Astros accused of high-tech sign-stealing scheme during 2017 championship season

[ukyah]

10 hours ago, Blarg said:

I really doubt there will be player suspensions. MLB wants them to come clean but it would impossible to suspend a roster that included guys called up for short stints to cover injuries and players that moved on. They cheated as a team but it was under the rule of their management.

You can clean house of the coaching staff and that has to happen. You can clean house of the executives involved and anyone involved in the technology end. If a connection to ownership is established the franchise rights can be revoked and the team sold.

But you can't really suspend the over 60 players that have filtered in and out of the Astros organization over the last 3 years. There is no practical method.

this can't happen because it tells the players there is no punishment for them for participating in cheating. if the only punishments are handed down to front office employees, then field employees are given carte blanche.

[Troll Daddy]

1 hour ago, ukyah said:

this can't happen because it tells the players there is no punishment for them for participating in cheating. if the only punishments are handed down to front office employees, then field employees are given carte blanche.

Do you happen to know which players used any illegal information? 

[Pancake Bear]

11 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

Do you happen to know which players used any illegal information? 

All of them knew. At least in 2017. For later years, it depends what method they used. Might’ve kept it quieter. 

[Stradling]

24 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

Do you happen to know which players used any illegal information? 

Do you happen to know if Shoeless Joe threw the World Series?

[tdawg87]

6 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Do you happen to know if Shoeless Joe three the World Series?

No but he definitely two it.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

18 hours ago, Lou said:

Teams have grown so paranoid of Houston's alleged sign-stealing that the Washington Nationals reportedly used five sign sequences for pitchers during the 2019 World Series.

Apparently Washington had an idea that this was going on before it became a national news story.

[ukyah]

4 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

Do you happen to know which players used any illegal information? 

my point isn't about players by name. it's about those found to be involved.

[Docwaukee]

5 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

Do you happen to know which players used any illegal information? 

I don't, but I hope that mlb does it's due diligence in finding out and punishes them appropriately.  

Do you think that if there is clear evidence that a player cheated, they should be suspended?  

If you don't suspend a player for cheating, why bother with drug testing and penalties for using PEDs?  

[Troll Daddy]

40 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I don't, but I hope that mlb does it's due diligence in finding out and punishes them appropriately.  

Do you think that if there is clear evidence that a player cheated, they should be suspended?  

If you don't suspend a player for cheating, why bother with drug testing and penalties for using PEDs?  

You won’t find clear evidence imo. Just because they had knowledge doesn’t mean they cheated individually. You can argue this all you want  ... unless a player admits using information your case is flimsy imo. 

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

You won’t find clear evidence imo. Just because they had knowledge doesn’t mean they cheated individually. You can argue this all you want  ... unless a player admits using information your case is flimsy imo. 

really?  a video of a guy getting a signal from the dugout while they're at the plate isn't evidence?  

btw, there isn't a jury trial or a legal standard for proof required beyond a reasonable doubt.  MLB has jurisdiction to draw their own conclusions based on the information they have available.  And you can damn well bet that the canaries are signing left and right at this point.  We'll see how they treat the individual players and you might be right that they get off easy.  I sure hope they don't.  In fact, I would like to even see them punish guys on the team that knew and said nothing even if they didn't participate.  I know that's not likely but I'd be fine with it.  Even if it meant that Cole had to sit out the first 10 games of the years. 

[Troll Daddy]

16 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

really?  a video of a guy getting a signal from the dugout while they're at the plate isn't evidence?  

btw, there isn't a jury trial or a legal standard for proof required beyond a reasonable doubt.  MLB has jurisdiction to draw their own conclusions based on the information they have available.  And you can damn well bet that the canaries are signing left and right at this point.  We'll see how they treat the individual players and you might be right that they get off easy.  I sure hope they don't.  In fact, I would like to even see them punish guys on the team that knew and said nothing even if they didn't participate.  I know that's not likely but I'd be fine with it.  Even if it meant that Cole had to sit out the first 10 games of the years. 

It’s evidence they’re getting signs but there’s no evidence what was done with the information ... maybe the player ignored it.

You do realize the Angels are under investigation too ... are the canaries singing left and right? Btw this does involve all the players since five of them were exposed already.

This is getting stupid no need to reply. 

 

 

[Docwaukee]

10 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

It’s evidence they’re getting signs but there’s no evidence what was done with the information ... maybe the player ignored it.

You do realize the Angels are under investigation too ... are the canaries singing left and right? Btw this does involve all the players since five of them were exposed already.

This is getting stupid no need to reply. 

 

 

you claiming that there's no evidence to implicate individual players is stupid.  Whether they punish them individually is a totally different story.  

[Troll Daddy]

4 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

you claiming that there's no evidence to implicate individual players is stupid.  Whether they punish them individually is a totally different story.  

Like I said ... maybe said player ignored the information. Okay 

[Lou]

49 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

You do realize the Angels are under investigation too

link?

[Lou]

On 11/22/2019 at 11:09 PM, Lou said:

The league is asking players in the organization about a variety of sign-stealing techniques, including buzzing Band-Aid-like wearable stickers,

wtf? 

[Inside Pitch]

54 minutes ago, RBM said:

The call for player punishments like the 1919 Black Sox is flawed. It’s a different time and place. No players are going to be banned for life. Manfred doesn’t have the balls that Landis did. Players have more power now and the MLB doesn’t want to weather that storm. There is too much money on the line for the owners and the players union. I think you’ll see penalties to the teams and front office suspensions but just slaps on the wrists to any players. Manfred needs to act now, set a precedent and move on.  

I don't think players need to be banned for there to be a Landis level response.  I also doubt Manfred has the nads to go there.  But this is about a good a time as ever to invoke Landis' "best interest of baseball" clause...

 

[AngelsLakersFan]

9 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

Like I said ... maybe said player ignored the information. Okay 

Impossible. You can’t unhear your teammates banging on the trash can every time a slider is coming.

[Tank]

7 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

I don't think players need to be banned for there to be a Landis level response.  I also doubt Manfred has the nads to go there.  But this is about a good a time as ever to invoke Landis' "best interest of baseball" clause...

agreed. I don't think the players who participated in this should be allowed to walk away scott free. what's a fair punishment for them is up for debate, but I think it should be something more than a fine.

[Dick B Back]

All I know is that the new bobblehead is available.

 

[Troll Daddy]

15 hours ago, Lou said:

link?

Are you under the assumption that MLB doesn’t care and everything has been swept under the rug? You’re good with links, right

[Lou]

20 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

Are you under the assumption that MLB doesn’t care and everything has been swept under the rug? You’re good with links, right

so nothing, eh? 

[Troll Daddy]

30 minutes ago, Lou said:

so nothing, eh? 

Yea you’re right 

[Tank]

[T.G.]

Fascinating insight...

 

https://newrepublic.com/article/155863/houston-astros-cheaters-2017-world-series-mckinsey-problem

[yk9001]

3 hours ago, True Grich said:

Fascinating insight...

 

https://newrepublic.com/article/155863/houston-astros-cheaters-2017-world-series-mckinsey-problem

As documented in the Taubman incident, they are as soulless as nazi stormtroopers