THE Official 2019-2020 Hot Stove Thread

[stormngt]

2 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Why are you asking me?   Send Arte a sternly worded letter demanding to know why we traded a guy you knew nothing about and why he said he was going to raise payroll.   But, basic logic.... When they made that trade both Rendon and Cole were on the table.. one of those guys went somewhere else and the guy they did sign is owed 245 million dollars ....more importantly, as I said in the post you responded to..   It may just be that he's trying to stay within whatever budget he's been given and is saving space for a potential addition of salary.  Time will tell.  If you want a more definitive answer you best ask someone actually in the know.

Obviously the answer isnt clear.  If we weren't spending the money saved by Cozart we should have never traded him!  And I am not accepting the logic that signing Rendon busted our budget.  Cole was offered a lot more.

[Stradling]

Just now, stormngt said:

Obviously the answer isnt clear.  If we weren't spending the money saved by Cozart we should have never traded him!  And I am not accepting the logic that signing Rendon busted our budget.  Cole was offered a lot more.

We spent it

[Bill Neftleberg]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

This makes you cool.

This makes you a pussy. 

in your opinion, but to me its just more evidence of you being a bully

[Stradling]

By a lot more you mean a million more a year

[stormngt]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

The money has been spent.  And more money will be spent.

More money maybe spent.  That is probable.   However I am not buying the narrative that signing Rendon busted our budget.  We offered cole more money.

Granted things may change but right now trading Wilson looks like a stupid move.  Let's see what rest of the off season brings.

[Stradling]

Calling another grown man a bully is adorable. 

[Second Base]

42 minutes ago, Wisconsin27 said:

Second, I have enjoyed your posts for a long, long time.  You keep stating how you are disappointed in Eppler with regards to the SP market this summer.  While everyone is disappointed we didn't land a top tier pitcher or two, I would like to know what you would have liked Eppler to do.  We know of the four who were never coming here.  Would you have liked him to outbid the contracts for Ryu and/or Keuchel or are you referring to not pursuing the Homer Bailey's of the world?

I'm just wondering who some of the guys are you have in mind when you express your disappointment in Eppler.

 

 

 

 

 

I think there's a lot that could've happened. Corbin last year at 127 million, the pitching needs were already apparent back then, why not 150? Eovaldi too (I understand it didn't look good last year for Boston, I'm just making a point that he was outbid). Wheeler preferred the East Coast, but at 115 million, I'm sure if Eppler had bid 120, they would've been saying how much they love the West Coast.

I don't blame Eppler for Cole. 324 million on him is utter insanity. But I don't think you talk about going all in only to allow Bundy and Teheran to be your "all in". It's ridiculous. The amount Strasburg got was also too rich for my blood. 

But losing out on both Kyle Gibson and Michael Pineda was brutal, particularly when you consider how little they signed for. Keuchel and Bumgarner, I was fine not getting in on. They both are overpaid in my opinion. Ryu's contract fell right on line with what was expected, and the Angels should've been all over that, especially considering he was the last upside pitcher left on the market.

And then combine that with his overall draft strategy. Eppler simply doesn't invest top draft picks or high international bonus slots on pitching. The best pitching prospects the Angels have had in a long time was Griffin Canning, and he fell to the second round over health concerns, but was a top end first round talent. But typically, he doesn't draft pitchers until at least the third round, and then he buys in bulk.

This year, Jackson Rutledge was there for the taking in the first round. He was exactly what the farm needed, a collegiate arm with upside. And instead he took a low upside middle infielder, playing positions that the Angels are already stacked at. The end result is he failed to address a major need and Wilson is shipped off almost immediately when  they realize who he is and isn't.

He looks like he might have won the lottery on Kochanowicz, but we'll see. But when an oft injured Chris Rodriguez, a control deficient Jose Soriano, and a kid that hasn't thrown a single professional inning in Kochanowicz are your top pitching prospects, there's something terribly wrong. I applaud his acquisition of Patrick Sandoval though.

So when you add it all together, Corbin, Wheeler, Eovaldi, Gibson, Pineda, Ryu, lack of pitching prospects with upside, it paints a clearer picture. The way Billy Eppler values pitching in comparison to the rest of baseball is flat out wrong, and is negatively impact this team, and ultimately might cost him his job because he's failed to properly invest in pitching, which had resulted in four consecutive losing seasons. 

Sorry for the long winded response, but I felt it was necessary to articulate my feelings about pitching. 

Edited December 31, 2019 by Second Base

[Bill Neftleberg]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

i dont care if you are an FBI agent Stradling, I still dont cower to bullies.

[Stradling]

Just now, Bill Neftleberg said:

i dont care if you are an FBI agent Stradling, I still dont cower to bullies.

I don’t call other men bullies.  

[UndertheHalo]

7 minutes ago, Bill Neftleberg said:

that it does but i think there are exceptions,

if youve got a very deep farm system where youre going to lose players in the rule 5 draft otherwise , I dont see much of a problem using prospects your likely to lose anyway to help your luxury tax situation, giving up a first round pick is rather extreme however, so I grant you do have a point

Well also, the Angels are definitely not so deep that they really need to be worried about the guys they’re exposing in the rule 5 draft.  I get that there are people who don’t think much of Wilson.  He seems to profile as a typical high floor, low ceiling type of college bat.  But who knows he could be better.  We won’t know anyway.  At least not to our benefit (or otherwise).  But that aside, he was still probably a top 10 guy in our system.  And let’s face it.  The Giants liked him enough to cough up 13 million.  They sure as shit don’t give a damn about Zach Cozart.  You’re never going to get teams to cough up money for genuinely trash prospects.  Wilson is a useful asset.  Which is why this whole thing happened in the first place.  And also why he was drafted 15th overall.  

Edited December 31, 2019 by UndertheHalo

[stormngt]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

We spent it

Then we were lied to about how aggressive we were going to be in FA.

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, stormngt said:

Then we were lied to about how aggressive we were going to be in FA.

What did they say they were going to spend?   

[Stradling]

Also it’s not even January yet. 

[Bill Neftleberg]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

I don’t call other men bullies.  

thats fine, you just act like one, I get it

[Stradling]

Just now, Bill Neftleberg said:

thats fine, you just act like one, I get it

Ok missy.  Sorry you are sensitive and struggle to handle differing opinions. Quick reminder you are a NY fan and came here, so forgive us if we call you out for trolling and ignorance.  Hofstra did the win, Unless it’s sports or education. 

[UndertheHalo]

6 minutes ago, stormngt said:

Then we were lied to about how aggressive we were going to be in FA.

How were we lied to mang ? We offered Cole something like 290 million.  We apparently were in on Wheeler.  They pull down Rendon on a huge contract.  Everyone wishes there was more going on with an exciting new guy in the rotation.  It hasn’t worked out.  But they have been in the game this offseaon and they did win a pretty great prize.  We’ll see if there’s anything else.  I wouldn’t set my heart on it,  but let’s just let it play out.   
 

and even if this is it.  I mean it’s not that bad. 

Edited December 31, 2019 by UndertheHalo

[Bill Neftleberg]

2 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Well also, the Angels are definitely not so deep that they really need to be worried about the guys they’re exposing in the rule 5 draft.  I get that there are people who don’t think much of Wilson.  He  seems to profile as a typical high floor, low ceiling type of college bat most likely.  But who knows.  We won’t know anyway.  At least not to our benefit.   But that aside, he was still probably a top 10 guy in our system.  And let’s face it.  The Giants liked him enough to cough up 13 million.  They sure as shit don’t give a damn about Zach Cozart.  You’re never going to get teams to cough up money for genuinely trash prospects.  Wilson is a useful asset.  

yes i agree, i really wasnt agreeing with that particular move, I was just pointing out that in certain situations it is a tool that can be used

at the time it certainly was a head scratcher

If and I do mean if, because we dont know, but if it was the difference in landing rendon or not, I really cant complain

[UndertheHalo]

1 minute ago, Bill Neftleberg said:

yes i agree, i really wasnt agreeing with that particular move, I was just pointing out that in certain situations it is a tool that can be used

at the time it certainly was a head scratcher

If and I do mean if, because we dont know, but if it was the difference in landing rendon or not, I really cant complain

I mean for sure.  But I suspect it wasn’t the difference. 

[Bill Neftleberg]

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Ok missy.  Sorry you are sensitive and struggle to handle differing opinions. Quick reminder you are a NY fan and came here, so forgive us if we call you out for trolling and ignorance.  Hofstra did the win, Unless it’s sports or education. 

 

no i came here with a suggestion, seeing that you needed pitching and I suggested happ because he would come FREE AND LIKELY EVEN SUBSIDIZED,  and you mocked me. you could have said hes not what we're looking for, and that would be fine,

I just called you what you are

and now youre upset you were outed

[m0nkey]

5 hours ago, True Grich said:

Some of you need to look at a calendar.

Happy new year!

[Bill Neftleberg]

8 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I mean for sure.  But I suspect it wasn’t the difference. 

a fair take, i mean 12M as opposed to 245M

i think both of us agree that the money would have been better spent on Madbum, Ryu and Donaldson, but thats hindsight

[failos]

2 hours ago, Bill Neftleberg said:

youre stuck with them RBM.

i dont want them, both of them are like Dog Turds on my shoe

I was just reporting what was said

 

[Inside Pitch]

3 hours ago, stormngt said:

More money maybe spent.  That is probable.   However I am not buying the narrative that signing Rendon busted our budget.  We offered cole more money.

Granted things may change but right now trading Wilson looks like a stupid move.  Let's see what rest of the off season brings.

They offered him more years.... But more per year???? Has the actual dollar figure per year been made public?

[Bill Neftleberg]

10 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

They offered him more years.... But more per year???? Has the actually dollar figure per year been made public?

ive looked the only thing reported was on MLB

they said the yankees went 324

the dodgers 8/300

and the Angels 8/297

but i dont think it mattered being a met fan in NY,  after they publically came out, they would have offered 500M if they had to. its what they do

you cant blame the Angels for Cole

 

 

[Drink More Yakult]

30 minutes ago, Second Base said:

I think there's a lot that could've happened. Corbin last year at 127 million, the pitching needs were already apparent back then, why not 150? Eovaldi too (I understand it didn't look good last year for Boston, I'm just making a point that he was outbid). Wheeler preferred the East Coast, but at 115 million, I'm sure if Eppler had bid 120, they would've been saying how much they love the West Coast.

I don't blame Eppler for Cole. 324 million on him is utter insanity. But I don't think you talk about going all in only to allow Bundy and Teheran to be your "all in". It's ridiculous. The amount Strasburg got was also too rich for my blood. 

But losing out on both Kyle Gibson and Michael Pineda was brutal, particularly when you consider how little they signed for. Keuchel and Bumgarner, I was fine not getting in on. They both are overpaid in my opinion. Ryu's contract fell right on line with what was expected, and the Angels should've been all over that, especially considering he was the last upside pitcher left on the market.

And then combine that with his overall draft strategy. Eppler simply doesn't invest top draft picks or high international bonus slots on pitching. The best pitching prospects the Angels have had in a long time was Griffin Canning, and he fell to the second round over health concerns, but was a top end first round talent. But typically, he doesn't draft pitchers until at least the third round, and then he buys in bulk.

This year, Jackson Rutledge was there for the taking in the first round. He was exactly what the farm needed, a collegiate arm with upside. And instead he took a low upside middle infielder, playing positions that the Angels are already stacked at. The end result is he failed to address a major need and Wilson is shipped off almost immediately when  they realize who he is and isn't.

He looks like he might have won the lottery on Kochanowicz, but we'll see. But when an oft injured Chris Rodriguez, a control deficient Jose Soriano, and a kid that hasn't thrown a single professional inning in Kochanowicz are your top pitching prospects, there's something terribly wrong. I applaud his acquisition of Patrick Sandoval though.

So when you add it all together, Corbin, Wheeler, Eovaldi, Gibson, Pineda, Ryu, lack of pitching prospects with upside, it paints a clearer picture. The way Billy Eppler values pitching in comparison to the rest of baseball is flat out wrong, and is negatively impact this team, and ultimately might cost him his job because he's failed to properly invest in pitching, which had resulted in four consecutive losing seasons. 

Sorry for the long winded response, but I felt it was necessary to articulate my feelings about pitching. 

Lol at using Eovaldi against Eppler. That contract is a point in Eppler’s favor and evidence that it’s probably not smart to drop a huge amount on non elite pitchers. Wheeler was offered more money by the White Sox so it would have taken more than 120, and taken us out on Cole most likely. Wheeler is probably regretting signing so early, he’d get 5/150 if he waited until after Strasburg and Cole.

But yeah, Corbin was a definite miss in hindsight.