. And Todd Helton. And Jim Thome. 

Shohei is having a season that has never been had before. 

 

Also WAR is broken

[TooCool]

Hate to say it but I think Ohtani easily played himself out of this race with no HRs in like 10 games or whatever and only has 4 this month I believe.

And we all know how many reporters get to vote when they likely have no business voting but that's just how it goes.

[tdawg87]

5 hours ago, ScottSted said:

It's so dumb. Yeah the HRs are impressive but his OPS is the same as Yelich in 2019. And Harper in 2015. And Pujols in 2008 and 2009. And Todd Helton. And Jim Thome. 

Shohei is having a season that has never been had before. 

 

Also WAR is broken

Judge's OPS+: 213

Yellich in 2019: 179

Harper in 2015: 198 

Pujols in 2008: 192

Pujols in 2009: 189

Helton in 2000: 163

Thome in 2002: 197

 

WAR might not be the best statistic in the world but I doubt you'd be saying it's "broken" if Ohtani was leading in it.

[Stradling]

19 hours ago, m0nkey said:

Aaron Judge has not homered in 18 at bats.  Clearly this means he is faltering under pressure and is undeserving of the MVP, I'm sure.

The Yankees ruined him. 

[Chuck]

[Chuck]

 

[AngelStew43]

Ohtani.  Until Judge learns how to pitch at the Major League level, there really is no other choice. 

[Hubs]

The Fangraphs and Baseball Reference WAR do have an error when dealing with him. They give him the positional adjustment of the DH when he is the pitcher. Technically he's both, and while I think the DH adjustment (-17.5 runs Fangraphs, -15 Baseball Reference) is too high in general, for the 27 or 28 games he's appeared at as a pitcher and the DH, he should be given a positive positional adjustment for batting for those innings.

It's not much, but it would be worth maybe -2 runs in his pitching days, but if they gave him a positive position adjustment of +7.5 it would be worth over 3 runs net. It would move his bWAR to 10.2, and his fangraphs to 9.6. Judge is at 10.2 and 11 respectively.

 

[Angels 1961]

I'd like to see Ohtani get hit in last 6 games end up with 20 game hit streak. Also get to 100 RBI's. Without a doubt Ohtani is MVP. Which player would you want on your team.

[Taylor]

1 hour ago, Chuckster70 said:

 

We're not worthy.

If the Angels don't re-sign him the organization should just shut down.

[Dtwncbad]

I stand by my simple method of determining the MVP.

You are a GM and you get the first pick in a draft to build the best team for 2022.  Who do you pick?

My best guess is most would choose Ohtani over Judge.  I would pick Ohtani.

[Rico]

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

4 hours ago, Hubs said:

The Fangraphs and Baseball Reference WAR do have an error when dealing with him. They give him the positional adjustment of the DH when he is the pitcher. Technically he's both, and while I think the DH adjustment (-17.5 runs Fangraphs, -15 Baseball Reference) is too high in general, for the 27 or 28 games he's appeared at as a pitcher and the DH, he should be given a positive positional adjustment for batting for those innings.

It's not much, but it would be worth maybe -2 runs in his pitching days, but if they gave him a positive position adjustment of +7.5 it would be worth over 3 runs net. It would move his bWAR to 10.2, and his fangraphs to 9.6. Judge is at 10.2 and 11 respectively.

 

Was actually thinking about this last night. That his numbers under WAR suffer a bit because he's a DH. Then I wondered (no idea) what his offensive WAR would be if he was viewed as a pitcher instead.

[ten ocho recon scout]

9 minutes ago, Rico said:

 

So, I totally get the steroids argument. But I wonder...

How accurate is it to say Baseball is clean now? (Tatis... pujols, cough).

And second... and I have no idea... anyone here heard of SARMs? I wonder if baseball allows them or not.

Completely legal. Literally alternate steroids. 

So who's to say it's not still happening?

[Angels 1961]

4 hours ago, Taylor said:

We're not worthy.

If the Angels don't re-sign him the organization should just shut down.

I'm sure Angels would love to sign him, but Ohtani would want to stay?

[Taylor]

36 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

I'm sure Angels would love to sign him, but Ohtani would want to stay?

He'll stay if the money is right. If he walks it's 100% on the Angels.

[Angels 1961]

6 hours ago, Taylor said:

He'll stay if the money is right. If he walks it's 100% on the Angels.

 

6 hours ago, Taylor said:

He'll stay if the money is right. If he walks it's 100% on the Angels.

That's not true maybe he wants to test FA. 

[Angels 1961]

6 hours ago, Taylor said:

He'll stay if the money is right. If he walks it's 100% on the Angels.

I feel Ohtani will be back in 2023. Moreno will leave it up to new owner to try and sign Ohtani.

[Tank]

8 hours ago, Rico said:

 

His next homer will set the American League record, fwiw. 
 

There will never be agreement on whether breaking 61 will be the “real” record. 

[Tank]

I’ll always root for an Angels player over any other, but I don’t have any issue if Judge wins the MVP this year. None. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

13 hours ago, Hubs said:

The Fangraphs and Baseball Reference WAR do have an error when dealing with him. They give him the positional adjustment of the DH when he is the pitcher. Technically he's both, and while I think the DH adjustment (-17.5 runs Fangraphs, -15 Baseball Reference) is too high in general, for the 27 or 28 games he's appeared at as a pitcher and the DH, he should be given a positive positional adjustment for batting for those innings.

It's not much, but it would be worth maybe -2 runs in his pitching days, but if they gave him a positive position adjustment of +7.5 it would be worth over 3 runs net. It would move his bWAR to 10.2, and his fangraphs to 9.6. Judge is at 10.2 and 11 respectively.

 

It is calculated correctly. There is no such thing as replacement level pitcher offense.

[ScottT]

The next person that uses the phrase "give it back" or anything like it... I will laugh hysterically