A Few Thoughts

[Griffey's Corner]

1 minute ago, stormngt said:

No, you just cant comprehend the business of the game.  Pujols is not getting released for CJ (never played a full year in the majors because always get demoted) Cron.  You treat Cron like he is an above average player.  He isn't an above average player.

If Pujols can give us average production from the 1b position I would be THRILLED. I know Cron is not a stud. You are comparing the average doable girl to the ugliest chick at the bar. And the funny thing is the ugly chick is the high maintenance expensive date.

[Dick B Back]

23 minutes ago, Griffey's Corner said:

Really. LOL.

 

Okay um this is so hard...... Vernon Wells had a great season before he came to the Angels..... there is your 1 example. I can give you a lot more.....LOL.

 

You do realize that 20 points on a batting average is like 1 hit a month? One ball that instead of going over the fence is a warning track out.

 

2. Yes let us do that. I hope Cron goes into a slump and hits .199..... and do you want to know why..... Because I love my angels. 

 

That .199 batting average sounds so familiar......Oh that's right that is what Valbuena hit last year.

Wells did not hit .281 somewhere else and come here and hit.261. He hit .273 in Toronto and came here and hit .218. Besides his numbers, you have yet to list any player that I was personally not tolerant with who went from .281 somewhere else and came here and hit .261.

I won’t wait for your answer because there is no such player.

Please continue on with making new friends here at AW.

[stormngt]

11 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

Pujols is making close to $30 mil so he's not sitting or being released.  Valbuena can play 1B and 3B while Cron is limited in all aspects of his game.  As soon as Ohtani committed to the Angels, Cron's days were numbered.  When you stop being an armchair GM and actually have the responsibility to eat a shitload of salary, and actually do it, I'll be impressed...otherwise these conjectures are meaningless.  

Somehow he doesn't understand this logic

[Griffey's Corner]

1 minute ago, stormngt said:

I will concede you were right if Cron has the stats your predicting at the end of the season.

And I seriously hope that I am wrong. you seem like a good guy. And I am sorry for being a dick.

[stormngt]

1 minute ago, Griffey's Corner said:

And I seriously hope that I am wrong. you seem like a good guy. And I am sorry for being a dick.

No apology needed, we all can be dicks.

[Griffey's Corner]

 

3 minutes ago, Dick B Back said:

Wells did not hit .281 somewhere else and come here and hit.261. He hit .273 in Toronto and came here and hit .218. Besides his numbers, you have yet to list any player that I was personally not tolerant with who went from .281 somewhere else and came here and hit .261.

I won’t wait for tour answer because there is no such player.

Please continue on with making new friends here at AW.

Well Dick.... the example I used better illustrated that a player coming here from a hitter's park to a pitcher's park could have have even more of a drop off than 20 points..... so yes I actually did prove my point. 

 

I am sorry that you do not understand Baseball101. i know it must be real hard for you to imagine that hitter's playing in ballparks like Toronto or Fenway play better than when they play at the big A.

 

And if you want the EXACT point on the batting averages than look no further than your buddy CJ Cron who before this season had a lifetime .261 batting average...... this year away from the big A he is hitting .281.

 

Why don't you go relax and watch the game or something. 

 

 

[Griffey's Corner]

4 minutes ago, stormngt said:

No apology needed, we all can be dicks.

Yes.... I noticed.

[mulwin444]

11 minutes ago, stormngt said:

Somehow he doesn't understand this logic

Seems to be a consistent theme...

[JustATroutFan]

1 hour ago, Griffey's Corner said:

beyond all that. Baseball is about playing with confidence and being relaxed and not looking over your shoulder all the time.

 

the Angels have always been jerking Cron around. Sitting on the bench or sending him back to the minors. Just tell him he is your guy and pencil him in the lineup everyday. That 6 for 6 game at fenway was not a fluke.

Remember when Cron got sent down last year to the minors just after hitting a grand slam? lol

[Griffey's Corner]

5 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

Seems to be a consistent theme...

The problem is rather than intelligently go over what I have said..... a handful of you guys would rather name call and post funny pictures. All that time and not one point of mine have any of you refuted.

[mulwin444]

3 minutes ago, Griffey's Corner said:

The problem is rather than intelligently go over what I have said..... a handful of you guys would rather name call and post funny pictures. All that time and not one point of mine have any of you refuted.

No...your points have been refuted, in this and other threads, people have offered logical alternatives and counterpoints...you just haven't agreed with them.  

[Lou]

16 minutes ago, Griffey's Corner said:

The problem is rather than intelligently go over what I have said..... a handful of you guys would rather name call and post funny pictures. All that time and not one point of mine have any of you refuted.

Oh no?

 

15 hours ago, JustATroutFan said:

Actually, Trout now has 8 stolen bases in 39 games this season.  He is on pace to get about 32 stolen bases this year. I don't know why but it just does not feel like he's on pace for a 30 stolen base season.

 

15 hours ago, SuperTroopers said:

Trout has the green light, he can steal at will.  

 

15 hours ago, SuperTroopers said:

I agree, I was right.  Thanks.  By the way new guy, I quoted someone else.  You asked me if I had a point, so it was you that started this interaction.  So if you don’t want to be engaged, then simply don’t ask me a question.  As for your nonsense about not being critical about anything, if you can’t see the handling of Ohtani as being specialized, I don’t know what to tell you.  He came over and he has kept his same routine he had in Japan.  Do you think that is coincidence?  There is a delicate balance to allow him to hit and to pitch, but that isn’t enough for so many people, they want more.  They are already getting more, but it still isn’t enough.  He hasn’t played the outfield since 2015.  Jeff Fletcher has even stated on this board he shows very little interest to do so.  But people want that, they want him to pinch hit the game before he starts.  Do I want him to, sure, am I going to bitch and complain and act like it isn’t a big deal, no, because I am capable of understanding what we are seeing.  

 

15 hours ago, Lou said:

Before today's games - 

May 2018:

Valbuena = .286. BA   .400/.429/.829

Cron =  .267 BA   .343/.267/.610

 

Luis hasn't been the problem 

 

9 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Because they needed someone to play CF and Chris Young is a career 95 OPS guy over 4600 at bats.  He's hit 187 HRs in his career, stolen 147 bases, and owns a positive dWAR for his career.  The three best comps for his career through his current age are Jose Cruz, Dave Henderson, and Alex Gordon.   He's been a good player.   Meanwhile the guy you are losing sleep over is a career 76 OPS+ hitter over 1600 at bats.   He's hit 12 HRs in his entire career, he's stolen 157 bases, but he's posted a negative dWAR for his career.  He had a nice open to his 2017 then cratered.  He posted a .289/.379/.461 batting line over his first 24 games, then went on hit .206/.224/.324 in the next 24 games...   

You'd be shocked to know that there were precious few here who wanted him retained...  For the most part people wanted him gone  It was indeed frustrating to see him sent packing because of the AP situation because if not for him there is no way they make that move.   The only positive here is that the bag of peanuts they got for him is looking like a pretty good player so far.  Luis Rengfino has put up a .311/.417/.455 batting line in High A so far and was second in the minors with 18 SBs.   He's got a ways to go but at least he's looking like he can play some SS and can swing the bat.

Really?  So on December 13th when they made that trade you wanted them to play Fletcher at 2B.  The same David Fletcher you had never seen play and who was coming off a 655 OPS season across two minor league levels?  Its not like he had a down year either, he had put up a .673 OPS the previous year.  Dude was looking like a UT IF before his massive leap forward this season.   This is revisionist history 101.

 

 

9 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Who on here has that sort of pull with the Angels that is keeping them from doing it?   You're banging on the people here...   It's the Angels front office and prior to them the Ham Fighters who have basically established how to handle him.   People act like what he is doing is oh so easy and common..   Why hasn't anyone done it since Babe Ruth?  Why did MLB teams stop doing this 100 years ago?   I think it's pretty telling that anytime you hear an opposing player or manager talk about Ohtani they all pretty much say how they don't know how he is able to do it...  

But hey, little league Dad on the Angels message board probably knows best.   

 

7 hours ago, Warfarin said:

A lot of us wanted him gone because as you astutely point out, the AP situation necessitated it, unfortunately.  In an ideal world, we could just accept the error of the Pujols contract, let him go, and kept Cron at DH/1B.  This is reality though, and teams don't just release guys with 100+ million left on their deal, so given that, jettisoning Cron in favor of Marte (which is, in truth, basically the choice we made) is what made the most sense, given Marte plays 1B/3B and Cron does not.

All that said too, if Rengfino actually tuns out to be a pretty decent middle infielder, then "we win" the proverbial trade, as those players are worth quite a bit more than 1B/DHs.

I know people are pissed after losing these two games to the Twins (and they should be, because the Twins are a significant wild card threat - don't let their record fool you), but we've got a great team overall and we're heading in the right direction.  

 

7 hours ago, Warfarin said:

Yeah, and unfortunately, it'll continue to be that way for a bit.  I do wonder if perhaps in, say, two years (when there's two remaining years of Pujols' deal), we could find a way to gracefully let him go and have him "medically retire" so that he still earns his remaining salary and we can just move on.

Production aside, I'd love to gain an extra roster spot and fill it with someone who has more versatility than just 1B/DH.  Until then though, we are unfortunately stuck.

 

As others have pointed out, for whatever reason, you just refuse to acknowledge it. 

 

[Blarg]

58 minutes ago, stormngt said:

No apology needed, we all can be dicks.

@Dick B Back and @Dick Enberg I'm sure you two have something to say about this. 

[Dick B Back]

3 minutes ago, Blarg said:

@Dick B Back and @Dick Enberg I'm sure you two have something to say about this. 

There is a difference between being a Dick and being a dick.

[Lou]

If you're really interested to know why you receive smartass responses and pics, look no further than the manner in which you respond to the members here:

 

2 hours ago, Griffey's Corner said:

Actually none of your numbers are right. That's a little embarrassing..... a casual Angels fan should know that Valbuena is not hitting .286.

 

2 hours ago, Griffey's Corner said:

Coming from the guy who said Shohei should not hit the day before he pitches because the opposing pitcher might break his hand.... brilliant logic!

 

1 hour ago, Griffey's Corner said:

Really. LOL.

Okay um this is so hard...... Vernon Wells had a great season before he came to the Angels..... there is your 1 example. I can give you a lot more.....LOL.

 

1 hour ago, Griffey's Corner said:

Again for the challenged.....

 

1 hour ago, Griffey's Corner said:

I am sorry that you do not understand Baseball101. i know it must be real hard for you to imagine

Why don't you go relax and watch the game or something. 

 

If I had to venture a guess, you'll continue to receive similar messages going forward if you continue this pattern of response.

Just a hunch, mind you. 

Edited May 13, 2018 by Lou

[Dick B Back]

I don’t understand Baseball101 and I’ve been schooled so hard I started to cry, so now I’m not going to reply to any of his posts anymore because I’m afraid he’ll school me again.

You all don’t know how upset I am... bein’ schooled and all.

[Lou]

2 hours ago, Griffey's Corner said:

Coming from the guy who said Shohei should not hit the day before he pitches because the opposing pitcher might break his hand.... brilliant logic!

 

there will be a point when it happens sooner rather than later. They are not going to risk losing there jobs because they would rather be fired than Pujols having a bruised ego.

Robinson Cano says hi 

[ettin]

21 hours ago, Griffey's Corner said:

Point #1....So as I was saying last week I am not necessarily advocating Calhoun start dropping down all these bunts..... but whatever way possible he needs to keep the defense honest and spray the ball using the whole field. Bunting was just one idea to facilitate breaking the radical shift they play on him. As I mentioned last week I would prefer a strikeout vs. these weak rolled over ground balls.

Yes clearly Calhoun has a problem. Dropping a bunt once in a while is good to keep the defense from just auto-shifting him but he is a Major League player and needs to get his swing back in order. He has never had this problem before in my recollection so it is just a difficult spell he is going through. He'll pull out of it eventually he has too much talent.

Point #2.... Eric Young Jr. played very well last year.... he was a spark plug.... when Trout went down with an injury he helped keep our season alive. He can steal bases & do some other nice things. He also plays with a lot of emotion.... which I think is good for a baseball team. He cares about winning.

Okay I totally like Young Jr. myself but there is a consistently good reason he has never made it as a regular Major League player and there is a considerably high probability it is because every team he has been with evaluated him as a 4th outfield type. I'm leaning with the 5 other teams that determined he wasn't regular-MLB caliber. Great story, great guy and he has decent on-base skills so he is not nothing for sure but he is a reserve player.

Point #3.... I have no idea why they signed Chris Young. 

They brought him on because he can play the 4th outfielder role and Eppler wanted a guy who could hit against LHP (119 wRC+ career, 111 wRC+ over last 3 calendar years). However he too has developed a case of Calhoun-itis but that may be due primarily to the lack of at-bats he is receiving. You can never have too much depth and Eppler realized that he could bring Young Jr. back on a Minor League deal (not to mention Young Jr. seems to favor the Angels as a team) and sign Young to be the backup at the MLB level. Depth is absolutely crucial to a Major League teams season and I for one appreciate that Eppler spent the money to deepen the team even though it clearly hasn't been a bright spot for us.

Point #4... It's bad enough the Angels are on the hook for the Pujols & Valbuena salaries.... this year I am approximating around $40,000,000. But you are making a bad decision even worse when you jettison your first round pick CJ Cron who you have spent so much time & resources in developing and improving his defense. I do not think CJ Cron is a world beater but when the season started I predicted.... not on this board that he would hit .283 and hit 32 HR's. Which at least is giving you average production. We gave up CJ for a bag of peanuts.... even though between the 3 he is the best player.... because of the salaries.... that is so messed up.

C.J. Cron had essentially 3 1/2 full seasons of 1B/DH duty and he couldn't consistently produce at the Major League level. At some point you have to move on from a player and it feels like the Angels did this at the right time, particularly considering the market factors for 1B/DH types in play the last two years. They got something in Renfigo (a more athletic player who is tearing up the Minors in 2018) so it wasn't a bag of peanuts, that remark is rather dismissive of the prospect's obvious skill and ability. In fact it was an appropriate return for the small amount of excess value that Cron's remaining years of control and production should have commanded.

You can get upset about salaries all you want but Arte Moreno has consistently funded team payroll at a very high level for as long as he has owned the team. He has shown that he does not want to exceed the Luxury Tax unless it is an all-in push that makes a lot of financial sense. Keeping Cron would have been a waste of resources for a marginal player that we had a replacement for.

Point #5..... I wanted Fletcher to start at 2b and use the money saved to sign some bullpen help.... instead we added Kinsler and whatever he is making? I am guessing around $10,000,000? And I am not a Kinsler basher... I just think the money could have been spent better elsewhere.

If you have not noticed, Eppler places a lot of value on team defense, particularly up-the-middle defense. Ian Kinsler may not be the player he once was but he has a 1:1 BB/K ratio and has had a considerable amount of bad luck with balls in play. His defense is still substantial and he represented an easy buy on the trade market to fill a position of need. All of Eppler's gambles will not pay off but I still don't think we have seen Kinsler's best yet this season. There were certainly other 2B options (and in fact Cozart was going to play there) and 3B options but Eppler has to manage the budget and so he picked up a veteran who has proven himself consistently over many years.

Point #6A.... Quit playing scared to win.... There is NO reason Shohei cannot DH more.... or at least pinch hit with the game on the line instead of sending up less than desirables. Batting once in a game is less tiring than having sex at night..... are the Angels regulating his sex the night before he pitches? I doubt it.... so that being the case let him play.... Bad News Bears reference there.

Ohtani had an injection in his elbow ligament prior to the Angels acquiring him. This is a documented fact. If you want to gamble by putting him in situations where he could stress it more you are taking a greater chance that Shohei injures himself. The Angels want him to be comfortable and this current situation mirrors his routines from Japan that he, the player, is comfortable with. I am certain that the Angels have run these risk models (elbow injuries combined with production and financial curves) and have determined that there is a balance to be made with pushing Ohtani, clearly a gifted athlete, too far. Frankly I don't see the Angels being scared at all, they are making well-informed decisions that align with the wishes of the player himself. Shohei is a valuable asset and if he DH's one too many times and hurts himself the Angels will look like fools and then some will be complaining about why the team pushed him so hard. I am with Eppler all the way on this one and you should be too.

Point #6B.... Let or tell Trout to steal..... what is his track record this year on stolen bases? 90%? If that gives you the win.... than do not manage scared.

The reason Trout is doing so well on the bases is because he IS being so selective. If he was running more they would be expecting it more and you would see that SB% success rate fall to somewhere in the mid-70% range more than likely. Let Mike pick his spots and be more successful, it makes more sense for him and the team.

Some of this falls on Mr. Scioscia.... & I say that respectfully I am sure when it comes to baseball he is a frickin genius..... But if someone with a lot less knowledge of the game can see these things.... shouldn't he? 

At this point I am going to tell you that Mike Scioscia has more combined knowledge than this entire board about the game of baseball. The ones here with a lot less knowledge are not even close to being experts. You can armchair manage all you want but unless you have the years of experience at the Major League level in coaching you are NOT a well-informed baseball person, period. Not everything goes to plan, particularly in baseball.... I mean every hitter goes up to the plate wanting to keep a 1.000 batting average but even the best ones in the game can barely keep it over .300 in any one season. Baseball is a game of failure and the fans love to second-guess the well-informed decisions that the coaches and players make on the field every game. They play baseball full-time we just sit on our asses watching the games part-time in a lot of cases.

Thank you all for taking the time to read this.... I guess I  am just really pissed that they lose these games that I feel like are so winnable.

I understand your frustration. Losing those first two games to the Twins the way we did was painful. However we still have a solid record so far and we have decent momentum. We have good components on this team, including what are probably the two best players in the game of baseball in Trout and Ohtani with a solid supporting cast of players and pitchers. The odds are leaning that we will be in a good position come the trade deadline.

 

21 hours ago, Griffey's Corner said:

Sorry forgot Point #7..... If you are a MLB player and you do not know how to bunt than you should not be on the roster...... EVERYBODY should know that skill because at some point you may be called upon in Game 7 of the World Series to do it. And I do not want to hear about how hard bunting is..... it is a lot easier to bunt a 95 mph fastball..... than to take a stride and full swing and try and hit the ball..... all these MLB players can hit the ball..... well except for the pitchers..... but than again that is why they are bunting all the time..... because it is a much easier skill set to learn.

Bunting is not an action that a professional Major League hitter should be doing that often. It's really that simple. These guys are well conditioned and strong athletes that can hit balls with high exit velocity that produce hits a lot more often than a bunt will. Only the fastest guys can successfully pull of bunts more often and even they are loathe to do it too often because it then becomes a predictable play. Bunting is not the problem here: https://baseballwithr.wordpress.com/2016/04/04/exploring-2015-bunts/

Thank you.

 

[Angel Oracle]

22 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

I'm pretty pissed too. We should be destroying this team. 25 LOB is pathetic. 

Pujols & Calhoun and Valnobuena are no bueno.

Fixed, Valnobuena’s leaving the bases loaded Friday night and failing to blow the game open likely led to burning out Anderson for the rest of the series and losing two straight games.

Rogers has sucked this season, but the Halos made him look like the Padres’ Hand in this series.

Back on the OP’s Cron comment, Rengifo has played like anything but fodder so far at I.E.   By 2020, that could look like a solid trade.

[ten ocho recon scout]

16 hours ago, CubsFan said:

Well we do eat Lasagna.  

But its from Olive Garden, so your half italian friends and obnoxious friend who went to Italy once tells you its not real lasagna.

[stormngt]

49 minutes ago, ettin said:

At this point I am going to tell you that Mike Scioscia has more combined knowledge than this entire board about the game of baseball. The ones here with a lot less knowledge are not even close to being experts. You can armchair manage all you want but unless you have the years of experience at the Major League level in coaching you are NOT a well-informed baseball person, period. Not everything goes to plan, particularly in baseball.... I mean every hitter goes up to the plate wanting to keep a 1.000 batting average but even the best ones in the game can barely keep it over .300 in any one season. Baseball is a game of failure and the fans love to second-guess the well-informed decisions that the coaches and players make on the field every game. They play baseball full-time we just sit on our asseswatching the games part-time in a lot of cases.

 

Well said!!!!!!!!

[Tank]

even simon doesn't like how this thread has gone.

[Lou]

2 hours ago, ettin said:

At this point I am going to tell you that Mike Scioscia has more combined knowledge than this entire board about the game of baseball. The ones here with a lot less knowledge are not even close to being experts. You can armchair manage all you want but unless you have the years of experience at the Major League level in coaching you are NOT a well-informed baseball person, period. 

Edited May 14, 2018 by Lou

[Lou]

1 hour ago, BackUpTheTruck said:

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" - Albert Einstein.  That's how I feel about Kole Calhoun right about now.

[moccasin]

When it comes to the usage of Ohtani, nobody will ever be satisfied. Every single decision made on him has been heavily criticized, because with Ohtani, every way the imagination can come up with seems possible.

Although there are many ideas, you can divide those usage plan arguments into two. The pitcher first approach, and the hitter first approach. And I want to stress that currently, he needs to be a pitcher first in order to continue succeeding at being a two-way player.

I've said this a few times on this board, even before he came to the Angels, that Ohtani is much more talented as hitter. It comes natural to him; some pitchers are good at hitting, but pitchers don't drive the ball the other way, and hit opposite field bombs like him. Also, even the best hitters struggle to adapt to different leagues. The jump from AAA to the bigs is a huge change that requires an adjustment period, a lot of hitters struggle just changing from the NL to the AL. If you acknowledge that he he is switching countries, with different strike zones and equipment, you would understand that his talent hitting the ball is just unreal and mind boggling. 

But pitching is a lot more challenging for him. As far as I know, in Japan, he spent most of his practice time throwing the ball, not hitting it. Yes, he throws hard, and that comes naturally for him. But everything else requires work. He needs to check and work on his mechanics and release points all the time, because command is not his strength. His fastball was said to be relatively straight, so he is still trying to improve that. He also needs to polish his breaking ball, and take extensive time scouting hitters, as well.

So this is why he needs to be a starter. He needs to know when he's pitching, and he needs extensive time to prepare for his starts. I'm not saying the Angels will lose value if they put him in the pen. The added PAs may be worth it. But Ohtani will not want to, because soon his value as a hitter will become vastly larger than as a pitcher, and it will become very easy for the team to make him focus on hitting.

Ohtani wants to be a two-way player, and that's why he had all those meetings before signing, and eventually chose the Angels.