Angels sign Jose Quintana (1 year, $8 million)

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

in honor of AW, the Angels new training regiment now includes the 'jump to conclusions' mat.  

.... this is horrible idea

[failos]

Bump

[rageous]

Another one of Angels failed attempt at trying to resuscitate shitty pitchers.

How many millions have they wasted signing these has-beens these last few years?

Quintana, Teheran, Harvey, Allen, and Cahill comes to mind.

DId I miss anyone?

They should have just bit the bullet and signed Ryu instead of going quantity over quality.

 

[aznhockeyguy]

Not sure what happened with Quintana. Loved the signing at the time, but dude looks cooked right now.  Having trouble placing the ball.

[Second Base]

On 1/19/2021 at 10:13 PM, Second Base said:

I'm going to laugh, and cry if after that passionate and logical response, Quintana still end up being Teheran. 

[Erstad Grit]

3 hours ago, failos said:

Bump

Hahaha. But we were idiots for not buying into this dude. I will admit Cobb has been much better than I anticipated. 

[Angelsjunky]

1 hour ago, Erstad Grit said:

Hahaha. But we were idiots for not buying into this dude. I will admit Cobb has been much better than I anticipated. 

And you're saying this based on one start?

But sure, Cobb's first start was solid. But let's see how he looks after four or five.

As of now I'm more worried about Quintana than I'm hyped about Cobb.

[Inside Pitch]

This bump brought to you by the people who wanted to DFA Heaney after his first start.

You may want to wait on the sample size before pounding your chests and claiming to have been right.... then again, some of you are so seldom right its almost understandable.

Now do Upton!

[DMVol]

Frustrating for sure....Quintana seems more like Teheran than Harvey or Cahill...Teheran and Quintana had slipped some and there were concerns that the trajectory was bad with both (obviously why both were relatively cheap)....but their numbers overall weren’t terrible....Harvey and Cahill were wildly inconsistent, totally unpredictable what they would do....

[Lou]

21 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

This bump brought to you by the people who wanted to DFA Heaney after his first start.

You may want to wait on the sample size before pounding your chests and claiming to have been right.... then again, some of you are so seldom right its almost understandable.

Now do Upton!

[Inside Pitch]

4 minutes ago, DMVol said:

Frustrating for sure....Quintana seems more like Teheran than Harvey or Cahill...Teheran and Quintana had slipped some and there were concerns that the trajectory was bad with both (obviously why both were relatively cheap)..

Quintana hasn't had a drop in velocity, hasn't had his bad performances masked by superficial numbers like Teheran.  Teheran is just a really bad comp for Quintana.   I don't know what happened last night other that I finally did see the blown call at 2B -- but it looks like he melted down hard after that and couldn't locate.  If his wobbly command keeps up then I'll worry but otherwise he's being doinked to death and that tends to even out.

[Redondo]

It's the second week in April

A lot more season to go

[DMVol]

28 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Quintana hasn't had a drop in velocity, hasn't had his bad performances masked by superficial numbers like Teheran.  Teheran is just a really bad comp for Quintana.   I don't know what happened last night other that I finally did see the blown call at 2B -- but it looks like he melted down hard after that and couldn't locate.  If his wobbly command keeps up then I'll worry but otherwise he's being doinked to death and that tends to even out.

I guess it depends on how you define a comp. Cahill and Harvey were so all over the place I don’t know how you could predict anything with them.  Teheran and Quintana had never been terrible before we signed them. Teheran may have been lucky (in hindsight, he probably was) but his overall numbers were still pretty good before better we signed him.  I liked signing Teheran better than Quintana but you could argue the ultimate gauge is the market.  The market was right with the concerns about Teheran (and my optimism was misplaced). Obviously there were also concerns about Quintana, hence a relatively cheap contract....COVID year and a bad market for pitchers for sure, so you have to figure that in....I’d just like to see him be what he’s been overall for the last few years....4ish ERA, innings eater, mid to back end of the rotation guy. I hope that’s still in him.

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, DMVol said:

I guess it depends on how you define a comp. Cahill and Harvey were so all over the place I don’t know how you could predict anything with them.  Teheran and Quintana had never been terrible before we signed them. Teheran may have been lucky (in hindsight, he probably was) but his overall numbers were still pretty good before better we signed him.  I liked signing Teheran better than Quintana but you could argue the ultimate gauge is the market.  The market was right with the concerns about Teheran (and my optimism was misplaced). Obviously there were also concerns about Quintana, hence a relatively cheap contract....COVID year and a bad market for pitchers for sure, so you have to figure that in....I’d just like to see him be what he’s been overall for the last few years....4ish ERA, innings eater, mid to back end of the rotation guy. I hope that’s still in him.

Yep, that's all I want too and well, the predictive data says he is still..   Currently he's sporting a .556 Babip -- the league average so far this season is sitting around .290.   That's just plain unlucky.   

His exit velocities have rebounded from where they were last year which was the lone data point that people had concerns with.   His GB% so far this year is 68% which would be a career high.  His K/9 rate is sitting at 16.20 which again would be a career high... his LOB% is sitting at 35% whereas the league is sitting at 70% and his average velocity is sitting at .5 MPH below where it was in 2013 -- so it's been static.   On the negative side his BB/9 is sitting at 12.60.   There is just a ton of small sample noise in ALL those numbers.   He's not going to carry a K rate over 15%, he's not going to carry a GB rate near 70% and he won't be walking more than a batter per inning -- all of those numbers will almost certainly normalize.

Everything seemed to fall apart after what would have been a two outs man on third situation turned into a nobody out, run in, two men on situation.  As a veteran that shouldn't have gotten to him like it did but it is what it is.  All I know is right now the results are nothing short of a fluke.   I'm glad I didn't watch.

[Blarg]

last night the bullpen gave up 8 runs. The previous 9 innings of bullpen relief the Angels have gave up 2. It was a shitty night for the Angels overall, the offense never showed up.

Quintana was crap but had help along the way and the Blue Jays were in a hitting zone as a team. This was a turd flush of a game where even Maddon made up an excuse to get to the bar early. I'm not going to worry about it. 

[Warfarin]

For all of those who are bashing Quintana, as @Inside Pitch pointed out, he has actually been very unlucky.

https://www.fangraphs.com/teams/angels

Check it out - he's currently our 5th best pitcher in terms of fWAR and his FIP is 3.79.

He'll be much better.

Barria, who pitched poorly as well, as a FIP of 9.19 and an fWAR of -0.1, which suggests his poor performance is perhaps more in line with the results that we saw.

[Erstad Grit]

7 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

And you're saying this based on one start?

But sure, Cobb's first start was solid. But let's see how he looks after four or five.

As of now I'm more worried about Quintana than I'm hyped about Cobb.

I'm basing it on Quintana hasn't been good since 2017

[sammyscioscia]

Idk if bapid really concludes how 'lucky' a pitcher is, hitters do have some control on where they hit and drive the ball.  Perhaps hitters are reading the ball well off his release point, which would explain a lot.

[mmc]

16 minutes ago, sammyscioscia said:

Idk if bapid really concludes how 'lucky' a pitcher is, hitters do have some control on where they hit and drive the ball.

It absolutely does

[Docwaukee]

49 minutes ago, sammyscioscia said:

Idk if bapid really concludes how 'lucky' a pitcher is, hitters do have some control on where they hit and drive the ball.  Perhaps hitters are reading the ball well off his release point, which would explain a lot.

Don't really think that's it.  His command is poor so he's getting behind in the count and making it more predictable for the hitters as to what he has to throw in order to find the zone.  He's got a ton of k's so when he keeps his mechanics and pitches ahead, he's really good.  

I think I mentioned in the GDT that my BIL is a big cubs fan and when I told him I was excited at the signing he said that Quintana is solid but will frustrate the crap out of you because he'll go through spells like the one he's in right now where he just seems to lose command even though the stuff is still really good.  

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 hour ago, sammyscioscia said:

Idk if bapid really concludes how 'lucky' a pitcher is, hitters do have some control on where they hit and drive the ball.  Perhaps hitters are reading the ball well off his release point, which would explain a lot.

There is an element of skill in it but it is the most noise-y of pitching statistics.

[Second Base]

28 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

Don't really think that's it.  His command is poor so he's getting behind in the count and making it more predictable for the hitters as to what he has to throw in order to find the zone.  He's got a ton of k's so when he keeps his mechanics and pitches ahead, he's really good.  

I think I mentioned in the GDT that my BIL is a big cubs fan and when I told him I was excited at the signing he said that Quintana is solid but will frustrate the crap out of you because he'll go through spells like the one he's in right now where he just seems to lose command even though the stuff is still really good.  

So he's CJ Wilson minus the upside. Cool. 

[Angel Oracle]

5 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Quintana hasn't had a drop in velocity, hasn't had his bad performances masked by superficial numbers like Teheran.  Teheran is just a really bad comp for Quintana.   I don't know what happened last night other that I finally did see the blown call at 2B -- but it looks like he melted down hard after that and couldn't locate.  If his wobbly command keeps up then I'll worry but otherwise he's being doinked to death and that tends to even out.

17 base runners in 5 innings (10 hits, 7 BBs), but only ONE XBH (double), and NINE Ks

[Second Base]

By the way, in still standing by my original bold prediction, that Cobb will be the Angels third best starter and Quintana, their fifth or sixth. 

[Angel Oracle]

3 minutes ago, Second Base said:

So he's CJ Wilson minus the upside. Cool. 

There is a similarity.   Nibs also gave up a lower than average number of XBHs and creates lots of hitters counts.

Edited April 11, 2021 by Angel Oracle