Breaking: Alex Cobb TRADED to Angels for Jahmai Jones

[T.G.]

Just now, Junkballer said:

Not a convicted felon.....Yet.

[tdawg87]

3 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

Jsnpritchett said he's assuming the front office is planning on Ohtani not pitching much or at all. He said the six man rotation will be filled with six pitchers other than Ohtani. I said that's ridiculous. They aren't going to leave him without a spot. 2020 obviously makes people doubt whether he can pitch going forward, but he's healthy at the moment. They're obviously planning on him being in the rotation. They have depth ready if he can't go.

Ok so you're saying they will be going into 2021 with the assumption that Ohtani is healthy. I get it now.

[UndertheHalo]

45 minutes ago, Lou said:

And?

I have no other thoughts.  Which is why I didn’t add any.  They’re dang factoids.  

[tdawg87]

3 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I have no other thoughts.  Which is why I didn’t add any.  They’re dang factoids.  

[Docwaukee]

18 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

Jsnpritchett said he's assuming the front office is planning on Ohtani not pitching much or at all. He said the six man rotation will be filled with six pitchers other than Ohtani. I said that's ridiculous. They aren't going to leave him without a spot. 2020 obviously makes people doubt whether he can pitch going forward, but he's healthy at the moment. They're obviously planning on him being in the rotation. They have depth ready if he can't go.

now I've got it.  

I think they're hopeful Ohtani will pitch.  I think the fact that they have 6 other starters on the 26 man roster means they're worried he might not pitch that much.  But yes, if he's healthy, Ohtani will get first crack over anyone.  

[jsnpritchett]

4 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

now I've got it.  

I think they're hopeful Ohtani will pitch.  I think the fact that they have 6 other starters on the 26 man roster means they're worried he might not pitch that much.  But yes, if he's healthy, Ohtani will get first crack over anyone.  

And I agree with the last point and have never said otherwise.

[Angelsjunky]

Fun fact: Over the last three years, 150 pitchers have thrown over 200 innings. Cobb and Barria are tied for 129th-130th with 1.5 fWAR.

Cost of Cobb in 2021: $5M plus Jahmai Jones

Cost of Barria in 2021: $575,000

 

[Docwaukee]

39 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Fun fact: Over the last three years, 150 pitchers have thrown over 200 innings. Cobb and Barria are tied for 129th-130th with 1.5 fWAR.

Cost of Cobb in 2021: $5M plus Jahmai Jones

Cost of Barria in 2021: $575,000

 

I think the cost of Cobb for 2021 will be closer to 2-3m with deferrals.   I was all for getting someone else for like 5-6m that would be as good as Cobb without giving up Jones and I still would have been unless this is the first of other moves.  I'm handicapping that at about 20% right now and that number is dwindling.   

I think it's obvious that Perry and co. didn't think much of Jones future.  and other teams didn't as well.  

I still agree that I have to squint really hard to even get this move from plain dumb into the 'head scratcher' category.  

[Billy_Ball]

[tdawg87]

Yeah, that is an accurate description.

[Inside Pitch]

7 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Cobb get groundball.

Angels infield stop groundball.

Cobb be successful.

GM smart.

[totdprods]

5 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I still agree that I have to squint really hard to even get this move from plain dumb into the 'head scratcher' category

My best guess is still that this was intended more as an insurance move...almost like when we picked up Chris Stratton. There was some underlying data they liked, he was being shopped - it’s possible the Orioles initiated this because they loved Jones or thought Cobb would be useful here, and with Archer signing for $6.5m, perhaps the Angels perhaps were starting to see their insurance/rebound/ST invite-type targets become too pricey for their taste, and Cobb fit into that tier. 

Cobb is cheap enough to be cut or moved to long-relief if he blows in spring or if someone like Barria outguns him for a spot. I also wouldn’t be surprised if Barria was in the pen and used as a swingman, picking up starts to help with Ohtani’s rotation. I know Barria looked awful in the pen before but maybe it was mental and they think it can be overcome

I also really think they’re still shopping for another impact arm (or perhaps Contreras) and realizing it will cost them at least one of Canning, Barria, Suarez, Sandoval, and Detmers, and this stabilizes the back of the rotation if they do indeed go ahead with a deal, but it also isn’t an acquisition that requires them to move someone since, as pointed out, Barria could be just as good as Cobb.

[Warfarin]

9 hours ago, beatlesrule said:

I, like many here, still don't understand this trade. Cobb is no better than than the current SP the Angels already have. Those pitchers; Canning, Barria, Sandoval etc are cheaper too. Trading a semi useful prospect and paying 5 million when a SP could have just been signed for the same price or less that's equally as good as Cobb is a bad move IMO. Oh well.

This is probably largely true, but again, the importance is depth.

In past years, we have cobbled together a rotation with guys on one year deals.  Harvey, Cahill, Teheran, etc.  When those guys flamed out, we didn't really have any quality SP options beyond them, so we were forced to trot out other guys who, likewise, were pretty bad, which has led to gaping holes in our rotation every year.

I fully expect Minasian will sign/acquire another SP.  Yes, it would appear the rotation is crowded, but think of it this way - it is insurance, in case someone is hurt or flames out.  What if Barria reverts back to his 2019 form and gets roasted?  What if Sandoval can't make a leap and pitches like he did last year?  What if Heaney gets hurt again?  What if Canning's elbow issue flares up and he's out again?

There are many questions.  And yes, while Cobb isn't exciting, he has been rather consistent in being an SP4 type starter.  Nothing flashy, but Minasian appears to be stock-piling depth of average pitchers.  And the beauty of the one year deal is if any of them is terrible, we can rather easily move on from them and try the next guy.  And since we will have what, 8-9 SPs or so, there will be options to use.

[tdawg87]

I just can't imagine having to replace 4 pitchers next offseason. Surely they will extend Bundy if they aren't adding anyone else?

Or is the new "philosophy" to fill the rotation with cheap 1-year deals? If that's the case I want off Mr. Bones' Wild Ride because that's pants-on-head ret...stupid.

[Stradling]

I could see a scenario of extending Bundy, where he takes less this year, a trade of Heaney for multiple lower tier prospect arms and then signing Odorizzi or Paxton to a 2-3 year deal and a pen arm. 

[Warfarin]

6 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I think the cost of Cobb for 2021 will be closer to 2-3m with deferrals.   I was all for getting someone else for like 5-6m that would be as good as Cobb without giving up Jones and I still would have been unless this is the first of other moves.  I'm handicapping that at about 20% right now and that number is dwindling.   

I think it's obvious that Perry and co. didn't think much of Jones future.  and other teams didn't as well.  

I still agree that I have to squint really hard to even get this move from plain dumb into the 'head scratcher' category.  

Yeah - it's hard to say what the cost is, but all we know is it's less than 5mil, given deferrals, in today's dollars.  Maybe more like 3-4mil or so.

I don't think this is a great move, but I don't think it's a bad one either.  I saw that the Angels' prospect analyst for Baseball America felt Jones wasn't even a top 20 prospect for the Angels anymore.  Obviously others disagree - others still have him rated higher, but it appears Minasian didn't feel particularly bullish about his future, and perhaps most in the industry felt similarly.  Even though he's blocked as a prospect, Minasian wouldn't have traded him away just because of that in this kind of deal - it likely reflected that he felt he probably was, at best, an up-and-down fringe player.

Anyway, as I've mentioned in other posts, I feel the major reason we acquired Cobb is we are simply trying to stockpile as many arms as possible.  I do think that's important, because we don't have much immediate AAA depth to help out our rotation.

Later in the year, perhaps by the end, Detmers will be an option (in addition to Sandoval and maybe Suarez, who has been crushed rather routinely in his appearances).  I'm doubtful CRod is, simply because he's been injured so much that it's unlikely he will be able to pitch THAT much this year.  

[Warfarin]

5 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

I just can't imagine having to replace 4 pitchers next offseason. Surely they will extend Bundy if they aren't adding anyone else?

Or is the new "philosophy" to fill the rotation with cheap 1-year deals? If that's the case I want off Mr. Bones' Wild Ride because that's pants-on-head ret...stupid.

I think Minasian will extend one of our pending free agents.  It's easy to say Bundy at the moment, given how well he pitched last year, but if he regresses and reverts back to his Baltimore form, then maybe not.

Keep in mind, though, there's the very real looming threat that the 2022 season will either be canceled or very short, as it's difficult to envision the owners and the MLBPA coming to any kind of agreement over the CBA at this point.

[wopphil]

I am okay with this move. The only thing I question is Cobb’s health. But he has been better than his numbers initially suggest. His second half of 2018 was excellent, and he was quite solid last year as well. Last year, the Yankees, Blue Jays, Rays and Red Sox had 4 of the top 6 offenses in the AL, and Cobb faced them in 8 of his 10 starts (and still put up decent numbers).

The salary commitment is low. This is no doubt why the prospect cost was higher than expected. I am sure if Minasian was willing to pay $8-$10 mil of Cobb’s salary the prospect cost would have been lower. But obviously Minasian is working on a tight budget. And while it sounds like Jones has potential, he hasn’t demonstrated much in the minors the last few years. 

 

[Dtwncbad]

I understand the angle that the Angels probably didn’t have to give up a prospect to acquire the likes of Alex Cobb.

But it was Jam Jones.  If you are a utility player away from being a World Series roster, you go get a veteran utility player.

[tdawg87]

4 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Keep in mind, though, there's the very real looming threat that the 2022 season will either be canceled or very short, as it's difficult to envision the owners and the MLBPA coming to any kind of agreement over the CBA at this point.

That's a very good point. I hadn't even considered that.

The GM needs to make the team better now, and for the future. If he's going through the offseason with the assumption there might not be a 2022 season, I think that's dumb. Hell, it could be genius (genious) if the season gets locked out. But if it doesn't? Minasian has to replace 4 starters, a closer, and a catcher. All in one offseason.

[Warfarin]

15 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

That's a very good point. I hadn't even considered that.

The GM needs to make the team better now, and for the future. If he's going through the offseason with the assumption there might not be a 2022 season, I think that's dumb. Hell, it could be genius (genious) if the season gets locked out. But if it doesn't? Minasian has to replace 4 starters, a closer, and a catcher. All in one offseason.

I'm sure he'll fill it out, and I'm guessing he also hopes that we'll see some internal growth such that we can fill at least one or two spots from within (Detmers? Sandoval?  maybe Suarez improves?).  

But moreso my point is the landscape of the MLB might be very different in 2022.  Will there be a luxury tax still?  Will it (finally) be replaced with a salary cap, which in turn means there will be a salary floor?  If so, what is that cap?  Etc .. there is a lot to be determined after the 2021 season, and the new structure may vastly impact how teams operate moving forward.

So in that regard, I doubt we will see any moves of substance next offseason until the CBA agreement is hammered out, which will likely take a long time considering that the two sides can't even agree to add something they both want (the DH), as most FOs will be waiting to see what the future landscape of the MLB will be prior to moving forward. 

[Jay]

[floplag]

10 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

If they sign another SP, they pretty much have to make a trade.  They currently have Bundy, Heaney, Quintana, Cobb, and Canning.  So if they sign another SP without making a trade, they're at 6 starters (without even thinking about Ohtani).  I'm still of the opinion that what you see right now is what you're going to get when it comes to the rotation...But perhaps I'm wrong. 

It would seem clear thats what they are trying to do, dont you think?  They are clearly not wild about FA options. 
The question is who as i dont think many makle sense right now.  Were obviously not taking someones salary dump so...
I keep seeing Col, even before Arrenado.

[floplag]

10 hours ago, Pancake Bear said:

Could be as simple as they want a reliever who costs slightly more and they don't have enough money for another 7-10m starter and whoever they're trying to acquire. But I doubt they're doing nothing else. This deals reeks of opening up payroll space for something else. 

That said, unless they really like Cobb and whoever the other player they are hypothetically targeting is, I can't see them dumping Jones for that. Could be something bigger they're clearing money for. 

Not sure much else makes a lot of sense really at this point.
Its clear they wont bust the budget
Its clear they dont like the FA options
It would seem they acquired Cobb to replace whoever they deal out in trade, in theory anyway.
Lets see where it lands. 

[Torridd]

12 hours ago, beatlesrule said:

Fiers or Shoemaker or Porcello or someone for a few million.

I really wanted Richards back.