THE Official 2019-2020 Hot Stove Thread

[Bill Neftleberg]

7 minutes ago, Drink More Yakult said:

Lol at using Eovaldi against Eppler. That contract is a point in Eppler’s favor and evidence that it’s probably not smart to drop a huge amount on non elite pitchers. Wheeler was offered more money by the White Sox so it would have taken more than 120, and taken us out on Cole most likely. Wheeler is probably regretting signing so early, he’d get 5/150 if he waited until after Strasburg and Cole.

But yeah, Corbin was a definite miss in hindsight.

agreed, having Watched Wheelers every start. lets just put it this way,  Im glad my mets gave DeGrom his contract and not Wheeler. he might be better in Philly, but not 150M better

[Jay]

4 hours ago, Lou said:

I still can't believe someone would actually think Anthony Rendon is a luxury. I'm flabbergasted.

Thank you for checking in, Mrs. Rendon.

 

[Wisconsin27]

47 minutes ago, Second Base said:

I think there's a lot that could've happened. Corbin last year at 127 million, the pitching needs were already apparent back then, why not 150? Eovaldi too (I understand it didn't look good last year for Boston, I'm just making a point that he was outbid). Wheeler preferred the East Coast, but at 115 million, I'm sure if Eppler had bid 120, they would've been saying how much they love the West Coast.

I don't blame Eppler for Cole. 324 million on him is utter insanity. But I don't think you talk about going all in only to allow Bundy and Teheran to be your "all in". It's ridiculous. The amount Strasburg got was also too rich for my blood. 

But losing out on both Kyle Gibson and Michael Pineda was brutal, particularly when you consider how little they signed for. Keuchel and Bumgarner, I was fine not getting in on. They both are overpaid in my opinion. Ryu's contract fell right on line with what was expected, and the Angels should've been all over that, especially considering he was the last upside pitcher left on the market.

And then combine that with his overall draft strategy. Eppler simply doesn't invest top draft picks or high international bonus slots on pitching. The best pitching prospects the Angels have had in a long time was Griffin Canning, and he fell to the second round over health concerns, but was a top end first round talent. But typically, he doesn't draft pitchers until at least the third round, and then he buys in bulk.

This year, Jackson Rutledge was there for the taking in the first round. He was exactly what the farm needed, a collegiate arm with upside. And instead he took a low upside middle infielder, playing positions that the Angels are already stacked at. The end result is he failed to address a major need and Wilson is shipped off almost immediately when  they realize who he is and isn't.

He looks like he might have won the lottery on Kochanowicz, but we'll see. But when an oft injured Chris Rodriguez, a control deficient Jose Soriano, and a kid that hasn't thrown a single professional inning in Kochanowicz are your top pitching prospects, there's something terribly wrong. I applaud his acquisition of Patrick Sandoval though.

So when you add it all together, Corbin, Wheeler, Eovaldi, Gibson, Pineda, Ryu, lack of pitching prospects with upside, it paints a clearer picture. The way Billy Eppler values pitching in comparison to the rest of baseball is flat out wrong, and is negatively impact this team, and ultimately might cost him his job because he's failed to properly invest in pitching, which had resulted in four consecutive losing seasons. 

Sorry for the long winded response, but I felt it was necessary to articulate my feelings about pitching. 

 

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No, thanks for the details.  There are a number of guys who post regularly that I really appreciate and you are one of them, so I appreciate your insight.

After reading your reply, I better understand you disdain for Eppler.  I hadn't realized it was related so much to his choices on drafting.  I was thinking you were peeved about this year's free agency.  I knew from your prior posts you weren't excited about Keuchel or MadBum (for the record, I'm not either, especially Baumgarner).  Like you, I would have jumped for joy had they been able to lure Wheeler here for more than he actually signed for.  I'm just not sure he could have been persuaded and it's important to note that Billy was likely saving his chips thinking he was truly a player for Cole at that time.  

I understand your favorites were Pineda and Gibson.  I'm not as sold on them as you are, but I get that had he signed one or both, you would have felt better about him.  Your biggest disappointment is not getting Ryu and we share that sentiment.  That said, half this board wanted little to do with him at that price (given his age/durability).  

We can look back at Corbin/Eovaldi with hindsight, but I'm not sure that is totally fair (I admittedly had optimism about some of the guys he did sign last year) AND we have little idea what kind of financial constraints he was or wasn't under at that time.  Personally, I think there is a reason everyone he signed was for one-year only.  He's been in contract hell and this is the first year he's been able to hand out a sizeable, long-term contract to a free agent.

I take your  word for it with regards to the draft.  Most of what I learn/know is from you and a handful of others anyway.  Not having a stronger group of arms this far into his tenure does seem very negligent.  I have been drinking so much Koolaid on the prospects that have brought us from the deep that I hadn't looked at it through the "pitching only" lense.  I have obviously given Eppler too much credit in the "farm rebuild" side of things in that regard, so thanks.

 

[Lou]

so now pointing out that trading for crappy JA Happ and pointing out that Hofstra isn't a top-ranked school is bullying? 

man up, Elliot Ness. 

[Lou]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Thank you for checking in, Mrs. Rendon.

 

this makes no sense 

[Docwaukee]

1 minute ago, Lou said:

this makes no sense 

bully

[Lou]

7 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

bully

say uncle!

LOUDER!!!

[Inside Pitch]

[beatlesrule]

[ten ocho recon scout]

8 hours ago, RBM said:

Tiger!

Second deadliest shark.... roughly the same size as a great white.... take note of how shallow the water is....

Happy new year!

[Tank]

13 hours ago, eligrba said:

Angel fans assume every pitcher on the team either has an injury or is about to have an injury.  No need to talk about the obvious.

it's simply an eventuality.

[tdawg87]

[Tank]

7 hours ago, Bill Neftleberg said:

compared to you and lou, im the Smartest man in the World

go play with your tinkertoys and legos

 

[T.G.]

Only one kind of bullying is allowed...

 

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

7 hours ago, Drink More Yakult said:

Wheeler is probably regretting signing so early, he’d get 5/150 if he waited until after Strasburg and Cole.

I never thought of that until reading it here. Good point. Maybe his agent thought it would be better to sign first, as the big spenders would get cole/strass etc, and his market would shrink?

But he definitely could have gotten more had he waited.

[Pancake Bear]

3 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

I never thought of that until reading it here. Good point. Maybe his agent thought it would be better to sign first, as the big spenders would get cole/strass etc, and his market would shrink?

But he definitely could have gotten more had he waited.

I think he ended up where he wanted to be. Would Philly have paid more for him later? 

[ten ocho recon scout]

25 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

I think he ended up where he wanted to be. Would Philly have paid more for him later? 

Maybe he did just want to play there. And CWS offered more. But he could have potentially really gotten paid. (More than he did)

[stormngt]

16 hours ago, Stradling said:

Also it’s not even January yet. 

How often do I have to say I am hoping he adds more?  I concede he may improve team and that its early!

[stormngt]

16 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

How were we lied to mang ? We offered Cole something like 290 million.  We apparently were in on Wheeler.  They pull down Rendon on a huge contract.  Everyone wishes there was more going on with an exciting new guy in the rotation.  It hasn’t worked out.  But they have been in the game this offseaon and they did win a pretty great prize.  We’ll see if there’s anything else.  I wouldn’t set my heart on it,  but let’s just let it play out.   
 

and even if this is it.  I mean it’s not that bad. 

You completley missed the context of string of conversation.  I was responding to those who said we reached our financial limit with the signing of Rendon and we needed to dump Cozarts contract in order to make room for his contract. I even mentioned our offer to Cole was higher than Rendon.

[Stradling]

5 minutes ago, stormngt said:

You completley missed the context of string of conversation.  I was responding to those who said we reached our financial limit with the signing of Rendon and we needed to dump Cozarts contract in order to make room for his contract. I even mentioned our offer to Cole was higher than Rendon.

It’s annual payroll.  So the annual payroll for Cole was within a million or two of what Rendon got paid.  

[stormngt]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

It’s annual payroll.  So the annual payroll for Cole was within a million or two of what Rendon got paid.  

Excuses Excuses!

I have been a supporter of Eppler his entire time because Dipshito left the farm barron and and the team cash strapped.

Last two off season the public narrative is that we will spend money to improve.  Last year was a disaster.  This year is to be determined.  However I am tired of the excuses.  

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, stormngt said:

Excuses Excuses!

I have been a supporter of Eppler his entire time because Dipshito left the farm barron and and the team cash strapped.

Last two off season the public narrative is that we will spend money to improve.  Last year was a disaster.  This year is to be determined.  However I am tired of the excuses.  

Ok dude.  I am not giving you excuses, just calling you out for being really fucking stupid with this shit.  You somehow think because they offered $290 plus million over 8 years to Cole and they only signed Rendon to $245 million over 7 years that there is money still to be spent because there is a $45 million difference.  None of this is the Angels lying to you and making you a victim, it is simply you had a thought in your head and your thought was wrong and now you’ve been wronged.  

[AngelStew43]

I am looking forward to a full season from Canning and Sandoval.  If we can get that, all arguments about pitching would be moot.  

Heaney

Canning

Bundy

Ohtani

Sandoval

Teheran

I admit, it doesn't scare anyone now, but if they are all healthy, it is competitive.

 

[stormngt]

4 hours ago, Stradling said:

Ok dude.  I am not giving you excuses, just calling you out for being really fucking stupid with this shit.  You somehow think because they offered $290 plus million over 8 years to Cole and they only signed Rendon to $245 million over 7 years that there is money still to be spent because there is a $45 million difference.  None of this is the Angels lying to you and making you a victim, it is simply you had a thought in your head and your thought was wrong and now you’ve been wronged.  

I can see why people are beginning to call you a bully.  You have turned into an asshole.  I make valid points.  Eppler has done a piss poor job improving the pitching.  I contend we could have afford Rendon without giving up Wilson.  Cozart was only for one more year.  We could have eaten his contract and still signed Rendon.

It's time for you to calm down and quit disrespecting everybody!

 

[hangin n wangin]