THE Official 2019-2020 Hot Stove Thread

[Stradling]

11 minutes ago, stormngt said:

I can see why people are beginning to call you a bully.  You have turned into an asshole.  I make valid points.  Eppler has done a piss poor job improving the pitching.  I contend we could have afford Rendon without giving up Wilson.  Cozart was only for one more year.  We could have eaten his contract and still signed Rendon.

It's time for you to calm down and quit disrespecting everybody!

 

Ok hypocrite.  Once again you keep pretending they haven’t spent money.   You also claimed they lied to us.  Those are you problems because it certainly isn’t reality.  You can call me whatever you want.  You’ve turned from being misguided to whatever this version of you is.  So enjoy being a victim.  I’ll enjoy having grown men call me a bully. 

[Stradling]

List of guys to call me a bully, Claude, Bill N and Storm.  Congrats storm.  

[Stradling]

Oh and Happy New Year!

[UndertheHalo]

I wonder if a care bear stare would work on all the bad vibes in this thread.  Worth a shot I say. 
 

 

[Stradling]

I have no bad vibes, just tired of the dumb.  

[UndertheHalo]

I just want to try and have a clear idea here.  So are you guys that are upset about how it’s gone this offseason going to say that the Angels would be better off having signed say, Keuchel and Ryu instead of Rendon ? 
 

it seems to me that we took our shot at Wheeler and Cole and missed.  So to me the alternative to Rendon is Keuchel and Ryu.  Or one of them.  Is that what the position is ?  
 

I get frustration about not getting Cole or Wheeler and I’ve said a bunch of times that I think it’s pretty regrettable that we didn’t get Corbin last year.  Im just not really sure what being upset about these other guys is about.  
 

also, I just wanted to use the care bear gif. 

Edited January 1, 2020 by UndertheHalo

[AngelsLakersFan]

3 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

I just want to try and have a clear idea here.  So are you guys that are upset about how it’s gone this offseason going to say that the Angels would be better off having signed say, Keuchel and Ryu instead of Rendon ? 
 

it seems to me that we took our shot at Wheeler and Cole and missed.  So to me the alternative to Rendon is Keuchel and Ryu.  Or one of them.  Is that what the position is ?  
 

I get frustration about not getting Cole or Wheeler and I’ve said a bunch of times that I think it’s pretty regrettable that we didn’t get Corbin last year.  Im just not really sure what being upset about these other guys is about.  
 

also, I just wanted to use the care bear gif. 

I have been a little critical of Eppler this off season because of his inability to adequately address the pitching situation BUT there are a lot of points in his favor. Most specifically he has add a long term piece in Rendon who is a fantastic bet to remain a major contributor to this team for years to come.

Yes we still need pitching but I'm not sure guys like Ryu and Keuchel were the players we wanted to hitch ourselves to for the next four years.

Whoever Eppler spent his money on this winter was going to be who we count on to provide value for the next few years. There aren't really going to be any big FA splashes moving forward and I for one am glad we are going to be counting on Rendon producing four years from now than counting down the days until Ryu's contract comes off the books.

 

[stormngt]

4 hours ago, Stradling said:

Ok hypocrite.  Once again you keep pretending they haven’t spent money.   You also claimed they lied to us.  Those are you problems because it certainly isn’t reality.  You can call me whatever you want.  You’ve turned from being misguided to whatever this version of you is.  So enjoy being a victim.  I’ll enjoy having grown men call me a bully. 

"Enjoy being a victim"?  Where the hell did that come from.

Interesting you say the money has been "spent" and " we have "reached our budget" yet you say "its early and we will spmesome else before season"

Which one is it?  Are we out of money or will spend more later?  You cant be both ways.

If you weren't such a bitter douche to everyone you may slow down and read more clearly you would realize that my criticism is all based on the narrative "that we are done soending".  You too much being pissed off to realize that I agree with you on that we will spend more money!

BTW if you are going to call me a hypocrite please explain where I take one position and then act out the opposite!  

[Inside Pitch]

3 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

Also, I just wanted to use the care bear gif. 

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, stormngt said:

"Enjoy being a victim"?  Where the hell did that come from.

Interesting you say the money has been "spent" and " we have "reached our budget" yet you say "its early and we will spmesome else before season"

Which one is it?  Are we out of money or will spend more later?  You cant be both ways.

If you weren't such a bitter douche to everyone you may slow down and read more clearly you would realize that my criticism is all based on the narrative "that we are done soending".  You too much being pissed off to realize that I agree with you on that we will spend more money!

BTW if you are going to call me a hypocrite please explain where I take one position and then act out the opposite!  

What’s more interesting is when you misquote me.  I never said we reached our budget.  So that makes the rest of your post something that is in your head, again.  I am not even pissed, you are incapable of pissing me off, I just think you have been ridiculous in this thread, so I called you out for it.  You and the “they are lying to us” (which is where the victim shit came from).  Happy New Year Storm, you beautiful human being.  

[Lou]

Happy New Year!

[Blarg]

On 12/31/2019 at 3:47 PM, Bill Neftleberg said:

no i came here with a suggestion, seeing that you needed pitching and I suggested happ because he would come FREE AND LIKELY EVEN SUBSIDIZED

Free or subsidized garbage doesn't help. Your suggestion was to solve the Yankees problem, not the Angels. 

[Lou]

I'd suggest staying away from ESPN.....

Don Larsen has died. 

[Stradling]

5 minutes ago, Lou said:

I'd suggest staying away from ESPN.....

Don Larsen has died. 

[Docwaukee]

just because the Angels were willing to take payroll up above 200m for Gerrit Cole, doesn't mean that's something they'd be willing to do for Ryu or anyone else.  They're already above where they've ever been and my guess is that they'll still add a bit.  

plus, when you're forced to pivot off your primary target, it doesn't mean you like any of the secondary options automatically.  

there are very rarely premier players available and we got one of them and almost got another.  

you've really got to look at where our true sweet spot might be.  over the next 5-6 years is it 2020 and 2021, because that's where adding a Ryu, Madbum or Keuchel really helps you.  But the aftermath of that is then you're stuck with back loaded money of 20+m per year to work around in 2022 and beyond when ohtani and fletcher are arb 2 and 1, buttrey is an arb 1, and guys like Canning, Sandoval, Adell and Marsh will be entering their 3 or 4th year of being in the majors.  

Granted, you don't punt the next two year but don't hurt yourself for the 3 years after that unless you know you're getting that premier/elite player.  

[Second Base]

44 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Free or subsidized garbage doesn't help. Your suggestion was to solve the Yankees problem, not the Angels. 

BINGO!

[Second Base]

5 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

just because the Angels were willing to take payroll up above 200m for Gerrit Cole, doesn't mean that's something they'd be willing to do for Ryu or anyone else.  They're already above where they've ever been and my guess is that they'll still add a bit.  

plus, when you're forced to pivot off your primary target, it doesn't mean you like any of the secondary options automatically.  

there are very rarely premier players available and we got one of them and almost got another.  

you've really got to look at where our true sweet spot might be.  over the next 5-6 years is it 2020 and 2021, because that's where adding a Ryu, Madbum or Keuchel really helps you.  But the aftermath of that is then you're stuck with back loaded money of 20+m per year to work around in 2022 and beyond when ohtani and fletcher are arb 2 and 1, buttrey is an arb 1, and guys like Canning, Sandoval, Adell and Marsh will be entering their 3 or 4th year of being in the majors.  

Granted, you don't punt the next two year but don't hurt yourself for the 3 years after that unless you know you're getting that premier/elite player.  

I agree with this concept of team building, but in 2016 and 2017, it was wait until 2018, and 2018 came will all sorts of promise and fell flat right in it's stupid face. So we though, just wait until 2019, there's no way EVERYONE can get hurt again, and then they did get hurt. One of them effing died. So in 2019, it was all good because the Angels were going to have this amazing winter and in 2020 they'd B-slap the Astros. Except the Winter hasn't been what many of us were hoping for.

So now we see posts saying, "Well Eppler.....farm system ....Adell and Marsh.....2021 and 2022...."

At some point, all you're doing is just kicking the can further down the road. That cycle had to come to an end. Yeah, the Angels are built to win in 2022 and beyond. But they're also built to win in 2020 and 2021 if Eppler can just acquire some starting pitching that is of better ilk than freakin Dylan Bundy and gosh darn Julio Teheran!

[Second Base]

Writing that just got me heated!!

[Docwaukee]

5 minutes ago, Second Base said:

I agree with this concept of team building, but in 2016 and 2017, it was wait until 2018, and 2018 came will all sorts of promise and fell flat right in it's stupid face. So we though, just wait until 2019, there's no way EVERYONE can get hurt again, and then they did get hurt. One of them effing died. So in 2019, it was all good because the Angels were going to have this amazing winter and in 2020 they'd B-slap the Astros. Except the Winter hasn't been what many of us were hoping for.

So now we see posts saying, "Well Eppler.....farm system ....Adell and Marsh.....2021 and 2022...."

At some point, all you're doing is just kicking the can further down the road. That cycle had to come to an end. Yeah, the Angels are built to win in 2022 and beyond. But they're also built to win in 2020 and 2021 if Eppler can just acquire some starting pitching that is of better ilk than freakin Dylan Bundy and gosh darn Julio Teheran!

you can't force it if you don't have the cards to win the pot Scotty.  You can be fired up all you want but thankfully our gm is calculated and calm.  Go back to 2016 or 2017 and lay out what you would have done to make those teams good enough to compete for a championship or even better right now.  Even with the benefit of knowing what's happened, you just can't do it.  

the cycle of kicking the can down the road can only end when you're good enough to stop kicking it.  The team is good but not good enough.  The farm system is good, but not good enough.  You're nuts if you think Ryu or any pitcher of similar caliber puts the team into a different category.  

[ettin]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

I like this .gif a lot.

[Second Base]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

you can't force it if you don't have the cards to win the pot Scotty.  You can be fired up all you want but thankfully our gm is calculated and calm.  Go back to 2016 or 2017 and lay out what you would have done to make those teams good enough to compete for a championship or even better right now.  Even with the benefit of knowing what's happened, you just can't do it.  

the cycle of kicking the can down the road can only end when you're good enough to stop kicking it.  The team is good but not good enough.  The farm system is good, but not good enough.  You're nuts if you think Ryu or any pitcher of similar caliber puts the team into a different category.  

You were right, all the way up until you said this team isn't good enough, and neither is the farm. The team can be good enough AND the farm can remain good enough. While it's difficult to accurately predict the Angels 2020 season, we CAN accurately take stock of the farm system in the event of a trade.

Losing Brandon Marsh would absolutely SUCK. But when you still have Jahmai Jones, Jordyn Adams, Orlando Martinez, D'Shawn Knowles, Trent Deveaux and Alex Ramirez, your OF depth chart is still more than fine for the next five years, even with the attrition rate of the minor leagues. Your still have Trout, Adell, Upton, Goodwin, Ward and Hermosillo on the c40 man roster alone. 

You can't even pretend to legitimize an argument that says the Angels OF depth chart without Brandon Marsh isn't good enough because you and I both know that argument is full of sh___. 

And as I said, it's difficult to accurately predict the 2020 season. We don't know if the Angels are good enough to win or not right now. But that question becomes a lot easier to answer if you're able to add a Jon Gray type of arm to the front of the rotation. 

Your approach is still just that, kicking the proverbial can down the road in hopes that someday you'll be good enough to bend down and pick it up. 

I say your future is what you've invested in, and Eppler HAS invested. Now bend your ass over (shut up @Lou and @tdawg87) and pick up the stupid can. Win. Open that window of contention now and keep investing in the farm system to perpetually keep it open. 

Edited January 2, 2020 by Second Base

[tdawg87]

[stormngt]

5 hours ago, Stradling said:

What’s more interesting is when you misquote me.  I never said we reached our budget.  So that makes the rest of your post something that is in your head, again.  I am not even pissed, you are incapable of pissing me off, I just think you have been ridiculous in this thread, so I called you out for it.  You and the “they are lying to us” (which is where the victim shit came from).  Happy New Year Storm, you beautiful human being.  

Nice to see you calmed down.

However you misread the "lying to us comment".  This is common when people only read the posters comment and not the comments the poster is referring to.

Someone posted that we have that had to dump Cozart money in order to sign Rendon.  O responded by saying "then we were lied to".

And I think its illogical to say we needed to dump Cozarts money in ou order to sign just one of Cole or Rendon.  

Eppler has not improved the starting rotation from 12 months ago.  However 12 months ago po people were optimistic of Harvey and Cahill. 

However I do believe our starters are on par with our 2002 lineup.  We do need a catcher or two and we should have money to spend.   If our bullpen takes it up a notch thus year we can still compete.   So let's end the conversation with optimism.

[Pancake Bear]

32 minutes ago, stormngt said:

Eppler has not improved the starting rotation from 12 months ago.  However 12 months ago po people were optimistic of Harvey and Cahill. 

This is such a strange take. And by strange, I mean pessimistic just for the sake of pessimism because it ignores every known fact.

Bundy/Teheran >>>>>>> Harvey/Cahill

You might say, "That's what we said last year". 

Look at Cahill's innings. This guy hadn't pitched over 120 innings in years. Harvey was always a high risk option. We hoped to get lucky with his upside. Things went the opposite direction.

Bundy and Teheran are the opposite: Low risk innings eaters.

We know exactly what we're getting from Bundy because he's been pretty consistent the last three years and he isn't so old that he's declining: 160-something innings and a 4.50 ERA or thereabouts. Given he's getting out of the AL East and a backwards and lousy team, might even make it to a low 4 ERA, but that's being optimistic.

Teheran isn't quite as clear given he's coming out of the NL, but he's been fairly consistent also. 175 innings the last two years, 185 the two before that. Ranged from a 3.80-4.50 ERA the last three years. If I'm handicapping, I take the high side of that. Still, two guys with 160-180 innings each at a 4.50 ERA is miles ahead of anything we had last year. 

So, yeah, you're wrong. 

Also, Ohtani is back. Innings will be limited, and Eppler didn't acquire him, sure, but he's still going to be pitching and he improves the rotation.

[mulwin444]

This is the best and deepest Angels team since 2015...they are set up for the future, have financial room to still make moves, have talent at every minor level and have a decently high 1st round pick still incoming.

I know people want every base covered (ha!) but it's impossible to account for every variable.  As it stands, they have a terrific offense, one of the best infield defenses in the league, youth, speed, some legit bullpen pieces, an average rotation with the potential for it to be better if some of the talented kids progress.  

There is a lot to like about this team even if people here didn't get the endorphin rush they were hoping for entering the offseason.