Official 2021-22 Hot Stove League Thread.

[angelsnationtalk]

Just now, arch stanton said:

It's ok. They'll get one back when someone signs Iglesias

I wouldn't want to have it replaced by getting one of those guys haha.

[Dtwncbad]

31 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Jim Edmonds did hit only 4 HRs in 322 PAs in 1994 (1st season), before exploding to 32 in 1995.

I’m in the same camp as Doc, keep Marsh unless a TRUE #1 caliber starter with at least 4 years control is coming here.

If Marsh’s power does surface, 5 tools player.

Only turns 24 in 2022.

I again also very much hope for great things from Marsh.

But citing that a different player (Edmonds) suddenly found some power really doesn’t address what I am saying.

I am saying when other teams are hunting for quality players to acquire in exchange for the stud pitcher they are trading away, they are very likely going to prefer a young player that has shown some power versus one that has not.  Telling that GM at the trade negotiation table that Jim Edmonds developed power isn’t going to help.

Marsh definitely has good trade value.  I am only concerned that his trade value at this point is probably lower than we would all like it to be.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Dtwncbad

[Vlad27Trout27]

I feel like E-Rod has been a underated pitcher. He's not an Ace, but a solid 3 that produced 3.7 War year, which is close to what Ray and Stroman produced last year at a much less cost. 

[angelsnationtalk]

Athletics Appear Set For Significant Payroll Reduction https://t.co/hYpSizKS6b pic.twitter.com/Iz4NQBtsNg

— MLB Trade Rumors (@mlbtraderumors) November 9, 2021

Can't see the Angels wanting to trade much in their own division.... But just a thought on some good pitchers.

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

I again also very much hope for great things from Marsh.

But citing that a different player (Edmonds) suddenly found some power really doesn’t address what I am saying.

I am saying when other teams are hunting for quality players to acquire in exchange for the stud pitcher they are trading away, they are very likely going to prefer a young player that has shown some power versus one that has not.  Telling that GM at the trade negotiation table that Jim Edmonds developed power isn’t going to help.

Marsh definitely has good trade value.  I am only concerned that his trade value at this point is probably lower than we would all like it to be.

That’s fair enough.

[Angel Oracle]

4 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Can't see the Angels wanting to trade much in their own division.... But just a thought on some good pitchers.

The sooner the A’th move to Vegas, the better for MLB

[BTH]

The Angels better fix their defense if they're interested in Eduardo Rodriguez.

The Red Sox bad defense was why his ERA was drastically higher than his FIP. It'd just be the same story with the Angels if their defense remains at 2021 levels.

[angelsnationtalk]

Jon Morosi discussing the Angels

Obviously he mentions the Angels realize the window is closing on Trout's prime and they have more urgency. 
Also includes names like Scherzer, Verlander and Castillo. 
Says if they get 2 arms likely it'll be one FA signing and possible trade. 

Have at it, AW. 

[Dtwncbad]

36 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

That’s fair enough.

And your enthusiasm for keeping Marsh is also very fair.

[Tank]

2 hours ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Angels would lose their 2nd round pick if they sign either one (assuming they become free agents). 

if getting a front line starter happens, this is a small price to pay and shouldn't cause them to reconsider.

[tdawg87]

1 hour ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Jon Morosi discussing the Angels

Obviously he mentions the Angels realize the window is closing on Trout's prime and they have more urgency. 
Also includes names like Scherzer, Verlander and Castillo. 
Says if they get 2 arms likely it'll be one FA signing and possible trade. 

Have at it, AW. 

Makes sense.

[Angels 1961]

36 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Makes sense.

Ray and Gray (Sonny) along with Petit in pen

[CanadianHalo]

Marcus Stroman please

[Docwaukee]

3 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

I absolutely hope he ends up a superstar (if he stays with the Angels).

But tell me objectively why you think he has that ceiling.

How are opposing GMs supposed to see that high ceiling when, so far anyway, he has not really shown any indication that he will have any power?

There is a big difference in trade value between “he might develop some power as he gets older” and “wow this guy clearly shows he has some power.”

Don’t me wrong, I am not down on this guy. I think he will be a good player.  I am only talking about his trade value right now.  If teams are going to part with an “ace” type pitcher, isn’t it reasonable that they are going to want to make a deal with a different team to land a young player that more clearly displays some ability to hit for power?

I am just trying to be realistic.  I want the Angels to get some serious high end pitching and I don’t want to be that foolish homer fan that thinks the Angels are going to get a great starting pitcher in a deal where Marsh is the main return.

Today’s game is so power driven.  I think other teams probably are going to be more interested in other young players with power as a more obvious core skill.

 

objectively he does.  He's a four tool player right now and he's got a very good ceiling for power which he's shown sporadically.   The question is whether it will show up in games and when.  Again, like most prospects it'll show up during his peak years if it does and that's 3-4 years from now.  So he might hit 12-15 for a couple years but with his combo of D, hit, discipline and speed he's likely a 3-4 WAR player at his peak without the power.  The power gives him a 5-6 WAR ceiling.  That's his real upside and a legit possibility.  

Other teams are going to be interested in value.  You're not a homer if you see Marsh as the centerpiece for high end pitching.  You are if you see Jordyn Adams as one.  If you're trying to be realistic then artificially decreasing Marsh's value without any real reason to support it just because 'he's an Angel so he's not going to be as good as people think' is silly.  He's a 60 FV guy and that's legit.  Something about 10-15 players get each year and half of those were already given that and holdovers from the previous year.  

He's absolutely a centerpiece for a top starter and frankly, I'd rather just keep him and get a starter that isn't quite as good.  

[Dtwncbad]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

objectively he does.  He's a four tool player right now and he's got a very good ceiling for power which he's shown sporadically.   The question is whether it will show up in games and when.  Again, like most prospects it'll show up during his peak years if it does and that's 3-4 years from now.  So he might hit 12-15 for a couple years but with his combo of D, hit, discipline and speed he's likely a 3-4 WAR player at his peak without the power.  The power gives him a 5-6 WAR ceiling.  That's his real upside and a legit possibility.  

Other teams are going to be interested in value.  You're not a homer if you see Marsh as the centerpiece for high end pitching.  You are if you see Jordyn Adams as one.  If you're trying to be realistic then artificially decreasing Marsh's value without any real reason to support it just because 'he's an Angel so he's not going to be as good as people think' is silly.  He's a 60 FV guy and that's legit.  Something about 10-15 players get each year and half of those were already given that and holdovers from the previous year.  

He's absolutely a centerpiece for a top starter and frankly, I'd rather just keep him and get a starter that isn't quite as good.  

So you are high on him.  Great.  I like him a lot but don’t have the level of confidence you have in terms of his ceiling.

This is another moment in time where I would be perfectly happy to be off the Mark.

[Docwaukee]

6 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

So you are high on him.  Great.  I like him a lot but don’t have the level of confidence you have in terms of his ceiling.

This is another moment in time where I would be perfectly happy to be off the Mark.

It's not about me.  You're being a bit thick here.  I'm telling you that this is an agreed upon ceiling beyond what I think.  You are making this about your opinion but I'm not really making it about mine.  And that's fine.  You are entitled to your opinion even though I'm not sure where it's grounded in something other than the partial season where you just saw him.  If you're happy to draw conclusions from that then so be it.  

[Dtwncbad]

12 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

It's not about me.  You're being a bit thick here.  I'm telling you that this is an agreed upon ceiling beyond what I think.  You are making this about your opinion but I'm not really making it about mine.  And that's fine.  You are entitled to your opinion even though I'm not sure where it's grounded in something other than the partial season where you just saw him.  If you're happy to draw conclusions from that then so be it.  

Who is being thick?  I know about his scouting report.  That doesn’t mean I can’t have my own opinion.  Relax.

I am making this about my opinion?  I am guilty of sharing my opinion and it being an opinion?

Yes this is my opinion.

As a person who has watched baseball for 45 years I think it’s fair to have your own eyeball as a fan.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Dtwncbad

[HanfordGuy]

On 11/8/2021 at 5:28 PM, angelsnationtalk said:

'if you have a pulse and you can throw, we're going to be in on you"

[HanfordGuy]

 

[HanfordGuy]

 

[HanfordGuy]

 

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, HanfordGuy said:

 

The cash-strapped A's owner is worth 2.9 Bil.

[Docwaukee]

3 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

Who is being thick?  I know about his scouting report.  That doesn’t mean I can’t have my own opinion.  Relax.

I am making this about my opinion?  I am guilty of sharing my opinion and it being an opinion?

Yes this is my opinion.

As a person who has watched baseball for 45 years I think it’s fair to have your own eyeball as a fan.

you.  you're being thick.  you asked for an objective opinion on Marsh yet you already know his scouting report?  Why'd you ask then?  And I even mentioned that you're entitled to your opinion.  No one is on trial here.  I'd be curious if someone has an 'objective' opinion about who needs to relax.  

[CanadianHalo]

Have all the top pitchers come out and said that they prefer the east coast yet?

[Dtwncbad]

7 hours ago, Dochalo said:

you.  you're being thick.  you asked for an objective opinion on Marsh yet you already know his scouting report?  Why'd you ask then?  And I even mentioned that you're entitled to your opinion.  No one is on trial here.  I'd be curious if someone has an 'objective' opinion about who needs to relax.  

You don’t get it I guess.  There are scouting reports on every player.  We can all see them.  Baseball history says they are often wrong on how players actually turn out.

Do you really think I asked you for his scouting report?  When I used the word “objectively” I was saying let’s keep the discussion unemotional.  The observation of not actually seeing any power from him is not emotional.

Basically I have an opinion and you are telling me I am wrong because of the scouting report.  Wonderful.

Let’s try this again.  In my opinion, an opposing GM will likely prefer to pursue a young player that has already shown the hit for power tool rather than hand away their young controllable arm for a player that projects to develop the skill in their scouting report.

What is thick about that?  Nothing.

Getting annoyed at that and getting uppity that the scouting report says he could develop more power in the future misses the point.

What have you seen in Marsh that assures you the power is there (don’t say the scouting report)?  Anything?  I haven’t seen it.  If the Angels keep him I really really hope he develops some hit for power in his game.

Lastly, people dig up old posts years later for fun.  No, I am not predicting that Marsh will never have power.  He has the frame.  He just has not shown it yet and I believe that probably matters in his trade value today versus another player that has already shown it.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Dtwncbad